JLFS

Confession time:
I read the DM and this story seemed very relevant as the jobless nimber is high in so many countries.

People were so up in arms against Tesco advertising a work experience place as "permanent" that a whole storm is brewing, and one store had to be closed due to protesters

It does seem unfair that a big concern like Tesco and the likes get "enforced free labour" when I am sure there are other bodies that could give unemployed an insight, but cannot afford to pay the going rate.

Or is it right to make people work for benefits in the first place?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...rk-scheme.html

Is this a step forward in solving the jobless crisis or a step back?

cricketman

It's a huge step backwards

Again, last night I watched the excellent Salvados where they investigated the German "miracle" of how they have reduced the number of unempoyed from 5 to 3 million over the past 10 years

The conclusion is they did it by creating a 2 tier system following the American model where inequality has increased hugely. There are more jobs for the skilled which are well paid, but also many more unskilled temporary jobs where people earn as little as 600 euros per month

A socioligist was saying that they want to do the same in Spain. At the moment the relatively unskilled people who work in bars, restaurants, shops etc actually get paid a lot more in Spain than in Germany and have many more rights

Over the next few years the wages and rights of these people will be stripped until you will have the majority of the population living on 600 euros per month (rather than the 1000-1200 euros per month now) and then perhaps a third of the population who earn between 3 and 20 times more than that

Oh and you only get unemployment benefits in Germany if you have zero assets i.e. you must sell your house and car first!

Domino

I cannot see anything wrong with workers getting (or retaining) rights. Many people gave their lives to make that a reality. I do not subscribe to abuse of those rights by some (and the frightened bunny in headlights attitude by some managers when abuse has to be reported to them)

Remember that we are hearing of so many directors that seem to have plenty of rights no one will try to take away


Tesco are wrong and there can be no arguement on that.

steviedeluxe

I understand Tesco have had to go back on their participation in the scheme - they've realised it could backfire on them in a big way. It's funny how the "free market" crowd are often big supporters of this measure that is intervention in the market at its most basic - providing free forced labour to chain stores who sign up to the deal, and thus undercut other shops who are in that market. I'm not sure I would want to buy food from someone who's been forced to work in this way - I worked in a supermarket many moons ago and know there are ways to "doctor" food.
Speaking generally I rather suspect Tesco has lost its way, and this episode is another example. They're not the place to go if you want cheap shopping nor if you want quality. They have a lot of stores in good locations (they've mushroomed in our part of London to stop other supermarkets from getting in) and they are capable of selling good produce under their finest range. But they seem to lack direction and I wonder if they are heading for a long slow decline. They overcame a decline in the 70s/80s, so maybe they can regain their momentum?

Edit: I don't think Tesco were totally in the wrong in this - they possibly thought it was a way to give unemployed a chance of building up work experience, and thus gain some contented workers. It's the way it's been implemented that has put peoples' backs up.

rugbymatt

I love the fact that protestors shut the store in question down, brilliant justice.

Matalan have pulled out of the scheme and it looks like it will probably fail... is that a good thing? Time will tell.

Domino

Its not necessarily The Plan that is at fault but the implemenation, the interpretation some numpty has put on it

Any company that makes an effort to provide employment of any sort should get accolades, especially as there are people out there who have no work experience at 30/35. But then some shouldnt have started having children at 16 to get away from the family..... but thats OT

Lynn R

I don't see anything wrong with people who are claiming benefits being "forced" to take a temporary job in order to gain experience or prevent long term welfare dependency developing, but IMO they should be paid benefits and have them topped up by the firms they are working for to the level of the national minimum wage. It is wrong for huge companies like Tesco or Matalan to increase their profits still further by taking advantage of free labour.

I also dislike the practice of "internships" which have developed in recent years where young people interested in getting into a particular field (and it tends to be the more 'glamourous' stuff like work in the media, fashion, etc) work for free, sometimes for lengthy periods. Not only is this exploitation, it is only young people whose parents can afford to subsidise them whilst they do internships who can do it, so opportunities are denied to talented youngsters from poorer families

cricketman

Yep, internships are a scandel also. Over the past 5 years or so they have crept over to normal industries like journalism, PR, law, marketing etc

I worked with a nice intern recently who was working for free during his uni holidays. Good for him, but I had to work to earn money during my uni holidays at very unglamourous jobs so I could afford to go back to uni the following year

Not very fair that the young people with rich parents get to have the contacts and experience to put on their CV because they dont have to earn money

agoreira

Unpaid jobs are nothing new, lots of political, financial, fashion companies use internships where people work for nothing in the hope of gaining experience and hopefully a job. Even Boris is at it.
Edit. Just read Lyn's post, too late!

amideislas

Wouldn't it be simpler if we all just live on unemployment benefits? Who wants to get up and go to work in the morning anyway?

Besides, then everybody will get paid the same, and we no longer have the horrible unfair inequality caused by allowing employers to pay people what they can afford to pay for any required skillset.

Domino

don't forget there would then be no arguement about Directors pay and bonus......

who would have the money to go to football matches and all those boys with talent would have nowhere to go.......

perhaps the church could take the lead and help us back to the Good Old Days of the 14th and 15th Centuries

cricketman

There is a phrase used a lot in Spain called a "sueldo digno" or "vivienda digna"

i.e. a diginified wage and housing

Unless we have major deflation, 600 euros per month is not dignified.

I believe in human dignity, not in paying people as little as possible so that they we can sell more cr*p

I would actually have a rule that no person in a company can earn more than ten times the salary as anyone else. So if the CEO wants a pay rise then they will have to increase it for those at the bottom too

pwwm

The Spanish have to work ex amount of time per year for the local council, street cleaning, painting etc to continue getting their dole, it is not deemed offensive here quite the opposite in fact.

I Know this is different to UK, but does seem a shame they cannot implement this in UK, would keep streets cleaner etc, only this morning saw my neighbour in town doing exactly this.

Domino

in the UK there is a feeling that a cleaner is inferior which isnt apparent in Spain. It gives them a pride in their allocated areas, it brings it home to their neighbours they are contributing for anything they get and respect goes with it.

why is it the UK cannot learn anything from anyone, or is it just a little isolated island full of bigots ??

cricketman

Well, some Spanish people think that, but definitely not the majority

60% of cleaners and domestic helpers in Spain are foreign, not Spanish. So it can't be such a sought after job