Is this true?
 

Hi all,

My OH and I want to move out of London and to sunnier, cheaper climes. We have enough money to buy a small house on the med without a mortgage while we will never get on the property ladder in the UK.

I can work from anywhere in the world as I'm self-employed and work via the internet. My OH is a skilled, experienced landscaper and has had his own business doing this in the UK, but he doesn't speak any other languages.

We were first thinking of moving to Portugal and trying to get OH some work doing up and maintaining the gardens in ex-pats' villas, but after asking on the forums, people seem convinced this will not fly. They say that Brits in Portugal would rather pay less and get a Portuguese person to do it, even if they couldn't speak Portuguese that well.

But 2 friends of ours have lived in Spain (one in the Canaries and one on the mainland) and both said that ex-pats there would much rather have a Brit do the work because they find them more reliable than Spanish workmen. Is this true? We could afford a little house on the Costa del Sol, which has about 15% British residency. But only if it's true and my OH could actually get work.

Thanks for any advice.

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I can't answer for Portugal, but there are some English gardeners around in Spain. People often prefer them to the locals because it eases the language problem. Also Spanish gardeners tend to think that the perfect pruning tool is a chainsaw, an English gardener would more likely use secateurs!

That said, he would be doing well to get €10/hr and working in the summer heat takes some getting used to. Add to that the monthly cost of being self employed (about €250).

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Thank you Fred - that's reassuring to hear. Yes I read about the social security contributions already, because I'd have to pay them too. But not having to pay London rent and prices would probably make up for that.

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Living mortgage free is a big advantage and being in the sun sounds great at first, but you have to consider other things like pensions and health care. I don't know how old you are, but if your partner can't find work and you're in an area with no other job prospects what then?






Fred James mentioned the heat and that can be deadly for some people who are not used to it. You might also have to consider higher electric costs if you're working from home, especially if you need air con.
Just things to consider.




I'm in my 30's and could be mortgage free in Spain too, but calculating costs I'd not be better off over there and am actually far better off where I am now with a mortgage, because of salary, pension etc.

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Hi Moses,

Thanks for replying.

Working from home, I'd assume I could put some of my costs of doing business (ie. electricity) on my expenses. But to me, it's not just the money. I'm finding life here stressful. I'm starting to dislike the UK very much. I'd rather live frugally and feel more independent than have more money.

By the way, my health is pretty bad. The healthcare system over here is now a joke. I have to wait 9 months to see specialists and then I pretty much get passed from pillar to post. If you've nothing life-threatening, the NHS is awful. Thanks Tory privatisation. I think my health would only improve outside of London.

My OH and finding a job for him is really our only concern. That's why I'm posting here - to see if it's even doable. We're in our mid-30s by the way.

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My wife and I left our careers in London 9 years ago to move to Spain and we are still here. We were 26 years old when we left. Our experience was the following

- I took my job with me so luckily had a London salary in Spain (and still do). This is a massive advantage and I highly recommend it
- My (Spanish) wife could only find jobs paying less than half what she was paid in London. It was very demotivating and no employer believed that at 26 she was managing a global team of 12 because most 26 Spaniards barely have any work experience, so she started her own company and worked self-employed. If you have an unbelievable CV at a young age, nobody will believe it
- You must pay the social security payments. Minimum 270 euros each, every month
- The health service in Spain is great in an emergency but very similar to the UK if you want to see a specialist. People with money in Spain always pay private to see a specialist
- If you are looking to move to the Costa del sol, there are not many British professionals there, and there are lots of pensioners and working class families e.g. gardeners. There is no longer an influx of more British people moving there, so your husband would have to displace a British gardener already working there, not easy
- Working life in Spain is just as stressful in the UK. The only thing you save is the stressful London commute, but other things will stress you out about Spain. Rents are low but so are salaries, so standard of life wont necessarily go up once you get used to the sun
- Working in the summer heat is an absolute torture, even inside! You will pine for the cloudy London days that are perfect for going to the office

Whatever you decide, good luck!

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Thanks for your reply Cricketman.

I would also be earning a reasonable salary, not a Spanish one, which would help us out a lot.

I have paid privately for some urgent testing because of NHS waiting times - I believe the cost would be lower in Spain than London if I needed the same again.

My OH specialises in luxury landscaping rather than more simple gardening. He's worked for quite a few celebs over here and won prizes at the Chelsea Flower Show. We were hoping to target that sort of market, so maybe find somewhere with access to both Marbella and Malaga. Going inland a bit to somewhere like Coin or Alhaurin el Grande might give us that access as well as being quieter and cheaper to live and being a little cooler than on the coast, I was thinking.

Oh it's not working life I find stressful. I love what I do. It's the rising rents, Tory government, London attitude, weather!!

Thanks for your input - it's really helpful.

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There are almost no British people in Malaga. ALhaurin El GRande is definitely not a luxury area. Parts of Marbella are very luxury and international (definitely not just British) as are Benahavis and Sotogrande further down the coast

But of course the rent are luxury to match, but your husband could commute from a less luxury area

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Haha that's what I meant - we could live in Alhaurin el Grande and he could work in Marbella.

I'm really surprised that there are no Brits in Malaga, but thanks for the tips on further down the coast. I speak both German and French so I wouldn't mind doing bookings for him. Most people speak English, but if not, I've found French a great substitute and occasionally got to practice my German as well.

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With French, you'd likely be better off on the Costa Brava. At least you could maybe target more French people and you also have the option of being closer to France. You can buy a decent sized detached house with garden from around 130K around Blanes/Lloret and it's only 1 hr 30 mins from Perpignan.

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Thanks Moses. Unfortunately we don't have that much money to spend on a property. Personal circumstances mean we don't have a lot saved. But we can afford a 1 or 2 bed townhouse with a terrace or garden around Malaga province. I've seen stuff on the net we can afford in Coin and Alhaurin el Grande, which are not far to drive to from Marbella.

Obviously we'll have to come over and scope out all the areas before we decide on anywhere or anything, but I'm trying to get a feel for what is and isn't achievable, and figure out where we should be looking.

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But be careful that you don't end up with an expensive building project, as that can happen in Spain. There are obviously cheaper properties around too that aren't bad. You'd also have the option of buying land and putting a cube house on your plot. Loads of younger Spanish families are going for that option and you can get a damp free house for 50K if you don't need a huge home.

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Indeed! Yes I've been reading all about that. All sorts of other traps to beware as well, like ensuring sellers have left no outstanding debt or taxes on their house. Not heard of the cube house though! I will look that up.

No we don't need a big home, although we do have to have a house rather than an apartment because we have a cat who will be going wherever we go. So we need to own a property outright, rather than being in a complex, and have access to the street to let her in and out. My dear cat has always added to my rent as I've always had to have a garden wherever I am in London and that really does add to your rent! I wonder if she'd like living in a cube? ;)

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It's just called Cube type housing because it's modular, but you might want to check it out Cube 75 | Casas prefabricadas y modulares Cube


If it wasn't for the cat, I would have said you'd be better off to bite in the sour apple as Germans say. Reduce your rental costs and live in the crappiest place to really save hard until you actually have enough cash. There's no point of going to a place you won't like in a year and you end up with a property you'll never sell.

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Hmm

OK. A sub-100k property in Alhaurin or Coin would be absolute hell in terms of quality of life

You are likely to get an old damp and dark terrace house in an undesirable neighbourhood in one of the most depressed towns in Europe and all the depravation that comes with that. Go and take a look around the gypsy neighbourhoods in Alhaurin for example. Seriously, you want to live there?!

I seriously do not recommend this. You would be better off renting in a more desirable location. Rents are very low in Spain, no need to buy at all

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You really do need to consider, very carefully, about the summer heat, working in temps of 35+ is not pleasant, in fact it's a nightmare, your husband would need at least a year to get close to being acclimatised, and also to get used to working as the Spanish do, work early in the day, then have a siesta and then work again, there is a very valid reasoning behind the siesta. You cat would also suffer in the heat, and, I'm afraid, Spanish people aren't really pet orientated, and there are 'gangs' of feral cats everywhere, keeping your cat indoors might be a sensible thing to do, or at least ensuring it can't get out, and other cats can't get in. Not too sure that there would be a lot of call for a landscape gardener in the way your husband would work, the severe summer heat doesn't suit that many plants.

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Yep British family forced to flee Spanish home | Olive Press News Spain

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Wow, the cube is cool.

Yes I know you can't tell from the internet what an area is like - we would have to visit. Some of the houses themselves look fine though even at low prices.

It depends as well. I currently live in Finsbury Park in London and have lived in Wood Green and Archway - many people would turn their noses up at these places or say "mind you don't get shot", but I've never had any problems in any of these locations. Meanwhile, I have been to certain areas of Greenwich and wouldn't live there if you paid me to, while other bits are quite nice - but no-one says things like that about Greenwich because the nicer areas are very well-known.

We won't be moving for about another year if we do move anyway, so we do have time to save up some more money. I was looking at Coin and Alhaurin in terms of commuting to the Marbella/Malaga area. If you have any other suggestions of places which are fairly cheap, full of amenities, but not packed with tourists and close enough to drive to Marbella, I'm very open to suggestions :)

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Bethsmyls, it looks like you're trying to make the move based on the barest shoe-string budget, which means you will have nothing in reserve for contingencies, and when moving internationally, there are always unexpected expenses.

Honestly you would be best served by moving to a cheaper part of the UK, 100+ miles from London, as you will get most of the benefits that you're looking for in a move to Spain or Portugal, with none of the stress and aggravation of setting yourself up in a country that you aren't familiar with.

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You can always spot a Spanish Landscape Gardener by the car he drives - usually a huge JCB.

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My cat is fairly old now and doesn't go out much, but she does like to be abe to go outside if she chooses to, even if it's just to sit on the doorstep for 5 minutes. That's cats for you.

My OH is happy to work in all weathers - but I'm sure he'd take his siesta. It's the winters here that are more difficult than the hottest of days though really. He has a very extensive knowledge of plants and conditions, so I'm assuming he'll know what grows and what doesn't. He does things like decking, mosaics, water features, tree pruning and patios too.

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Probably the best advice of the day. I'm sure there are some nicer villages or towns in the UK that are more affordable than London, where it's possible to have a more relaxed life.


Especially with a landscape gardener, you could create your own little world and it's cheap enough to get to Spain during winter when gardening isn't in season in the UK. I'd rather be in a nice place where it's pissing down all day without having to worry about finances, before moving to a wasteland with no prospects.

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I know we probably need a bit more money, but we do have a few contingency funds as well. We have taken that well into account when thinking about what we can afford to buy. We will have some money left over.

The point is, I don't want to live in the UK any more. and I don't want to rent any more. I've become partly disabled and need to be able to make adjustments to my home that I just can't make in a rented property. And I can not afford to buy anywhere in the UK.

We're trying to work out how we can move, and the most viable place to go to, where my OH can work too. Maybe Spain isn't the place, or maybe not Portugal. That's what I'm trying to figure out.

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It's a home of my own I'm looking for, and that's just not going to happen in the UK whereas I can afford to buy outright abroad.

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In your situation, and severely constrained circumstances I am afraid that you are placing too much weight on what you "want", and not enough on what is in your best (financial) interests. The state provided assistance and healthcare is still relatively generous in the UK, and while I understand that you don't "like" the changes that have occured in the UK, I think you are trying to run away from what you don't like into a situation that could easily be a lot worse - taxes higher, housing the same or poorer, lower/unreliable income for your OH, healthcare no better than the UK but more expensive, and then all wrapped up in a blanket of issues related to language and culture that you're not familiar with.

I understand, and under your circumstances you are correct, but .... ..... I don't believe that is true. ..... I have just checked rightmove.co.uk for Sheffield (just as an example) and there are more than 60 houses (not flats) priced at under £60,000 - some of them around half that much, and they look half-decent and livable, not a major renovation project. I believe you will find a similar range of similarly priced properties in towns across the north of England and into Scotland.

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Where can you buy a house for £50k or so in the UK?!

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See in red, above - where I was adding to my previous post. :)

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Wow! Didn't realise Sheffield was so cheap. But it's not just that. I want to get out of the UK. I find it increasingly depressing here.

If I was on my own, I'd just buy a tiny townhouse in Portugal and live there no worries. When we were looking before, I found some that I could afford in areas I know and like. I've lived abroad on my own before. I pick up languages easily. I have steady work at a higher wage than local salaries.

It's my OH making a living that is the biggest barrier to us moving anywhere. It's one of those things where you just can't know if it's viable or not, and everyone says something different,

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Do you rely on benefits in the UK?
Have you researched into facilities for disabled people?
Don't assume there would be no worries!
I spent 14 years in Spain, and whereas I'm glad to have experienced it, I'm glad I moved back to the UK, to one of those cheaper houses in Yorkshire that someone mentioned, mainly because I will feel more secure in my old age!

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I have been on benefits, which was more stressful than being ill. Luckily, I now have a flexible job which requires few hours for high pay, so I just do it on my better days. I also have some passive income in the form of royalties, so I get by OK. I don't make a fortune but it's a living wage.

The main thing I need is more handrails and a shower seat installed in my home as I have balance issues and taking a shower is a nightmare as well as quite dangerous. I can't put either of those things in a rental property. Also I need special lighting. I've just been able to change bulbs in my bedroom, but I have a strip light in the kitchen which means I can't go in there after dark unless I want to feel very ill indeed.

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A good friend of mine says one house two countries. He is refering to Ayamonte the border town on the Gurdiana River. We live in Costa Esuri a Suburb of Ayamonte where plots are currently for sale at €26000 some very build able. One of those and a Cube house and you could get what you want for about €100000 don't forget there are lots of development costs to be added to the plot and cube. Your husband could then tap into the Algarve market and Spanish market. Don't be fixated on the CDS Spain is a very big beautiful diverse country and Portugal is right next door and very accessible if you live on the border.

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Thanks John. Bit out of our budget still, but it's nice to read a solution-focused post with some positive ideas. It's given me food for thought. We could definitely buy just on the other side of the border in Portugal - there is some very cheap property on the border just North of the Algarve, and the buying process itself seems to be cheaper too. Social security contributions are not as steep either in Portugal. Indeed, one house, two countries - why not?

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;)Morecambe Bay, East Lancashire countryside, Pendle, West Yorkshire. They would all get you well away from the cesspit of London that you hate so much. And with beautiful countryside and landscapr gardens within easy reach.
Both Spain or Italy have lots going for them if you have lots of money.

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Our nearest restaurant is in Monte Francisco just across the river from us in fact it is an incredible hamlet population can't be more than 2000 has 5 cafe/restaurants a community centered sport/social club always something going on Saturday night dances and so on and the friendliest people. In 2004 we plumped for Spain it was cheaper than Portugal then it may be the other way now after the crisis and 5+ years of PP running the show!

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Haha I don't hate London. It's the UK in general I'd prefer to get away from. Thanks for the tips though. I really didn't think anywhere buying anywhere in the UK was possible without a mortgage. It's nice to be proved wrong on that.

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Every country has its pros and cons with property. Apparently in Portugal, you just never know how long a sale can take to go through if you buy an older property, as it may well belong to several inheritees from a couple of generations who all have to complete the paperwork too. So it could take a few weeks and it could take a year and a half! But the buying process is cheaper, with less tax to pay (very little on cheaper homes).

The income tax system is less harsh too, with more reasonable allowances for the self-employed and lower earners, so if you were starting up a business it would be easier.

Where you live sounds very nice and like you're making the most of it. I'm glad you found a lovely place that works for you.

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It is the same in many countries Spain, Italy,Greece, Bulgaria. Many homes are handed down and have multiple owners. It can take an age to work through it. Sometimmes folk give up.

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I didn't know that. Thanks. Must be very frustrating if you've found somewhere you really like.