lesley1802

Hi all

First of all, what a great forum, have found so much information so far.

Myself, my partner and our 2 daughters (12 and 11 just now) are thinking seriously of moving to Spain. We have a friend who moved there a few years back and have been thinking of it for some time.

We are not moving due to being dis-enchanted with Britain to any great degree but we live in Scotland and (as you will see below) we can work anywhere, the weather is not so good here and we do like the sun. However the cost of living is too much here and I don't see the point of moving somewhere else in the UK just for the sake of it. We want a better quality of life (ie a lower cost of rental, better weather etc) Might seem trivial but as you can imagine there is more involved to the decision.

I am not wearing rose tinted spectacles and understand that Spain is not perfect but from what we have found, is better than here

We work from home, all internet based so work is not an issue for us luckily. And as far as I am aware, because we are self employed we qualify for 2 years full healthcare through the DWP (I researched this but if this is incorrect in any way can someone advise?)

We are looking at the Murcia / Caba Roig area as this is where our friends are but are not going to limit ourselves.

We will be taking 6 months of Spanish courses before leaving (6 months is our time frame for the move) and we will have some savings. We will be looking to long term rent.

Other areas I am not so sure of. My questions really are:

Schooling - the most important area as far as we are concerned.
I am considering an International School - the fees are a bit steep but managable (just). and would like to hear any experiences of this. I have found a site that lists them and their fees but in the area we are looking does anyone know the options?

Also - Spanish state schools, we are also considering this (as we would be learning as much SPanish as possible before leaving) so would hope to give our girls the best start possible) if we were to choose this option - again, any experiences of this would be greatly appreciated.

Qualifications : are Spanish school qualifications recognised in the UK the same as ours? My fear is that if we move back, that the kids would not have the same job opportunities as those educated here - this may be a completely bakward way of thinking but I feel the need to ask so please I hope I don't cause offence.

Areas to live
If anyone has advice on what are the best areas to move to. I know we would like Mucia / Alicante etc but what are the best ex-pat communities etc - any advice here would be appreciated. I want to give our family the best start possible and make it as easy a transition as possible - I think that moving to a largely ex-pat area would be best - what does anyone else think?

Cost of living.
I am keen to know about any areas other than rent, utilities and schooling that are the main costs that we would need to know about - what taxes are there, fees etc - any help is appreciated.

I think that's it for now It's a start at least. If anyone has any other advice please let me know. All is much appreciated.

Many thanks

Lesley

lynnxa

hi - you're one of the lucky ones who can make the move!!

if you're working here though, you'll need to register as self-employed & then you'll get access to state healthcare anyway

school - the quals are fine in the UK - yes I'd put the elder child in International school - the younger one would fine in state school - they'd also have the advantage over british kids of being bi-lingual

I think where I live - Jávea, about halfway between Alicante & Valencia is the best place in the world - a good balance between expats of various nationalities & local Spanish - 2 International schools one of which is truly bi-lingual - & the state schools are good too, both of mine have been in the state system for 7 years & are doing absolutely fine .................... but then I'm biased

overall the cost of living isn't that different to the UK - especially when you have school age kids & choose Jávea - rents here are a bit higher than about half an hour away in any direction


I'm sure others will chime in with their advice too

lesley1802

Thanks lynnxa - much appreciated.

I think one of the biggest changes for me will be the cost of renting - we currently pay £895 per month rent plus almost £200 pcm in council tax - I have seen some 3 bed terraced with communal pool properties in the Cabo Roig area for 400 euros pcm which is a huge saving. Are there any other expenses with renting - ie equivellant to council tax etc / maintenance fees?

If we were to do 6 months of Spanish lessons - do you feel this would be enough for my daughters to enter state school?

Thanks

Lesley

lynnxa

oops - just read the ages of your daughters - 12 & 11 - I read 2 & 11!!!


I really wouldn't put either of them in State school - they'd be in or about to go into secondary school, which is only 4 years until they graduate

IMO & I'd be amazed if anyone disagreed, they'd have little to no chance of becoming fluent enough to study in Spanish & graduate at 16 - & in the Valencia/Alicante region they'd have to study in Valenciano, too

rents can vary tremendously - (I pay roughly what you do in the UK but have 5 bedrooms on a really 'upmarket' urb as far as facilities are concerned) & what you pay on top will partly depend on the contract - my landlord pays the 'council tax' though I'm sure it's buried in the rental charge

on my urb there are maintenance fees on top of the rent - other places I've lived it's been 'included'

Rosemary

As Concierge for the Spanish section of BE I would like to say hello and welcome.

BE is a very large expat website, so if you have problems finding your way around we have concierges who will try to direct you. The moderators for the Spanish forums are Mitzyboy and Fred James, moderators are there to ensure that the site runs smoothly within the rules of BE. Problems and complaints should always be addressed to a moderador who will look into the matter and deal with it efficiently and fairly. Our members who post in the Spain Forums are friendly and helpful with a wealth of knowledge of the issues of living in Spain. At the top of the page you will find a quirkily named thread called Free Beer which is full of important and useful information. Hope you enjoy your time participating in the forums.

Please let me know if you need any further help.

Rosemary

cricketman

I doubt very much whether a family of 4 working from home could live comfortably in a 400 euro per month rent. Make sure you check out the quality of these properties! I dont know your area but I'd think you'd be looking at at least 700 euros per month

Even the cheapest international school would be 300 euros per month per child. So 1300 euros per month before utilities. So it will most probably be more expensive than where you are in the UK.

Thats not saying you shouldnt do it. You can live cheaply in Spain but only if you compromise i.e. free education and a very basic small home. Your children are too old to go to Spanish state school unless they are already fluent in 2 or more languages

pixieve

Lynnxa is right! I moved here last year with my daughter who was 5 (6 now) and she was just at the age where she can become as fluent as a native spanish person. She attends a state school. Any older than that and it becomes more and more difficult, and there is no way an 11 and 12yr old would be able to become fluent, hence they wouldnt be able to sit the state exams. I definitely would go with an international school!

lynnxa

my girls were 5 & nearly 9 when they went into the spanish system - the older one was pretty much at the top age for starting without too many problems - she does have an amazing ability with languages though (excpet German... good job we didn't move there )

saying that - I know British kids who started in the state system age 6 & never settled or really became fluent enough in spanish to cope, and others of 12/13 who surprised everyone by sailing through!!

lynnxa

actually - you can get a large 4 bed duplex even in our high-rent town - not sure if it's on an urb with a pool though

lesley1802

Thanks everyone.

As I said before, it looks like it will be an International School - I did want to hear everyones thoughts on state schools but the comments seem to echo what I thought.

Im not sure about the 700 euro rent that was mentioned - this seems to be the size and quality of houses on offer http://www.thinkspain.com/spanish-property/1335250 for 450 euro - I think thats a great price and seems to be the norm for properties on all the sites we have seen - am I looking in the wrong place? Even at 700 euros though this is still so much less than in the uk.

I am more than willing to make compromises when moving - my lovely (but obscene and un needed) 6 bed detached with twin garage will gladly be changed for a 3 bed house in Spain with what I feel would be a better life for our family - we seem to spend a lot on a house JUST to have a nice big house but there must be more to life than that. I haven't actually heard anyone say anything majorly negative about moving to Spain and can only go on feedback from our friends who are already there and various stories on the forums - that it can be better for us.

For work we need a desk and computer so space is not an issue - I dont see how a family of four wouldnt be able to live comfortably in a 3 bed house.

We pay over £1200 just now just for rent, tax and insurance, then another £150 pcm for gas and elec, then broadband, phone, gardner - it all adds up! and for a bit more than this in Spain I would get rent AND an INternational school - which from what I can tell so far, are highly recommended. IN Scotland we could never afford a private school.

More specifically, can anyone pinpoint highly ex-pat populated (and recommended) areas in Murcia/Valencia. It would certainly help narrow down our choices. We are looking for a good amount of ex-pats, with good local amenities and not too far from an INternational School and a beach close by would be nice - I don't ask for much!

I am sure there will be areas that pop into peoples minds and would love to hear suggestions so I can do some more research

Many thanks so far for all the feedback guys

Cheers

Lesley

lesley1802

Hi Lynnxa

Thats what I thought - I see even 4 beds in this price range. Where I fall down though is not knowing if I am looking in the right areas - thats why Im hoping some folk can point me in the right direction of urbs that would be recommended, high ex-pat numbers, close to international school and good ammenities.

Heres hoping

Thanks

Lesley

pixieve

Wow, i thought my 2 bedroom apartment for €550 a month was cheap! But thats including all utilities, and i live right in the city centre in el barrio. Thats pretty cheap for the location i suppose.

bob_bob

Hi Lesley

Think hard and do your maths, food is not cheaper in Spain than the UK by any means the only money saved would be if your an alcoholic chain smoker

International School for both would be essential, budget €400 a month each so €800

Rent say €500

Utils maybe €150

Broadband (overall not even close to the UK in speed and reliability) will cost you €50-€100

Food, family of four depending how well you eat is €350 at the average end

You self employed contributions are 250x2 so €500 regardless if you generate income or not.

Vehicle, fuel ect no idea but say €100

You'll have no change from €2500 a month and you ain't living high at all

Spanish houses in the main are not built for the cold winters you will get, so expect cold and damp winters and look at the pictures of that house, it has small rooms, very small for four.

Another major consideration is that in seven or eight years you'll have two children who will need to go back to the UK for university as their Spanish skills won't be enough really for Spanish uni.

Ill health stopped me moving over full time and even now I'm getting stronger I'll only go for maybe half the year.

Its been said here before that Spain is a great place to retire to IF you have income and it is but think very very long and hard about what you do. Personally if I were you I'd downsize in the UK, wait until the children get to UK uni and then move to Spain with money in the bank...its only a few years away for you.

Good luck with whatever you choose.

JLFS

with 6 months Spanish lessons in the UK, there will be practically no chance of your children being able to keep up in a Spanish state school.

It is tough enough changing schools at 12 or thereabouts, but in a different language it would be really awfull.

Most 12 year old who start state school, usally end up being niether fish or fowl so to speak, and dont often pick up the language due to the fact that they usually mix socially with other native English speakers, watch British tv, as that easily available in Spain, and that the people that the associate with out of school will most probably be other expats.

And in places like Cabo Riog, even more so.

lesley1802

HI All

I have done my sums but thanks for listing. This is not a quick decision. I know what I would have to spend and what the cost of these things actually are and what we can get them for (according to my friend who has all of these bills and who has lived there for 7 years now - some things that have been listed above are a lot dearer than they actually cost - BUT as per the original post - I am looking to find out about any expected costs like taxes etc that may not immediately be known - utilities, food etc is common sense but if anyone can think of the "extras" I would be much appreciative.

We want to make the move now, we do understand our kids may want to come back. We do have savings and we earn approx £4,000 between us as self employed - I will have to ask you to trust me that we know what we are doing. If down sizing is what we wanted then we would do that but thanks for the suggestion.

As I have already said, we have agreed on the International school route after ruling out state schools based on the advice given on this post.

As above, we have covered schools - thanks to everyone for the advice given but I am still needing advice on the other main area that I came on for - ie advice on looking in the right areas - thats why Im hoping some folk can point me in the right direction of urbs that would be recommended, high ex-pat numbers, close to international school and good ammenities.

To be more specific, we are looking seriously at El Palmar school http://www.ellimonarinternational.com/en/contacto.html and any help on high ex-part concentrated areas close to this would be great.

Many thanks

Lesley