Wanderindoll

I understand the 183 day ruling so, if I came to Spain on July 1st, stayed until December 31st= 183 days in 2016, then stayed until June 2017 then left until the end of the year=183 days in year 2. Is this legal???? I am looking at moving to Denia next year, my budget for everything is around €1350 per month. I don't drink or smoke, love to buy recycled stuff and to walk most places. I will, probably, have a motor scooter so will have to factor insurance etc. I am an early retiree, still a few years away from the official pension. Thanks in advance for any advice and for all of the info on the forum

Rosemary

Hi and a warm welcome to the Spanish forum on BE. Myself and Fred James are the moderators for the Spanish forums whilst BEVS moderates Europe. Moderators are there to ensure that the site runs smoothly within the rules of BE. This is so that members gain the information that they are looking for and find their experiences on the forums to be friendly and worthwhile.

Problems and complaints should always be addressed to a moderator who will look into the matter and deal with it efficiently and fairly. Our members who post in the Spain Forums are usually friendly and helpful with a wealth of knowledge about the issues of living in Spain. I hope that you enjoy your time participating in the forums.

Please let me know if you need any further help.

Rosemary

Dick Dasterdly

Don't think so.
I believe it's only up to 183 days in any 365 day period.

bobd22

I believe that in those circumstances you would not be in breach of the 183 day rule i.e. you would not become liable for Spanish income tax or required to complete the 720 form declaring assets etc. The reason for that is I believe the 183 days relates to within the tax year which as you say is 1 January to 31 Dec. However legally if staying in Spain for a period longer than 90 days you should sign on the foreigners register which entails all that applying for residency does, I.e. income proof of address contract or esrutira and medical cover.

Dick Dasterdly

Having checked on it, I believe you are right Bob.
The 183 days in any 365 does apply to some countries, but as regards Spain it applies only to the tax year.

snikpoh

Why try so hard to avoid paying tax in Spain?

You MUST pay tax somewhere so why not in Spain?

What's the big issue that you're trying to avoid?

Wanderindoll

I pay tax in the UK, I don't own property anywhere. I don't want to get involved with moving tax affairs until I know where I am going to be resident. It probably will be Spain but I really don't know at this stage

snikpoh

... makes sense.

CapnBilly

Well, it may be me, but that's a 184 days in 2016

missile

I know several who ignore this (and several other regulations :-( ) No one seems to check

Leper

This Rule is another stupid piece of Spanish bureaucracy which the EU has allowed them to get away with. I know we don't have a United States of Europe, but like it or not, it is what we are heading to, eventually.

I know many many non Spanish EU people who just ignore the Rule. Afterall, we are all Europeans. I have no doubt there are reasons for the Rule, but whatever way you look at this, it is a Spanish solution to a Spanish problem and the Spaniards instead of biting the bullet just impose their solutions on all non Spaniards.

I have never seen any EU person expelled, fined, imprisoned as a result of the Rule.

bobd22

It is not a Spanish only rule as all EU countries use a set amount of days to determine when you should pay tax to that country, including the UK . Same with the 90 day rule which I believe is an EU rule. Or are you referring to the requirement to comply with the basic residency requirements if staying longer than 90 days. If so then yes if you stay in your holiday home say for 100 days who is going to bother with that rigmarole I agree.
Reality is and this is only my view if you are a second home owner and go over either of these limits set by a short period but do in fact split your time between Spain and UK and pay non resident tax then I can't see really what the great issue is. So far I have never exceeded the 183 day rule but have gone a few days over the 90 day Per visit by the odd couple of days. I certainly would not consider going through all that is entailed for 2 or 3 days, by the way reason for those couple of days was difference in travel costs nothing more. There will also be many like myself that if say they stayed 190 days and went through whole procedure of tax declaration would pay nothing in tax in my case because my only income is from Government pensions. So for a few days the whole thing would just be an expensive paperwork exercise as I would need to pay someone to do the paperwork.
In my experience I find the people that seem more interested in how long I am there and watching the days (I stress so far not gone over 183) are those that were under the radar completely for years until terrified by the 720 declaration! Maybe the op's calculation was 1 day over but so what? Maybe in that period they may pop back to UK or into Portugal etc.
I understand real tax fraud etc and those trying to get away with paying no tax anywhere but that is a different issue. Look further afield as far as EU countries are concerned they have thousands coming over no passport nothing are they counting their days? Are the French counting the days of all the people camped out at Calais? I would say know the rules and try to abide by them if you go the odd day over make your own decision sensibly and get on with your life while you can.

Fred James

Absolute rubbish!

Assuming you are referring to the tax rule, as Bob said, almost all countries in the EU have the same 183 day rule (or less), all that differs is the dates of the tax year.

If you think it's a stupid rule, then look at the UK tax residency rules - it is possible to be classified as tax resident after less than 30 days in the UK.

Wanderindoll

I just want to stay legal, keep it simple and not pay more tax than I really have to- who does? I've tried googling it and I think I'd pay more tax in Spain as the allowances are lower and I've nothing to claim for. Maybe I should become a nomad and not be resident anywhere

Fred James

Becoming a Fical Nomad is possible, but quite difficult. For example, if you are currently a UK tax payer with income arising in the UK (such as pensions, State or private) and move, you will find it nigh on impossible to get HMRC to stop deducting tax from them unless you can prove that you are now paying the tax on that income somewhere else.

I tried it once and the taxman succinctly said that "I was not getting off his hook until I could show that I was on someone else's hook".