steviedeluxe

Looking like the UK are to follow the Spanish example and demand stricter residency requirements for would-be migrants. Surely a good thing?

http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2...itain-id-cards

Domino

not so sure - it may well fall foul of the EU's fluffy bunnies interpretations of freee movement within the Union, and that is the current worry at the moment with all the IA countries taking a step up to full membership.

I spent many years in the RN with an identity card, various jobs after that required me to have one, so I am one of those who believes we need an ID card, just not the super-dooper do all thing that was floated by a previous government...

I have to laugh at those who say an ID card will infringe their human rights whilst jumping to the front of the queue for a passport, a driving licence with photo (taken from the passport site!!) and their bus pass id card.

As to those from outside the EU, we have to make it plain to them all that we are not the providers of benefits and housing and so on for the world - only for the EU.

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Pocaloca

Well Spain is doing it now and not a fluffy bunny in sight as far as I can see. It makes sense.

But it has to apply to all EU citizens, not just E. Europeans. So lots more bureaucracy for people with genuine jobs to go to.

Maybe it will also be applied to British expats returning to UK ???

Domino

Nope, there is a rarely thing discussed known as Birth Right.
http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/br...yingterritory/
although that uses the word "citizen" due to the more relaxed fluffy bunny definitions used nowadays.

why else do you find that many who claim (for their own purposes) to be British also hold a passport for the country of their parents.
I know of one guy who killed himself in an accident whose body was "flown home" to an Indian sub-continent country even though he had been born in the UK.

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Lynn R

I think it's a very sensible idea but cannot see how they could possibly move fast enough to get it introduced before the end of this year when the potential influx of new migrants from Bulgaria and Romania could happen. I never had any problem with the idea of carrying an ID card when the previous Government tried to introduce it, as I recall it was the anti-EU brigade as much as anyone who objected to the idea, because they didn't want to be "dictated to by Brussels".

Pocaloca

I wouldn't object to an ID card. I WOULD object to having to pay a lot of money for it.

Jon-Bxl

I thought the UK ID card debate was a dead one - too expensive?

I would not 'vote' for it either in the UK..... not sure what the real benefits are. Where I live in Belgium we are all required to have one and I don't think its worth the money and there is a serious issue/possibility of ID theft too.

Jon

Domino

as ID theft is decades, nay, centuries old then that is a rather lame excuse.
many people in the UK become "selected" for no apparent reason and spend years sorting it out. But far far more never have any problems.

the UK ID was too expensive because some numptie sitting in an office in Whitehall decided it might as well be used like Spain's medical card and hold information on blood group, medical problems etc etc. Then Revenue decided it could be used by them and all of a sudden everyone was on the band waggon. The cost rocketed and it just became a major millstone.

But if people are running round with 2 or 3 bank cards, driving licence, bus pass if over 60, a couple of store credit cards, store loyalty cards etc etc so there is no space in the purse/wallet for any money, then what is the problem with having a simple ID card. My RN one did nothing but prove who I was - infact it was an IDentity Card. Plain and simple.

Perhaps the debate should be resurrected..............
Better still lets have a Government with balls and introduce it. Denial of services/benefits without the ID will prove to be a way of overcoming the deniers. Tosh about the Govt knowing who, where, when never stopped those who refuse to fill in census or electoral roll from claiming their benefits.

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Pocaloca

Well it was dead, but if you look at the first post in this thread, you'll see the idea appears to be coming back to life?

My Spanish driving licence works fine as a photo ID card. It has my NIE on it, which links into my health record (as I found out when I went to the optician recently) as well as other government agencies.

I suppose it could get lost or stolen, but if anyone wants to pretend to be me and pay my speeding fines that's cool (not that I have any of course ).

Fred James

They can insist that all EU immigrants sign on a register just like we do in Spain but they cannot insist of them having ID cards in addition to their national ID card/Passport.

It is clearly against EU law that is why Spain had to take away our "residencia" cards and replace them with the green form/card.

The EU directive states:-

The residence card requirement should be restricted to family members of Union citizens who are not nationals of a Member State for periods of residence of longer than three months.

Jon-Bxl

Blimey Domino - having a bad day? - how judgemental of you 'lame excuse', 'numptie', 'balls', 'tosh' etc

I live in an environment where ID cards are required, no exception, and I can assure you from personal experience that this is not all that its cracked up to be. I believe there are some major problems with this.

I would not vote for this and the HUGE expense this will cause. The government trying to specify a UK wide system when we have experience of many other govt led IT projects failing (eg NHS patient registers - millions wasted!!) Also in the UK every few months we hear of private details being lost. There is no 1 person who would specify this and it will be death by committee, as these things are and have to be in the political environment we have....

And I go back to my point on ID theft..... this remains for me, a major concern, even after reading your post. I have actual experience of the weaknesses of ID cards.

So I disagree with you... and I dont want ID cards for UK citizens...

Jon

Domino

Jon, we have our own experiences and our own feelings about things, its a free world to disagree without throwing Exocets and things at each other.


Having worked in many security driven environments since I left school the only thing I can say is....
the person is always the weakest point, not the card, not the system, just the dumb eejut who leaves it at home, leaves it on their desk on going home, leaves it "in the other car" and the wife is using that. Then there was the guy who let his daughter play with it and she hid it and either couldnt or wouldnt tell him where it was. One was lost, don't know where, 6months later when moving house it was found behind a radiator. And then the card with huge teeth marks where the dog had bit it


funny no one leaves the car keys at home, and rarely leaves without their wallet/purse so they can't get petrol (OK we know that does happen occasionally). Most can remember their sarnies for lunch.
But an access/security card, their only way of getting into the building ??

jackytoo

I can't see any reason why the UK could not do the same as Spain. Surely this EU clause should cover it


Article 7 1 (b)

1. All Union citizens shall have the right of residence on the territory of another Member State for
a period of longer than three months if they:
(b) have sufficient resources for themselves and their family members not to become a burden on
the social assistance system of the host Member State during their period of residence and
have comprehensive sickness insurance cover in the host Member State

Fred James

That's right Jacky - they could easily do that.

My point was that, under the same legislation, they could not insist on additional ID cards which was what the press reports were suggesting.

Jon-Bxl

No exocets from me just one word 'judgemental 'and a few quotes from your post.

No big deal and we can agree to disagree of course.... and we do here. Also adds a bit of spice to life.

I have a story a long one too long for here, where the ID card itself was the problem and caused a LOT of grief for someone very close to me.

I prefer not to have one..... just IMHO

Jon