Re: Under the radar? Be afraid, (some) be VERY afraid!
 

It is definitely a moment of truth for expats that will have overstayed their welcome.

But I don’t think that the Spanish government will want to be seen to target such expats in a malicious way.

More likely some such expat is going to inadvertently come to the attention of the police and I guess that if they are deemed to be illegal, they will be dealt with in like with the normal procedure, whatever that is… Anyone know???

Get shoved on a plane and told to bog off and not come back..?

:britflag:

Re: Under the radar? Be afraid, (some) be VERY afraid!
 

Normally, when dealing with Western illegal travellers/overstayers, in most Schengen states you are given a few days or a week to leave voluntarily, having been told next time to apply for a proper visa. If you don't, then they may be forced to take a tough line and arrest and deport you.

Re: Under the radar? Be afraid, (some) be VERY afraid!
 

Those who have been long term overstayers have had almost 4.5 years to regularise their position, so the tough line seems appropriate.

Re: Under the radar? Be afraid, (some) be VERY afraid!
 

I have a feeling both the Spanish and UK governments are probably disappointed with some of the headlines that some of the UK press has generated and some of the appalling inaccurate reporting completely confusing residents/non-residents/tourists rights to live/enter Spain.

Today the UK Embassy Madrid has issued this press release:-An update for UK Nationals

From 1 January, UK Nationals have been able to spend 90 days out of every 180 within the Schengen area for tourism or other specific purposes, such as business meetings, without needing a visa. Any stays beyond the 90 days will be dependent on Spain’s visa and immigration rules and any UK Nationals who would like to discuss extending their stay should contact their local extranjería office or call 060.

All foreign nationals intending to stay in Spain for longer than three months have always been obliged to register for residency – whatever their nationality. Therefore if you arrived in Spain before 1 January you must take steps to become resident if you consider your home to be here. Otherwise, you should be arranging to return to the UK. If you are trying to become resident and are in the process of registering or appealing against your application having been rejected, the 90-day rule does not apply to you.

HMA Hugh Elliott said: “I’m aware that many second home owners are concerned about overstaying as we reach 31 March. The Spanish Government has been clear that it will take a pragmatic approach to anyone who is stuck in Spain due to circumstances beyond their control, so I don’t want people to be overly worried on that count. However, if people do not intend to become resident here in Spain and see the UK as their base, we do expect them to take steps to return to the UK as soon as they can.”

A Spanish Ministry of Inclusion spokesperson said: “The Spanish Government is working to provide maximum legal certainty for British citizens resident in Spain. Throughout the negotiations, the issue of citizens’ rights has been, and remains, one of the main priorities. Spain is the country of residence of the largest community of UK nationals in the EU.

“The Spanish Government has no plans to deport British citizens who have made Spain their home and, for this reason, Spain has been one of the first EU countries to establish a documentation procedure under the Withdrawal Agreement, which consists of a declaratory system to apply for the new residence permit (TIE). We remind British citizens that, although there is no time limit, it is important to make this application as soon as possible as, among other things, it will facilitate the administrative processing and the crossing of the external borders of the European Union.”

If you are in the UK and considering travelling to Spain or are in Spain and have friends or family wanting to visit, you should be aware of the continuing travel restrictions on both leaving the UK and entering Spain. UK Nationals must make sure that they meet both the requirements to leave the UK and those to enter Spain, bearing in mind that they are not the same. From 30 March, entry to Spain will only be granted to those passengers who can demonstrate that their journey is essential, as well as to those who are already legally resident in Spain. Entering merely to visit, even if you have a second home here, is not a justified reason for entry. You may be questioned on arrival by Spanish border authorities to ensure you meet the entry requirements and they will only grant entry if they are satisfied that your journey to Spain is essential and reserve the right to deny passage. Ultimately, the decision on whether to grant entry into Spain is made by Spanish border officials as set out in our Travel Advice. For the latest information and links to the restrictions on leaving the UK and entering Spain, we advise people to visit our Travel Advice page on gov.uk and sign up for alerts, so that they are notified of any changes: https://www.gov.uk/foreign-travel-advice/spain

Re: Under the radar? Be afraid, (some) be VERY afraid!
 

In other words just say you over stayed just to covid then everything will be honkey dorey. What people forget is a lot of these rules were in place before brexit it’s just the Spanish very rarely enforced them. I could understand Spain cracking down on overstayers if they were a burden on Spanish society but most are not. They are the one paying Spanish people to live in their properties and paying Spanish bars and restaurants to eat and drink. It makes no sense for the Spanish to even attempt to try it post Covid.

Re: Under the radar? Be afraid, (some) be VERY afraid!
 

I think you exaggerate the contribution expats make to GDP.

:thumbdown:

Re: Under the radar? Be afraid, (some) be VERY afraid!
 

They might let people leave a few days late without any black mark against their name (at least until ETIAS automates everything) but I'm pretty sure they won't let it turn into a cachondeo.

Re: Under the radar? Be afraid, (some) be VERY afraid!
 

I seem to remember it was something started by Cameron around 2015?

Re: Under the radar? Be afraid, (some) be VERY afraid!
 

I agree but at the same time disagree.

Agree, it is not a huge contribution to the GDP, but at a local level in can hit hard at businesses that cater for the expat market.

Re: Under the radar? Be afraid, (some) be VERY afraid!
 

And that expat market would have remained stable had those who chose not to register actually complied with the law and registered.

I can appreciate that the local economy will lose some trade, but I suspect they were more aware than those Brits who failed to register.

Re: Under the radar? Be afraid, (some) be VERY afraid!
 

Simple fact is had the people who lived under the radar done things correctly by obtaining residencia, then everyone would have been winners. The Spanish government would have gained from getting the tax they were due, local economy would gain from the same spending they would make either way and they would gain by being legal and allowed to stay with same perks as pre Brexit. I have no sympathy for such people they played the game they chose and must now accept the consequences.

Re: Under the radar? Be afraid, (some) be VERY afraid!
 

Yup. And some of the same people wanting sympathy for the locals are the ones who are screwing the locals over by not legalising their residency when they should have, even after constant reminders.

Re: Under the radar? Be afraid, (some) be VERY afraid!
 

Whilst I generally agree with the above there are also those who could not meet even the old criteria.
That they were tolerated by the authorities encouraged them and, in some sense, who could blame them? I know that I'd rather spend my pension on renting, for example, a caravan in Benidorm not a council flat in Blackburn. I don't think that you hear so much from them.
Those fly by nights running businesses, doing "airport runs" and the other activities have none of my sympathy and deserve all that's coming

Re: Under the radar? Be afraid, (some) be VERY afraid!
 

I accept your comment but unless you can meet your basic obligations you shouldn't be here or if you are and the wheel comes off so to speak then such people have to accept the outcome rather than bleating to the press looking for a sympathetic view from authorities. No matter what one says what was coming wasn't hidden certainly over the last 12 or 18 months. Yes I used to hear people here say it won't happen we won't leave. However writing was on the wall certainly once Boris took the reigns.

Re: Under the radar? Be afraid, (some) be VERY afraid!
 

I also think Spain did make it simple to comply with what was required. Not sure how other countries dealt with it? Certainly it was both more straightforward for those of us living legally in Spain to remain and less costly than for EU citizens to remain in the UK from what I've read. Plus I doubt in the UK there would be much sympathy shown for EU citizens that couldn't meet the UK's criteria to stay.
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Re: Under the radar? Be afraid, (some) be VERY afraid!
 

Spain? corruption and money talks...

Re: Under the radar? Be afraid, (some) be VERY afraid!
 

Re: Under the radar? Be afraid, (some) be VERY afraid!
 

Do you have a link for this?

Re: Under the radar? Be afraid, (some) be VERY afraid!
 

yep. Wealthy undocumented expats will definitely find a way in a place like Spain where money talks. Tbh I hope they do send all the dregs and idiots that are in Spain causing constant headaches in areas like Marbella. Brexit will help Spain in that sense. Britain has also been doing the same with undocumented Europeans which just come to Britain to traffic drugs. London is fully controlled by the Albanian mafia. They used to get dodgy Italian passports by paying back handers so they could reside in the UK. Can’t see those Italian papers working anymore lol.

Re: Under the radar? Be afraid, (some) be VERY afraid!
 

How accurate this is I don't know as it is the Mirror, I like the bit where it says they had armed police present, errr fairly normal to have police at the airport and all Spanish police are armed, but let's make it sound more dramatic than it is. Thing is it looks like they do intend to impose the rules and where easier than at the airport. Another point mentioned in the article that doesn't ring true to me is "People with letters telling them to collect their residency cards were denied entry". However its been discussed on a number of threads that when you apply for a TIE or an exchange to TIE you get no letter or information sent telling you the card is ready for collection? Rather they either tell you at time of application when to make an appointment to collect or wait at least 45 days to do that.
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-new...spain-23832596

Re: Under the radar? Be afraid, (some) be VERY afraid!
 

Re: Under the radar? Be afraid, (some) be VERY afraid!
 

https://www.express.co.uk/news/polit...exit-documents

Apparently it's in The Times as well.

Re: Under the radar? Be afraid, (some) be VERY afraid!
 

You can have a different ethnicity and still have been born in Britain, and therefore British.

Re: Under the radar? Be afraid, (some) be VERY afraid!
 

With ref to collecting your TIE, at the fingerprint appointment (at least in Alicante) they staple a card telling you when to go and collect your TIE, ours is 10 weeks from the first appointment, our neighbour had seven weeks on his paperwork. (but our solicitor said they could check when the batch we were in was complete so we wouldn't waste a trip).

So Im assuming you 'could' use this to get back to Spain. A solicitors letter and contact might be OK.

What really surprises me, is the fact that some of these people are even getting to Spain in the first place.
And how some of them were 'not aware' that they should not be travelling.

My main question in all this would be. If you arrive at Alicante and are immediately sent back, do you have to go into quarantine and take the two covid tests? Or are you free to just go back to your daily life safe in the knowledge that you are now a laughing stock.
Would be funny to not get your holiday but end up in a hotel back in the Uk at a ridiculous cost.

Re: Under the radar? Be afraid, (some) be VERY afraid!
 

OK that's different to here in Malaga region they tell you verbally for me they said make an appointment to collect in 50 days time. The Cita site when you make the appointment says if you haven't been told when to make an appointment then ensure 45 days have elapsed before making the appointment. Also if you had the card you mention surely you would have the paperwork showing you had made the application? Also how have they actually been travelling during the period of no travel back and forth to the UK imposed by both countries. To me it doesn't add up and at the end of the day its up to the Spanish officials just as in UK its down to UK officials.

Re: Under the radar? Be afraid, (some) be VERY afraid!
 

Why did the British nationals even attempt to travel to Spain without a TIE card. Surly the logical thing to do would have been to wait a day or two extra for when Spain lifts its travel ban to British citizens.

Re: Under the radar? Be afraid, (some) be VERY afraid!
 

Even funnier to also be handed a £5,000 fine for leaving the country without a valid reason!

Who's policing that anyway, surely not Ryanair checkin staff?

EDIT:

Just spotted this on El Pais, the latest from the British Embassy in Madrid.

"The embassy said that the new list of acceptable documents has been sent to airlines and other travel operators to ensure that passengers are not denied boarding due to confusion over this issue."

For proof of residence it says: (my bold)

• Residence card issued under Article 18.4 of the Withdrawal Agreement (the TIE – Tarjeta de Identidad de Extranjero)
• Temporary or permanent EU residence certificate (Certificado de Registro de Ciudadanos de la Unión)
• Receipt of application for the TIE (Resguardo de presentación de la solicitud de la tarjeta de residencia)
• Confirmation of the positive outcome of your residence application (Resolución favorable por la que se concede la tarjeta de residencia)
• In the absence of any of the above documents, other documents that credibly evidence your legal residence in Spain before January 1, 2021, such as a padrón certificate (issued by your town hall), a work contract, a rental contract, or proof of property purchase
• In the case of students, documentation that demonstrates enrolment in an on-site or in-person course and proof of accommodation"

Since when did any of those highlighted documents credibly evidence residence legal or otherwise?





























'
:

"

Re: Under the radar? Be afraid, (some) be VERY afraid!
 

I wonder if a British passport holder who is married to a Spanish national, would be allowed in before the blanket restrictions are lifted.
The person in question has been a Uk resident for over 4 years, due to having aged parents in the UK, it was not possible to be a resident in Spain and is actually still not possible to become resident.
There are some issues that need sorting out for the couple due to having a business in Spain. Would this senario be acceptable to gain entry to spain, to seek legal help and to spend some time with their spouse?

Re: Under the radar? Be afraid, (some) be VERY afraid!
 

Do they hold a Spanish residence card? Based on the above, it's unlikely.

Re: Under the radar? Be afraid, (some) be VERY afraid!
 

the person in question gave up spanish residency about 4 years ago, otherwise there wouldn't have been any national health cover in the UK, should the need arise.
the couple in question are not legally separated, they are very much still a married couple, but circumstances keep them apart, and will continue to do so for the foreseeable future.

Re: Under the radar? Be afraid, (some) be VERY afraid!
 

They'll likely need a Spanish visit visa, which as it's not essential travel or returning to their home, isn't likely to be granted anytime soon.

Also, there are restrictions as to why anyone can leave the UK at present, including travelling to an air or sea port for the purposes of travel, so they'd be out of luck there too.

Re: Under the radar? Be afraid, (some) be VERY afraid!
 

one spouse is Spanish and lives in Spain, they have been married for well over 25 years, the other is British and is a UK resident, who needs to get to Spain, to sort out paperwork due to the death of a sibling a few months ago.

Does also having an immediate family member in Spain (spouse) help gain entry to spain for a non resident?

Re: Under the radar? Be afraid, (some) be VERY afraid!
 

Spain lays down permitted categories of people allowed to enter, other than EU and Schengen area citizens:

• People traveling for imperative family reasons who can demonstrate an essential need to travel.

All of the circumstances above must be justified by documentary evidence. You should be aware that you may be questioned on arrival by Spanish border authorities to ensure you meet the entry requirements. Spanish border authorities will only grant entry if they are satisfied that your journey to Spain is essential and reserve the right to deny passage.'
Entry requirements - Spain travel advice - GOV.UK (www.gov.uk)

So the UK citizen will need documentary evidence to travel, such as the sibling's death certificate, and a letter from lawyer in Spain why their presence is essential. The fact they have a spouse in Spain may be immaterial.

Re: Under the radar? Be afraid, (some) be VERY afraid!
 

The Spanish consolute web page says yes, as long as the relevant documentation can be shown at the border (if they were married in Britain I'm not sure if the marriage certificate has to be accompanied with a Spanish translation but it might help):

Requisitos de entrada en España

As for fulfilling British exit conditions... maybe they could go to visit an estate agents? Family reunion is not one of the permitted exit conditions.

The death of a sibling comes under "H) people who are travelling for essential and justified family matters". Justified meaning being able to show paperwork. That is a permitted British exit condition and Spanish entry condition.

Re: Under the radar? Be afraid, (some) be VERY afraid!
 

That sounds good news, all the paperwork can be sent over, the business side of things is important as both siblings were part owners of a successful business, and its imperative that the legal aspect is sorted out, the business employs quite a large number of people.

This is posted on ryanair website, an updated version following passengers being refused entry when arriving at border control Spain.1. Passengers are not allowed to enter Spain.

This does not apply to:

- Nationals and residents of Spain;

- Passengers returning via Spain to their place of residency in Andorra, Austria, Belgium, Bulgaria, Croatia, Cyprus, Czechia, Denmark, Estonia, Finland, France, Germany, Greece, Hungary, Iceland, Ireland (Rep.), Italy, Latvia, Liechtenstein, Lithuania, Luxembourg, Malta, Netherlands, Norway, Poland, Portugal, Romania, Slovakia, Slovenia, Spain, Sweden or Switzerland;

- Passengers with a long-term visa issued by a Schengen Member State, returning via Spain to their country of residence;

- Immediate family members of a national of Spain traveling together or traveling to join the national of Spain;

- Healthcare or elderly care professionals in the performance of their duties;

- Transport of goods personnel;

- Diplomats, international organizations, military personnel and members of humanitarian organizations in the performance of their duties;

- People traveling for imperative family reasons duly accredited;

- Persons who document reasons of force majeure or situation of need, or whose entry is permitted for humanitarian reasons.

2. Passengers are required to self-quarantine for 14 days.

- This does not apply to transport of goods personnel.

- This does not apply to healthcare professionals in the performance of their duties if they have not been in contact with patients of Coronavirus (COVID-19).

3. A completed Public Health Passenger Locator Form must be presented upon arrival.

4. Passengers can only land at Alicante (ALC), Barcelona (BCN), Fuerteventura (FUE), Gran Canaria (LPA), Ibiza (IBZ), Madrid (MAD), Malaga (ADP), Menorca(MAH), Lanzarote (ACE), Palma de Mallorca (PMI), Sevilla (SVQ), Tenerife-Sur (TFS) or Valencia (VLC).

- This does not apply to emergency, humanitarian or medical flights and technical stops.

it seems at the moment, having an immediate family who is a Spanish national does help to gain entry. Although some info can be misleading and subject to change at any given moment.

Re: Under the radar? Be afraid, (some) be VERY afraid!
 

The EU should give some sort of amnesty to all British citizens who were in the country by 31.12.2020 just like we gave over 5 million ILR to any EU citizens who applied for it without checking if they ever paid tax or NI or claimed benefits.

Re: Under the radar? Be afraid, (some) be VERY afraid!
 

British citizens in the EU just need to prove residency, exactly the same as EU citizens the UK. So checks should have been made by the British government before granting (pre-)settled status (not ILR) to EU citizens.

British citizens who own a house in the EU but work in the UK and come and go as they please are not going to be able to prove residency, exactly the same for EU citizens if it were the other way around.

A great many EU citizens in the UK who have been there for more than five years were incorrectly given pre-settled status.

Re: Under the radar? Be afraid, (some) be VERY afraid!
 

Re: Under the radar? Be afraid, (some) be VERY afraid!
 

​​​​​​Bu t they did by telling such people to legalise their situation by obtaining residency, there was plenty of warning of how to do that and consequences if you didn't. It strikes me that the brexit mantra take back control of our borders should only apply to British borders and all other countries are expected to allow the British to come, go and live wherever as they wish because they are special people being British. It would now seem to be dawning on people that isn't the case.
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Re: Under the radar? Be afraid, (some) be VERY afraid!