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UK + EU pension....?

UK + EU pension....?

Old Dec 11th 2021, 10:18 am
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Default UK + EU pension....?

My mum is currently getting BOTH a UK state pension and a pension from an EU country, having worked in both regions....

By the time I retire I will have all the qualifying years for a full UK state pension AND the qualifying years for a Spanish state pension.

From where I am standing at the moment it looks like I will get both....




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Old Dec 11th 2021, 10:44 am
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Default Re: UK + EU pension....?

If you have fully qualified for a UK pension, then there is no requirement to meet the Spanish minimum requirements. A fried spent two years working in Spain and gets a Spanish pension.
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Old Dec 11th 2021, 11:06 am
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Default Re: UK + EU pension....?

You are missing the point!

According to my mum, she gets two state pensions! One assumes I can do the same....

"To qualify for the minimum state pension, you must have worked and paid Spanish social security contributions for at least 15 years. Additionally, at least two of these years must be within the 15 year period immediately preceding the pension claim."

https://www.expatica.com/es/finance/...ension-846584/

So having all the years to get a full UK pension you can:
  1. Claim a UK pension
  2. Use those UK contributions/years to top up the missing years from a Spanish state pension.
  3. Claim a full UK pension and also in parallel claim a Spanish state pension for the years worked in Spain. As long as the period worked in Spain exceed 15 years AND two of those years were in Spain, it is good to go with a UK state pension and a Spanish state pension.
No idea about what you mate told you he gets.
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Old Dec 11th 2021, 1:06 pm
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Default Re: UK + EU pension....?

Originally Posted by agree_to_disagree View Post
You are missing the point!

According to my mum, she gets two state pensions! One assumes I can do the same....

"To qualify for the minimum state pension, you must have worked and paid Spanish social security contributions for at least 15 years. Additionally, at least two of these years must be within the 15 year period immediately preceding the pension claim."

https://www.expatica.com/es/finance/...ension-846584/

So having all the years to get a full UK pension you can:
  1. Claim a UK pension
  2. Use those UK contributions/years to top up the missing years from a Spanish state pension.
  3. Claim a full UK pension and also in parallel claim a Spanish state pension for the years worked in Spain. As long as the period worked in Spain exceed 15 years AND two of those years were in Spain, it is good to go with a UK state pension and a Spanish state pension.
No idea about what you mate told you he gets.
Quite correct in my case - paid UK voluntary contributions and full rate in Spain, qualified for both UK minimum and Spanish one done on years worked here - all administered by Spanish Social Security office that swept up all contributions in a single form. As a "PS" - depending on age at leaving last job remember possibility of 2 years of unemployment benefit in Spain when the government directly makes the pension contributions, obviously at a lower rate than when fully employed but means 2 extra years when pension calculation done.
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Old Dec 11th 2021, 5:54 pm
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Default Re: UK + EU pension....?

Originally Posted by Loafing Along View Post
Quite correct in my case - paid UK voluntary contributions and full rate in Spain, qualified for both UK minimum and Spanish one done on years worked here - all administered by Spanish Social Security office that swept up all contributions in a single form. As a "PS" - depending on age at leaving last job remember possibility of 2 years of unemployment benefit in Spain when the government directly makes the pension contributions, obviously at a lower rate than when fully employed but means 2 extra years when pension calculation done.
Let me put it another way....

Pension 1 - She gets a state pension from the UK government that is paid in sterling into a UK bank account.
Pension 2 - She gets a state pension from a euro zone government that is paid in euros into a EU bank account.

Do you get two state pensions as described above?

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Old Dec 11th 2021, 8:10 pm
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Default Re: UK + EU pension....?

"Claim a full UK pension and also in parallel claim a Spanish state pension for the years worked in Spain. As long as the period worked in Spain exceed 15 years AND two of those years were in Spain, it is good to go with a UK state pension and a Spanish state pension."

Is that your assertion or from somewhere official?

EU rules (and the Withdrawal Agreement) mean that you cannot and should not be receiving state pensions from two different countries, you claim in the country in which you last worked and paid social security and receive your pension from there.

If your mum is indeed receiving both UK and Spanish pensions then something has gone wrong and if the error comes to light she could very well have to pay back any monies she was not entitled to.
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Old Dec 11th 2021, 8:31 pm
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Default Re: UK + EU pension....?

Originally Posted by Notdunroamin View Post
"Claim a full UK pension and also in parallel claim a Spanish state pension for the years worked in Spain. As long as the period worked in Spain exceed 15 years AND two of those years were in Spain, it is good to go with a UK state pension and a Spanish state pension."

Is that your assertion or from somewhere official?

EU rules (and the Withdrawal Agreement) mean that you cannot and should not be receiving state pensions from two different countries, you claim in the country in which you last worked and paid social security and receive your pension from there.

If your mum is indeed receiving both UK and Spanish pensions then something has gone wrong and if the error comes to light she could very well have to pay back any monies she was not entitled to.

I must say I was of the impression you couldn't get 2 state pensions as that was what I was told by the UK government when I mentioned I would get a minimum Spanish one if I keep working 5 more years in Spain. Maybe it's a result of not being in EU as I know Swedes cant draw a Spanish and Swedish pension
hey use one or other to compensate. But hey...there are people now telling that they have dual residence and have access to both NHS and Spanish system and all kinds of weird things. So maybe Brexit has advantages.
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Old Dec 11th 2021, 8:33 pm
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Default Re: UK + EU pension....?

Originally Posted by Chipmonk View Post
...But hey...there are people now telling that they have dual residence and have access to both NHS and Spanish system and all kinds of weird things. So maybe Brexit has advantages.
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Old Dec 12th 2021, 8:54 am
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Default Re: UK + EU pension....?

Thanks for all your replies.

Notdunroamin, my mum most certainly is not doing anything illegal and she will not need to be paying anything back to anyone, so I don't know where you got that one from.

A quick google will tell you that getting two state pensions is something that most certainly was possible in the past.

What I need to understand is if it is still possible today.

I'll do a bit of digging online to see if I can find out more info and there are quite a few firms who specialise in this topic. Thankfully, I've a good few years to go until I retire so lots of time to sort it out.

Meanwhile I will continue to make voluntary contributions to add years to my UK pension, but in parallel make social security contributions in Spain.
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Old Dec 12th 2021, 9:18 am
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Default Re: UK + EU pension....?

Originally Posted by agree_to_disagree View Post
Thanks for all your replies.

Notdunroamin, my mum most certainly is not doing anything illegal and she will not need to be paying anything back to anyone, so I don't know where you got that one from.

A quick google will tell you that getting two state pensions is something that most certainly was possible in the past.

What I need to understand is if it is still possible today.

I'll do a bit of digging online to see if I can find out more info and there are quite a few firms who specialise in this topic. Thankfully, I've a good few years to go until I retire so lots of time to sort it out.

Meanwhile I will continue to make voluntary contributions to add years to my UK pension, but in parallel make social security contributions in Spain.
Brexit won't affect your right to a UK state pension.

I think the confusion was whether you would continue to receive an annual pension increase. For the moment the situation is yes.
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Old Dec 12th 2021, 10:46 am
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Default Re: UK + EU pension....?

I think it is entirely proper to receive two state provided pensions if they are fixed/statutory contributory pensions. Spain has contributions through the social security system which is payable in addition and separate to income tax and UK has contributions through the NI system, again in addition and separate to income tax. I think UK may be unique in allowing contributions to be made from citizens who live and work overseas (one has to be working at least 20 hours and have paid NI stamps for three years in UK prior to leaving. Not sure Spain allows this if one leaves Spain to work overseas? Providing one has sufficient contributions in each jurisdiction then why not? The pensions are not means tested. I continue to pay my class 2 stamp (for as long as I can before class 2 is abolished and only class 3 available - much more expensive) and now have nearly 35 years paid. My Australian pension will not be payable to me (as it is means tested) until my UK pension is worth much less over time as a result of the pension being frozen.. This is the main issue that I see for all UK retirees and future retirees in Spain, even those who have managed to move there permanently before the transition period ended . Australia, like Spain currently, once had an agreement with UK to uprate pensions, that ended in 2000. There have been many petitions since, including with support of some UK MPs, to reinstate the uprate, to no avail. I will obtain the full pension when I retire however it will then be frozen so long as I continue to live in Aus .

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Old Dec 12th 2021, 10:58 am
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Default Re: UK + EU pension....?

I should have added that the difference in living in a jurisdiction that has a means tested pension, where one is relying on a paid into UK pension, as against living in a jurisdiction where one only has a paid into state pension, when relying on a UK paid into pension , is that if the UK pension is no long uprated, then the paid into pension where one is living cannot be increased to meet the shortfall. For example, say I live in Spain and I do have 15 years paid in status, and a full pension from UK (as I worked in UK for an umber of years before coming to Spain and continued to make voluntary contributions) . If all I had to rely on was my UK pension and a smaller Spanish pension then the UK uprating my state pension is vital as, if they do what they did to Australia (and Canada), I would be in difficulty as the Spanish pension would not be increased to meet that real value shortfall over time.

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Old Dec 12th 2021, 1:14 pm
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Default Re: UK + EU pension....?

Originally Posted by paulhe View Post
I think it is entirely proper to receive two state provided pensions if they are fixed/statutory contributory pensions. Spain has contributions through the social security system which is payable in addition and separate to income tax and UK has contributions through the NI system, again in addition and separate to income tax. I think UK may be unique in allowing contributions to be made from citizens who live and work overseas (one has to be working at least 20 hours and have paid NI stamps for three years in UK prior to leaving. Not sure Spain allows this if one leaves Spain to work overseas? Providing one has sufficient contributions in each jurisdiction then why not? The pensions are not means tested. I continue to pay my class 2 stamp (for as long as I can before class 2 is abolished and only class 3 available - much more expensive) and now have nearly 35 years paid. My Australian pension will not be payable to me (as it is means tested) until my UK pension is worth much less over time as a result of the pension being frozen.. This is the main issue that I see for all UK retirees and future retirees in Spain, even those who have managed to move there permanently before the transition period ended . Australia, like Spain currently, once had an agreement with UK to uprate pensions, that ended in 2000. There have been many petitions since, including with support of some UK MPs, to reinstate the uprate, to no avail. I will obtain the full pension when I retire however it will then be frozen so long as I continue to live in Aus .

Paul
Yes they do - I went on a one year assignemnt to Germany and signed up with the Social Security to continue my contributions in Spain
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Old Dec 13th 2021, 9:27 am
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Default Re: UK + EU pension....?

One thing about having a UK state pension and state pension from an EU country is it affects your right to receive medical care using the S1. If you live in an EU country and receive a state pension from that country they should provide your healthcare and you are not entitled to the S1 from the UK.
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