funinthesun

I am really worried about a family friend. He has been self employed here now for eight years. We are a bit concerned as he has told us that he is now two months behind with his mortgage and several months behind with his s.s. payments. This person gets plenty of work but with the amount of taxes etc. he has to pay each month he is really struggling to survive. He told me that just his s.s. payments, average taxes, insurances and accountants bill is costing at least 600 euros each month. I think he would be better off working cash in hand like a lot of others do. He is very proud and wants to do things right so he can hold his head high but at what cost the way he is going his family will be homeless soon. What would everyone else do. Can he tell the authorities he is no longer self employed and work cash in hand until he gets himself sorted out. Anyone had a similiar situation. They are a really nice family and have tried so hard to make a living here. they never go out, don´t have holidays, we are so worried about their situation.

mikelincs

His problem would be that once he stops being classed as self employed and paying autonomo, then his health cover will disappear, so he would need private health care for himself and any family he has there.

decon.YA

I cant answer for everybody else, but I would be heading back to the UK.

lynnxa

not now it won't

he'll be covered under the new rules, since he was registered as resident & doing tax returns before April 24th last year

his health card might be 'suspended' but it should be a simple task to get it reactivated - I know people who have done this

ionie

If he's behind with his soc sec payment then he'll probably soon find an embargo on his bank account. If he can find work here in Spain in the middle of this terrible crisis then I suspect that he'd do very well back in the UK. Everyone I know who left due to unemployment or money worries is doing fine in the UK.
He might get 'paro' (the dole). I think that self employed can get unemployment benefit if they stop work due to one of the following:
Unas pérdidas derivadas del ejercicio de su actividad en un año completo superiores al 40% de los ingresos o superiores al 30% en dos años consecutivos y completos. En ningún caso el primer año de inicio de la actividad computará a estos efectos.
Unas ejecuciones judiciales tendentes al cobro de deudas reconocidas por los órganos judiciales que comporten al menos el 50% de los ingresos correspondientes al ejercicio económico de la actividad del trabajador autónomo inmediatamente anterior.
La declaración judicial de concurso que impida continuar con la actividad, en los términos de la Ley 22/2003, de 9 de julio, Ley Concursal.
The info is here:
http://e-autonomos.es/blog/2012/08/r...-de-autonomos/
He gets nothing if he stops work on a voluntary basis.

decon.YA

That is the helpful info given out to people, in the hope that they wont understand enough to be able to claim.

I am a funcionario myself and frankly dont have a clue how it works-

snikpoh

He may or may not be - the implementation of this is VERY regional.

Valencia, for example, will NOT uphold this change!

Where you are, as I understand it, Alicante is your governing body and they are far more lenient.

lynnxa

yes, I understand that where you are they are being difficult (to say the least) - it's not a case of my area being lenient, they are simply following the rules

& generally I believe that the new rules ARE being applied

Domino

So how much is the accountant costing each month - surely that could be reduced to doing some of the books himself and getting a once a year run thru with another accountant.
IMHO the differences between and expensive and low cost accountants is marginal, and why pay thru the nose to keep them in a plush office with a way of life you can only dream of.

Sounds like the whole thing looks to be carrying out a real Risk Assessment and a SWAT analysis and see what comes out of the wringer.

`

ionie

Unas pérdidas derivadas del ejercicio de su actividad en un año completo superiores al 40% de los ingresos o superiores al 30% en dos años consecutivos y completos. En ningún caso el primer año de inicio de la actividad computará a estos efectos.
Unas ejecuciones judiciales tendentes al cobro de deudas reconocidas por los órganos judiciales que comporten al menos el 50% de los ingresos correspondientes al ejercicio económico de la actividad del trabajador autónomo inmediatamente anterior.
La declaración judicial de concurso que impida continuar con la actividad, en los términos de la Ley 22/2003, de 9 de julio, Ley Concursal.

I think I understand it:
One has to:
prove losses during the financial year, the loss must be 40% more than the current year's income (facturas) or the loss must be 30% higher than the income from the previous 2 financial years. The first year's trading doesn't count.
etc. but I think this is the bit that could help the friend.

Another option could be that as he is attracting enough business to support his family but not to pay autonimo then perhaps he could approach a buiness 'rival', offer to work for him under a contract (cheaper than autonimo - costs equal to 40% of salary) on the proviso that he continue to provide the customers.

I think he owes soc sec until he tells the soc sec office that he has given up work but if he stops 'voluntarily' as opposed to under specific terms he won't get any dole money.

funinthesun

Thank you for all the info.

angiescarr

I had a 'tight' time over Xmas and jan so my accountant suggested that I get my tax split into 'fraccion's so I could pay it over a few months I'm also one month late with my SS but it just couldn't be helped. Our income improves over spring and early summer. He will pay a fairly large extra percentage to pay late but if it's just a blip these might be routes for him. Make sure his accountant is putting through ALL his costs including the social security payments which are tax deductible. any extra costs for his home office if he has one. His petrol and vehicle payments. Even if he's running a family car he'll get half taken into account. And make sure he's claiming a refund of tax at the year end if his income is really low. My costs are very similar to his, and it's IVA that really hurts the very small business. If they really want to stay in Spain it might be sensible to downsize to a place with well water and a log burning stove which is how we get by! Yes there are many here who say it's not 'living the dream' to have to pull your horns in like this but it really is. Just not their dream. There's an inestimable pleasure in accepting the gift of vegetables or eggs from a thoughtful neighbour. Once you get over your English pride! Maybe we should start a thread about getting by during the 'crisis'!