lynnxa

to be fair though a lot of people have been wrongly advised about this

I know someone who was advised by their accountant here in Spain to keep non-resident bank accounts even though they are resident & even though they have quite a decent (high) income from pensions & other things, that they don't need to do a tax declaration here

it's all hitting the fan atm for them

Fred James

And it's bound to get worse as Hacienda try and claw back as much unpaid tax and fines as they can.

Rajoy says he isn't going to increase taxes but they could raise a few billion by clobbering those that haven't paid what they should have paid.

CapnBilly

I am always amazed that people who live permanently in a country think they are "not taking anything out of the Spanish system". Just by being in a country you are benefitting from the security and protection provided by the government (police, army etc), and who do you think pays for the infrastructure ? - err the Government. The Government has no money, it is all raised from the people through taxes, both direct and indirect, but you can't pick and choose which you want to pay.

angiescarr

Well said. And welcome:-) People just don't realise. and some of these same people are the ones who complain about 'immigrants taking from our system' in the UK, even when those 'immigrants' work and pay their taxes!
We choose to live here and we should live by Spanish rules. Sure we can complain about them. (And my beef is we should be able to vote). But we still have to fit into the Spanish system. Just as we expect people who want to live in England to live by English rules and laws.
Get a gestor and declare your income. You might find that you get some or all back if your income is low. I do. Yes, you have to wait until August or September to get it back (you pay quarterly). But that's the way the system works...for everybody in a fair world.

snikpoh

You only pay quarterly if you are autonomo - surely?

MOST of us do just one tax return every June.


You'd be surprised - I thought I didn't 'pay in' (as I don't work or get a pension), but I still get a rebate every year!

HBG

I pay my tax in Spain just as I did in England, and like everyone else I would like to pay as little as possible without breaking the law.

I've found that in Spain, if possible, it's best to stay under the radar. The system is different and sometimes hard to understand, which is why people often need a Gestor to advise them.

Hacienda is going flat out under the new austerity drive to claw back taxes and they're not taking prisoners, and foreigners are an easy target.

And rebates? That's just rabbit hole stuff.

snikpoh

Que?

Are you (trying) to say that it doesn't happen?

angiescarr

Yep, You're right I think.

angiescarr

If you are trying to say it doesn't happen I can attest that it does. I got a significant wedge paid back to me two years running. And extra early this year. I think they've got a more efficient system this year. Of course, if you're an Autonomo and your products are IVA-able you'll not get that back, Just a reduction for the VAT/IVA you've paid out.

HBG

I can only tell it the way I've found it over the years. When you enter a place of officialdom in Spain as an expat, you're in enemy territory. The usual practice is that after eventually getting to the front of the queue, you will be handed a Modelo of some sort (there are many of them), with instructions to take the form to the nearest bank and pay a fee. That's before they've even taken your name.

It's highly unlikely that you will have all the correct documents in place after your second queuing, and even if you have they are likely to ask for something nobody has ever thought of before.

And about rebates. Neither I nor any of my friends have ever had a rebate from a Spanish institution, whether it's Hacienda, Telefonica, or any of the other utility companies. I know for a fact that most of them have a computer system not programmed for rebates.

And I've never heard a funcionario say the word Sorry, they're not trained for it.

(And if you live in an area covered by the Costa Blanca News and look at today's font page, you will find a partial explanation - they're too busy surfing for porn with rate payers money to bother about a daft thing like rebates).

elfallero

In the 10 years that I've been working in Spain I have received a rather decent rebate every year (circa 1k€). I've also found Hacienda to be very efficient. They send me an SMS text message in April saying that my draft tax return is available for consultation online. I look at it and make any adjustments. I OK it, and bingo, 10 days later the refund is in my bank account. No paper or gestor is involved. I don't actually know why I get the refund though. I guess my employer pays too much tax from my salary each month for some reason. It's the same with mi mujer as well.

lynnxa

I've had rebates from Telefonica

Fred James

Clearly you haven't been involved with Hacienda.

If you make an appointment (the only option) to go in and get them to help you with your tax declaration you will find them very helpful, even surprised that you have bothered!

You do not need reams of paperwork, they don't even want to see your UK P60's. You just tell them your personal details and how much income you have and they will put it into their computer and print out the forms for you to take to the bank to pay your tax.

Try doing that with the UK HMRC and you will think it is the Spanish Inquisition again!

HBG

I suppose Spain is such a vast country with so many different regions which have different practices.

Here's my recent experience with the tax office, Suma, the road tax one, in Torrevieja. I had sold on a car and registered the sale with Trafico and the local Suma office (and probably God as well).

This year I found that I had paid the Suma on the sold car, I think it was by bank standing order. Anyway, I attended the office with all my paper evidence, and was turned away. I returned with my secret weapon, my wife, who is as Spanish as can be, although she was born in London.

A different lady, it seemed to be all ladies in this busy office, dealt with my wife and was as rude as the rest of them. But she made a fatal mistake when she tried to be rude in Valeniano, my wife having learned her Spanish in Barcelona, many years ago.

The air turned blue and I blushed at such language, mostly from my angry wife. A lady supervisor came out of her back office and invited my wife and I into her office. Tranquillity and peace returned immediately and the supervisor admitted that Suma owed us around 80 Euros.

But she then politely explained that Suma only collected money, they didn't have a system in place to pay it out. She jokingly took out her purse and offered to pay it from her own money, but she only had 15 Euros in her purse.

HBG

No, not recently Fred. My personal circumstances haven't changed much for a few years now and I use a Gestor. I must admit I'm a bit worried now because some of my friends also have Civil Service pension taxed at source in the UK, and Hacienda are now asking for that tax to be paid in Spain as well. For the first time, I believe.