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Trafalgar Day
A happy Trafalgar day to one and all
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Re: Trafalgar Day
Originally Posted by EllisG
(Post 9687759)
A happy Trafalgar day to one and all
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Re: Trafalgar Day
Originally Posted by bil
(Post 9687907)
Thank you. We are quite near the cape of T, and it never ceases to puzzle me why some entrepeneur doesn't cash in on the fact.
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Re: Trafalgar Day
Originally Posted by Fredbargate
(Post 9687989)
Not many countries celebrate the battles they lost
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Re: Trafalgar Day
Originally Posted by bil
(Post 9688000)
Technically it was the French we were thrashing. An English guy with a boat out to be able to make a killing taking tourists out to the site of the battle.
Mind you the Spanish erected close to Gibraltar a small memorial to the Brave Italian Frogmen who attacked Gibraltar during WW2 |
Re: Trafalgar Day
Originally Posted by bil
(Post 9688000)
An English guy with a boat out to be able to make a killing taking tourists out to the site of the battle.
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Re: Trafalgar Day
Originally Posted by agoreira
(Post 9688049)
What's to see? :confused: Last I heard they were trying to put nearly 300 wind turbines offshore there. Lots of debates going on, I think it's still on hold.
Besides, we did the Spanish a favour forcing Napoleons hand into showing it's former allies his true colours. Without the sea as their option didn't Napoleon decide to break his alliance and invade Spain ?.....I'm no expert on this period or indeed much of French/Spanish history since neither nation has given much for the world to learn from their past exploits |
Re: Trafalgar Day
Originally Posted by agoreira
(Post 9688049)
What's to see? :confused: Last I heard they were trying to put nearly 300 wind turbines offshore there. Lots of debates going on, I think it's still on hold.
http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s...310006-3-1.jpg |
Re: Trafalgar Day
Originally Posted by EllisG
(Post 9688074)
Besides, we did the Spanish a favour forcing Napoleons hand into showing it's former allies his true colours. Without the sea as their option didn't Napoleon decide to break his alliance and invade Spain ?.....I'm no expert on this period or indeed much of French/Spanish history since neither nation has given much for the world to learn from their past exploits
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Re: Trafalgar Day
Originally Posted by bil
(Post 9688000)
Technically it was the French we were thrashing. An English guy with a boat out to be able to make a killing taking tourists out to the site of the battle.
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Re: Trafalgar Day
Originally Posted by Fredbargate
(Post 9688083)
Nelson at sea and Wellington on land :thumbup:
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Re: Trafalgar Day
Originally Posted by EllisG
(Post 9688270)
yeah I know that much...even though technically most of the soldiers fighting with Wellington weren't actually British and if I recall correctly his genius at Waterloo was merely delaying tactics waiting for the Prussian army to regroup and help outnumber the French
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Re: Trafalgar Day
Well, Spain has defeated many times to UK, the difference is that here there is no celebration, and in the UK these victories are not in the UK history books, only says its victories. That's the difference between Spanish and British, spanish says our victories and our defeats, UK only the victories. And when I say Spain wins the United Kingdom, I speak of Admiral Blas de Lezo or battles as Tenerife (before Trafalgar), where Admiral Nelson was captured, healed of his wounds and sent back to the UK. If this had been reversed, if the UK had captured a Spanish admiral, probably would have ended in a firing squad
Regarding Trafalgar, in the case of Franco-Spanish fleet, was not commander the Spanish admirals (Churruca, Gravina, etc) but by a Frenchman incompetent, named Villeneuve, who ignored the Spanish admirals when they warned him not to take out ships in open sea, because were easy targets for Nelson. Then what happened happened |
Re: Trafalgar Day
Originally Posted by Relampago
(Post 9688420)
Well, Spain has defeated many times to UK, the difference is that here there is no celebration, and in the UK these victories are not in the UK history books, only says its victories. That's the difference between Spanish and British, spanish says our victories and our defeats, UK only the victories. And when I say Spain wins the United Kingdom, I speak of Admiral Blas de Lezo or battles as Tenerife (before Trafalgar), where Admiral Nelson was captured, healed of his wounds and sent back to the UK. If this had been reversed, if the UK had captured a Spanish admiral, probably would have ended in a firing squad
Regarding Trafalgar, in the case of Franco-Spanish fleet, was not commander the Spanish admirals (Churruca, Gravina, etc) but by a Frenchman incompetent, named Villeneuve, who ignored the Spanish admirals when they warned him not to take out ships in open sea, because were easy targets for Nelson. Then what happened happened |
Re: Trafalgar Day
Originally Posted by Relampago
(Post 9688420)
That's the difference between Spanish and British, spanish says our victories and our defeats, UK only the victories.
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Re: Trafalgar Day
Originally Posted by EllisG
(Post 9688429)
The British sent Villeneuve back too...he committed suicide on the way back to Paris
The British were not convinced. Jim |
Re: Trafalgar Day
Originally Posted by Bigger Jim
(Post 9689844)
The British sent Villeneuve to England but released him on parole; during this time he lived in Sonning in the English county of Berkshire. Freed in late 1805, he returned to France, where he attempted to go back into military service but his requests were not answered. On April 22, 1806, he was found dead at the Hotel de la Patrie in Rennes with six stab wounds in the left lung and one in the heart:[1] a verdict of suicide [2] was recorded.
The British were not convinced. Jim |
Re: Trafalgar Day
Originally Posted by EllisG
(Post 9689846)
6 stab wounds eh...damn he must have been angry with himself :D
The caption read, 'Most determined suicide ever'. Bit like the Arab found dead in Israel with seventeen stab wounds, and fifteen bullet holes. The Israeli coroner recorded a verdict of suicide. |
Re: Trafalgar Day
Originally Posted by bil
(Post 9689859)
It's a bit like the cartoon of a mincer, and from the mincer input is emerging an arm, and the hand of which is gripping the handle of the mincer.
The caption read, 'Most determined suicide ever'. Bit like the Arab found dead in Israel with seventeen stab wounds, and fifteen bullet holes. The Israeli coroner recorded a verdict of suicide. Coroner was probably right. Any Arab venturing into Israels more sensitive areas must surely be suicidal. |
Re: Trafalgar Day
Originally Posted by bil
(Post 9689859)
It's a bit like the cartoon of a mincer, and from the mincer input is emerging an arm, and the hand of which is gripping the handle of the mincer.
The caption read, 'Most determined suicide ever'. Bit like the Arab found dead in Israel with seventeen stab wounds, and fifteen bullet holes. The Israeli coroner recorded a verdict of suicide. |
Re: Trafalgar Day
Originally Posted by Dick Dasterdly
(Post 9689861)
Coroner was probably right.
Any Arab venturing into Israels more sensitive areas must surely be suicidal. There was a mass arab suicide a while back amongst arabs captured by the Israelis. Seems they machine gunned themselves after handcuffing themselves, so it was quite impressive. |
Re: Trafalgar Day
Originally Posted by bil
(Post 9690746)
Yeah, or sim'ply falling into israeli hands.
There was a mass arab suicide a while back amongst arabs captured by the Israelis. Seems they machine gunned themselves after handcuffing themselves, so it was quite impressive. |
Re: Trafalgar Day
Oh yes, it must be fantastic being an Arab in Israel, especially when visiting the house your parents were thown out from and meeting the people living there now...
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Re: Trafalgar Day
Originally Posted by evamar
(Post 9690927)
Oh yes, it must be fantastic being an Arab in Israel, especially when visiting the house your parents were thown out from and meeting the people living there now...
The Balfour treaty (long before mass immigration after WW2) gave them a chance to share the land this was rejected by the arabs. Rather than negotiate they always chose war. Their leader in WW2 Haj Amin al-Husseini living in Berlin because Hitler promised him an arab homeland in exchange for extermination of the Jews in the new Palestine. In 1967 the armies of at least 5 arab nations invaded in the hope of wiping out the state of israel, they failed. If the Israelis truly had an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth mentality they would have been quite capable of causing much pain and misery on the Palestinians but as it is their so called arab brothers have inflicted more upon them than Israel have ever even threatened. Recent events are quite apt Israel is prepared to give away over a 1000 murdering scum from it's prisons as it cares more about it's children than it hates it's enemy...they still celebrate their children sacrificing their lives to kill and maim with suicide bombs. I know many arab israelis who own their own homes, happily live and socialise and distance themselves from the fanatics the same way as a lot of Israeli distance themselves from the religious lunatics in their own camp. This is another thing you need to understand, Israel is a permanent coalition and in order to form a coalition the ruling party must give concessions to the religious freaks who hold the key to a majority..... |
Re: Trafalgar Day
uh? Do I detect a touchy topic here?
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Re: Trafalgar Day
Originally Posted by evamar
(Post 9691072)
uh? Do I detect a touchy topic here?
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Re: Trafalgar Day
Well, I also worry about the Saharauis, mind you.
Precisely because I separate this world and the hypothetic next one I have to be pro-Palestinian and against Israel as a religiously created country, this doesn't mean that I am anti-Semitic as some of you will be thinking and stupidly maybe pointing out. I worry more about the here and now than what happened thousands of years ago. Dale Farm... evicted just before 10 years so no legal claims... how long were Palestinians living there before the creation of the state of Israel? History is full of massacres, killings and deportations, most due to religion, and we all can wave socks here. When people have been thrown of their place centuries of years ago, whatever the injustice of it all, and have finally managed to settle down in another place, even if despised for their religious ideas, they should integrate as much as possible in the civil life of the place they are living. Even if they still consider that they are religiously right so that they will have a happy afterlife with god or whatever, that's secondary. I think this about the gypsies and foreigners in Spain, just as British people want foreigners to integrate, and this should be valid for everybody, whatever their religion, race or education. We are very lucky to live in these times, especially in some areas. There should have been a census of the actual number of Jews, Arabs and other religions and ethnics living in this area at the beginning of the British Mandate and only their direct descendants should have a legal right, not the whole religion. A pity that the British didn't actually created 2 states, but with equal access to water, and leave Jerusalem secular and independent, that might have been the solution and I would be defending Israel, not as it is now. If we follow a religious right, then Spain should become Arab, the UK should become Catholic... and don't we all come from Africa??? Throwing people away recently because other people used to live there many many centuries ago and their descendants wanted to go back is simply against the justice of this world. I don't care if there were not frontiers; borders have been decided with a rule too many times, and even so we can see that they mean nothing. What matters is the people who was actually living there and that have been forced out recently. This falls into this world, not the hypothetic next one, which I, for one, don't care about. Jews? Christians, Arabs? Samaritans? Atheists? Fine, believe what you want, I myself also have jewish and arab blood, so what? I respect all religions the same... even the followers of the monkey gods can be right as far as I'm concerned. I'm just consequent with other posts of mine, you know that. Israel? We are talking politics here, not religion. I am glad to hear that so many Arabs are happily living in the very same areas as the Jews and have the very same job and education opportunities as them. Just as I will be happy to hear about the fair water distribution to Palestinians. As per releasing over 1K prisoners for one soldier... plain silly if you ask me: you are rewarding kidnappings so they will continue. Just as I consider stupid the Spanish payments of ransoms to the Somalian pirates. And yes, we have not forgotten Miguel Ãngel Blanco, never will. |
Re: Trafalgar Day
This is all rubbish. Europe for the Australopithecenes!
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Re: Trafalgar Day
Originally Posted by bil
(Post 9691246)
This is all rubbish. Europe for the Australopithecenes!
But.. which species??? :p |
Re: Trafalgar Day
Originally Posted by evamar
(Post 9691233)
Well, I also worry about the Saharauis, mind you.
Precisely because I separate this world and the hypothetic next one I have to be pro-Palestinian and against Israel as a religiously created country, this doesn't mean that I am anti-Semitic as some of you will be thinking and stupidly maybe pointing out. I worry more about the here and now than what happened thousands of years ago. Dale Farm... evicted just before 10 years so no legal claims... how long were Palestinians living there before the creation of the state of Israel? History is full of massacres, killings and deportations, most due to religion, and we all can wave socks here. When people have been thrown of their place centuries of years ago, whatever the injustice of it all, and have finally managed to settle down in another place, even if despised for their religious ideas, they should integrate as much as possible in the civil life of the place they are living. Even if they still consider that they are religiously right so that they will have a happy afterlife with god or whatever, that's secondary. I think this about the gypsies and foreigners in Spain, just as British people want foreigners to integrate, and this should be valid for everybody, whatever their religion, race or education. We are very lucky to live in these times, especially in some areas. There should have been a census of the actual number of Jews, Arabs and other religions and ethnics living in this area at the beginning of the British Mandate and only their direct descendants should have a legal right, not the whole religion. A pity that the British didn't actually created 2 states, but with equal access to water, and leave Jerusalem secular and independent, that might have been the solution and I would be defending Israel, not as it is now. If we follow a religious right, then Spain should become Arab, the UK should become Catholic... and don't we all come from Africa??? Throwing people away recently because other people used to live there many many centuries ago and their descendants wanted to go back is simply against the justice of this world. I don't care if there were not frontiers; borders have been decided with a rule too many times, and even so we can see that they mean nothing. What matters is the people who was actually living there and that have been forced out recently. This falls into this world, not the hypothetic next one, which I, for one, don't care about. Jews? Christians, Arabs? Samaritans? Atheists? Fine, believe what you want, I myself also have jewish and arab blood, so what? I respect all religions the same... even the followers of the monkey gods can be right as far as I'm concerned. I'm just consequent with other posts of mine, you know that. Israel? We are talking politics here, not religion. I am glad to hear that so many Arabs are happily living in the very same areas as the Jews and have the very same job and education opportunities as them. Just as I will be happy to hear about the fair water distribution to Palestinians. As per releasing over 1K prisoners for one soldier... plain silly if you ask me: you are rewarding kidnappings so they will continue. Just as I consider stupid the Spanish payments of ransoms to the Somalian pirates. And yes, we have not forgotten Miguel Ãngel Blanco, never will. You choose to side with the aggressor just because the defender is now infinitely stronger through alliances with Britain and America when the other side chose Nazi Germany and, through Syria and Iran, the Soviet Union. Surprisingly enough I feel sorry for the Palestinians and apportion the blame on Iran and Syria who have merely used them as pawns. One thing is for sure they are definitely far safer under Israeli rule than they would be under Syria or Iran both of who finance and arm Hamas (the Palestinian's prior experiences living in Jordan and Iraq should warn them of the dangers of living under their "brother's" influence)... If they have a water issue perhaps they should drain the water out of the olympic pool they built in Gaza last year http://www.tomgrossmedia.com/mideast...es/001127.html |
Re: Trafalgar Day
Originally Posted by evamar
(Post 9691250)
Seconded!
But.. which species??? :p |
Re: Trafalgar Day
Originally Posted by EllisG
(Post 9691089)
no..I detected someone with a screwed up point of view (2 in fact) which needed correcting. Rather than guess what get's me riled try and think up a reason why Palestinians have done anything to justify your pity preferably with the level of first hand experience of the situation that I have...the innocent Greek residents of Farmagusta are far more deserving of your attention since they were actually evicted by an aggressor not homeless as a result of a failed invasion
Jim |
Re: Trafalgar Day
Originally Posted by Fredbargate
(Post 9689166)
The yanks have never been defeated in their own words,:rofl:
Jim |
Re: Trafalgar Day
Originally Posted by evamar
(Post 9691233)
Throwing people away recently because other people used to live there many many centuries ago and their descendants wanted to go back is simply against the justice of this world. . |
Re: Trafalgar Day
Originally Posted by Fredbargate
(Post 9691420)
Nice to hear support for Gibraltar and the Gibraltarians :thumbup:
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Re: Trafalgar Day
Originally Posted by Fredbargate
(Post 9691420)
Nice to hear support for Gibraltar and the Gibraltarians :thumbup:
But, according to the treat, as soon as Gibraltar is no longer part of Britain it will become Spanish.... we are just waiting for their silly independence claims ... :p And of course... no water is recognised as British... |
Re: Trafalgar Day
Originally Posted by bil
(Post 9691315)
Gracilis, of course. I take it you were descended from those rather second class Robustus?
If one can trust Wikipedia, Paranthropus are a different genus, and developed into gorillas and some gracilis went to become the bald monkeys we are now and others became chimpanzees... but if you've seen the planet of the apes you will know you'd better don't mess with the gorillas! :lol: |
Re: Trafalgar Day
Originally Posted by evamar
(Post 9691814)
And who wants to throw them out?
But, according to the treat, as soon as Gibraltar is no longer part of Britain it will become Spanish.... we are just waiting for their silly independence claims ... :p And of course... no water is recognised as British... |
Re: Trafalgar Day
Originally Posted by Fredbargate
(Post 9691877)
The country that has never honoured it's part of the treaty
that treaty ? |
Re: Trafalgar Day
Originally Posted by Fredbargate
(Post 9691420)
Nice to hear support for Gibraltar and the Gibraltarians :thumbup:
I ask myself why sometimes we have been so idiots... |
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