Total shock.
 

I consider myself pretty unshockable, and my wife is the same. Tonight, while innocently watching the news, we were both shocked.

I know the case is sub-judice, but Rolf Harris? It sort of destroys your belief in human nature by several notches.

It's not nice to live your life with excess cynicism, and we try not to, but this is a hammer blow.

If it's true, they should hang the bastard.

Re: Total shock.
 

Tie me kangaroo down sport. :blink:

Well I must admit, I always had him down as one of the nice guys so I agree with you about losing faith a little bit.
Though I didn't know what Saville had been up to, he was never one of my favourite characters and some of the others involved I never gave much thought to, but Rolf Harris,.... well it just shows you never can tell.

There again consider how many terrorists, serial killers and rapists have turned out to be someones best neighbour.

Re: Total shock.
 

You go through life and observe things around you. You study hard and read a lot of books. Near to the end of the process you look in the mirror and see a well-adjusted, intelligent, normal human being.

Well, mirrors tell lies. You know next to nothing. The world is full of Rolf Harrises that haven't even been found yet. Most of them never will be.

You can't even keep it simple. I've never trusted people with beards. But Savile didn't have one, did he?

Re: Total shock.
 

Bizarre statement?

Harris was first questioned over these charges in March this year!

Re: Total shock.
 

I was shocked that at over 80 years old and he is/was downloading porn involving young children.:thumbdown: Makes one wonder what other things he was up to between the charges.

Re: Total shock.
 

well at least it didn't involve 'Two Little Boys'

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Yeh but what about the poor bloody kangaroo ?

At least now we know why he wanted it tying down. :cool:

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as said above, it has been rumbling around for several months during which he has been back to oz and done a show or two and been well received.

I am sure many here can look back to the time when they were in early to mid 20's and think - there but for the grace of god go I.

I still believe that some of this is long range revenge, but waiting 50-60 years :ohmy:
and whose recollection is that correct as to what happened to whom, when and where after that time.
Just funny that it should all be now following on from the Saville thing.
:(

Re: Total shock.
 

Well no way am I tanning his hide.

What about you Mr. James ??

Re: Total shock.
 

...And what about the child porn he has been dowloading:blink: in 2012!

I always found him an irritating person but I liked the 2 little boys song, it will never sound the same again!

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Kangaroos must the only animals that go around punching people. I've often wondered why. Now I know.

Re: Total shock.
 

Innocent until proven guilty?

Re: Total shock.
 

True but in high profile cases like this the CPS will have been pretty sure of a conviction to actually charge him.

Re: Total shock.
 

Like they were with Andrew Lancel

Re: Total shock.
 

The Crown Prosecution Service make their decisions on a 60% probability of conviction.

But the CPS hadn't been invented in the 70s and early 80s, nor had DNA. The decision to commence proceedings would be made at local police level, Detective Inspector level for offences of rape and indecent assault.

There were no fancy victim suites either, in busy stations a scruffy interview office would be used and sympathetic women officers, specially trained for such cases, didn't exist.

So the DI would often have just a 14-year old girl victim, no corroborative evidence, and a celebrity accused with a fancy solicitor. If he wrote 'insufficient evidence' on the crime sheet, that would be the end of the matter, and he could get back to chasing armed robbers.

And crucially, if it was a travelling celebrity, the allegations made against him would not be on a central register, the police in London would not know of similar allegations made in other parts of the country.

It's all different now, and that's why these old crimes are coming to light many years later.

Re: Total shock.
 

Never heard of him.:(

Re: Total shock.
 

Not having a pop, just fed up of all these cases and media hype, your missus might know him

Andrew Lancel is an award winning English actor, producer and director. He is best known for his appearance as Frank Foster in the long-running ITV soap opera Coronation Street, and formerly in his role as DI Neil Manson in The Bill.

Was one of my fav tv drama actors, ill never see him the same again, but he got not guilty of 4 counts of sexual abuse

Re: Total shock.
 

I knew there would be a good reason why I'd never heard of him!

Re: Total shock.
 

Being totally prejudiced, I reckon our justice system in the UK to be the best and fairest in the world. What can be fairer than being judged by 12 of your fellow citizens?

Of course they make mistakes, but they're few and far between. I was going to quote OJ Simpson, but that's an American case, I can't think of a comparable British one.

It's different in our civil law, they don't have juries and the class system prevails. I was a plaintiff once, fighting against the establishment in the High Court. I had no chance.

Re: Total shock.
 

Happy to say that neither of us has ever watched even one episode of either.

Possibly that's why I have never heard of him.

Re: Total shock.
 

I am not quite so sure about that having seen and studied a little of different systems.

I'm inclined to think that our jury system allowing people to be judged by completely inexperienced amateurs is far from ideal and they are far too easily open to persuasion and being misled by cunning lawyers.

In my view having three properly trained professional adjudicators, much more able to recognise who is telling the truth, who is lying through their teeth and sort out the wheat from the shedfulls of chaff and the sheep from the goats, is a far better system.

Re: Total shock.
 

Unfortunately I can only speak for myself, no, never seen either, but my wife has been known to watch the soaps, though not a big fan. Not sure what it is the expats find so riveting, that most can't seem to do without their soaps!

Re: Total shock.
 

I'm half inclined to agree with you, but without the human element of 12 normal people, you're advocating justice dispensed by experts. It's a tiny step away from replacing them with computers, robots.

It might be the answer, once robots are advanced enough. If they're not you might get sentenced to a thousand years in prison for double parking.

Re: Total shock.
 

Lord only knows how many guilty as sin criminals have walked free due to the human factor after listening to a well presented sob story or the usual it wasn't me gov honest presentation.

It must be a real sickener and disheartening for the cops after all the time and effort they've put in to get justice only to see some evil professional criminal walk free again to carry on as before

Also works the other way of course with a very determined prosecutor stretching the truth or twisting the evidence against a poor lawyer and weak and innocent defendant automatically presuming because he/she didn't commit the crime there'd be a not guilty verdict.

If ever there was a job done by complete amateurs desperately in need of professional know how and experience, then English type jury service has got to be it in my book.

Re: Total shock.
 

So agree. Most Jurors seem really gullible. Have been a lot of cases where the Jury were aghast when after aquitting someone they have heard their previous form. Many are set free for a technicality with forensic evidence even though they are guilty.

Re: Total shock.
 

Unless one or more of those three is biased

Re: Total shock.
 

The possibility of bias or bribery and corruption could equally apply to any system, you don't need look any further than the USA to see that.

Re: Total shock.
 

However the more people you have in judgment the harder it would be to knobble all or a majority of them.

Not arguing Dick, I just don't know the answer.

Although recently when the UK and Gib separately took cases against Spain to the EU one of the three judges was Spanish :thumbdown:


Judge Rosario Silva de Lapuerta served for many years in the Spanish government and is the daughter of a founding member of what is now the Partido Popular

Re: Total shock.
 

I know of a case where the judge, prosecuting and defending counsel, and the defendant were all Freemasons. It was a guilty plea and there was no need for a jury. The only person surprised by the sentence was the court reporter, who was not a Freemason.

Re: Total shock.
 

I take your point, but look at the OJ jury for instance where any who were thought to be unsympathetic towards him were thrown out and for all he was guilty as sin it was common knowledge there would be a not guilty verdict.

As far as the EU Court is concerned, I would hardly consider it a valid comparison in view of the whole damned system being undemocratic and biased anyway.

No system is infallible, but given a corruption free trial, which is something we are expected to assume anyway until proven otherwise, I'd still go for the professional approach myself.

Re: Total shock.
 

Say no more, been there, got the T-shirt.

Re: Total shock.
 

Actor who plays Ken Barlow to be tried in Jan 2014. Another one that surprises me, although he may yet be found not guilty.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Roache

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I've only been called for jury service on one occasion and I was thrown out possibly because my views on general morality were known. The picked jury returned a no guilty vote.

Re: Total shock.
 

Utter bollocks! Prove it....

Re: Total shock.
 

This story has shocked me more than any of the ones involving celebrities - he will never face justice now as he has killed himself, but what a calculating, cynical monster he seems to have been:-


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukne...n-orphans.html

Re: Total shock.
 

Even worse in my eyes are the countless cases of UN officials in Africa taking advantage of their privileged positions in charge of distributing food and other supplies to abuse children.

They are fully aware that it's a paedos paradise and do all they can to get a posting down there and take full advantage.

I sometimes think that the UN is even more hypocritical than the Catholic Church.

Re: Total shock.
 

Watching the news this morning, it appeared as though the entire cast of Coronation Street was before the Crown Courts.

Re: Total shock.
 

When asked if he did Two Little Boy's in 1970 he said FU@K OFF that was Gary Glitter.

Re: Total shock.
 

You must be an avid soap fan to know that HBG.

Next thing you'll be starting a thread about the latest goings on in Coronation St. ;)

Personally I wouldn't recognise any one of them if they jumped up and bit me on the nose. :cool:

Re: Total shock.
 

from what they are being charged with it would appear that biting on the nose would not be intimate enough

:sneaky: