thatmtnman

Dear Members,

I'm strongly considering the big move to Spain. EU passport makes it easy they say. But does it? If some of the members would comment on their highs and lows of moving and living in Spain, (as well as suggestions for areas to live), I would appreciate your input!

Many many thanks!

Frank

sibsie

Firstly you have to bear in mind that Spain is a huge country with differing languages, climates, economics and cultures. Your experience living in Madrid or BCN is going to be vastly different to the Costa Blanca, del Sol or the north of Spain etc.,

You need to decide on a region of Spain and sort out what your motivation is for moving there first.

I lived in the Northern Costa Blanca for two years. I didn't like it. In a nutshell my main reasons for not liking it was the high crime rate, lack of opportunities, boredom, pettiness of expat life and unwillingness (understandable) of the locals to intergrate with outsiders. I'm glad I tried it but if I had my time again I wouldn't have made the move.

meseta

Hi Frank,
I do believe that any such move, no matter where, is a personal experience. Therefore it is one which you have to feel first hand. Of course you will be given a load of advice/anecdote etc from all the ' experts ' , ( I've been living her for years.........blah blah ) but there's simply no substitute for making the move.
Here in Southern Spain, about 30 minutes away from the Coast near Malaga, my wife and I have a very relaxed and pleasant existance, the climate is benign, ( although this morning we have some very welcome cloud ! ) and the relaxed atmosphere in our village makes life a pleasure. As far as integrating or not integrating with local or any other nationality is concerned, thats not what we came here for, these things assume a differrent importance level to different people; as do many other areas of life.

We came to look for a better quality of life and that we have found.

Good luck ! If I can help with any pms', just ask, I'll help if I can.

lynnxa

I agree with all that the others have said, except to bear in mind that your experience in any area will not be the same as anyone elses.

We live in the nearest large town to where Sibsie lived. We have been here a year & we love it. Yes, there are some petty ex-pats, but you don't have to mix with them, just as you wouldn't get on with everyone in your 'home town' in UK. Yes. there is crime, but so is there everywhere.

On the whole, we have found the locals to be welcoming & accepting, especially if you take the trouble to learn the language & fit in with their way of life rather than expect them to adapt to English ways.

I'm not saying that Sibs didn't do this, just that this is our experience. Maybe having kids helps, since they - many nationalities - mix together here on the beach & so on, and you find yourself talking to people who may not have spoken to you otherwise.

Mercedes

I must admit I was like Sibs, I hated it here when I first came here, mainly because I came on my own and the expats I met either were old, nutters, criminals, tried to rip me off, or had deep psycological problems or bloody nosey, or all of the above.......Apart from that.....

The problem got solved when I moved into a spanish community and I had some great neighbours. The other problems got solved as now I'm mostly overseas so am based here for 2 weeks at a time (until recently) and then shoot off. I think it harder if you are female and single, if you come with a partner and family you have some instant support usually and I think it's easier for them. Crime wise only happened when I was in an expat community, since I've moved into a spanish community so far touch wood I haven't had any problems. I think its a great place for retirees, and families but as a single youngish female, no. Too many nutters, luckily my partner flies over to me when I'm here so its more tolerable now, but if I was still single and not working overseas, I wouldnt stay here. Yeh I know nutters etc live everywhere, but for some reason there seem to be more here especially in the expat communities. I've spent 15 years living overseas and I think it's been worse here.

sibsie

I totally agree with Mercedes. I moved over as a single chick and the Spanish are still very machismo which does make it hard work. Spanish women simply don't behave like British women so it's a totally different social life. The Spanish way is more centered around the family which again makes it a lot harder to fit in as an outsider, especially if you don't have kids. Every single expat I know out there says they mix with the Spanish but I can't remember even one time when I've been out and about and I've seen a Spanish family out in a bar or restaurant with Brits. Honestly I can't.

My nearest village was a small one where people started speaking in Valenciano as soon as they heard a foreigner. It was very isolating especially as I'd worked so hard on my Spanish. On balance though I did have more Spanish and South American friends than I did English. That was probably because I played tennis and made the effort to get opponents who weren't English. Had it not been for that I really doubt I'd have made any Spanish friends at all! The Dutch were great too and seemed a lot more welcoming.

I also agree with the expats comments, especially the 10%ers. Everyone out there seems to be out to make a buck off you. They reinvent themselves, can be hideously gossipy and very small minded. There's lots of sitting round the pool drinking, going out to bars drinking and I've never come across so many alcholics in such a small area! Great if you want to spend your life drinking cheap wine and beer, but that's not what I was after.

thatmtnman

Many thanks for everyones generous comments! I will be going with my girlfriend (who happnes btw to be an shrink specializing in addictions! LOL!!). I will be working for myself in the internet world, and so will be 'semi' retired. Not sure if my gal will work or not (though it sounds like she might have a lot of clients! LOL!!). I am guessing that the reason we all are interested in Spain is the weather, and the inexpensive real estate?

I wanted to ask...everyone mentions 'crime'. What kind of crime are we talking about? Are expats being found floating in the med or what, is it safe for the girlfirend to walk at night? As well..there were several references to 'pettiness' . Can someone elablorate?

I am thinking of the south coast, if I can get a broadband internet connections, and somewhere near an ariport as I would fly fairly frequently.

Any comments would be greatly appreciated.

thatmtnman

I have a ton of questions if you do not mind answering! LOL!!

meseta

go for it !

thatmtnman

Thank you for the kind offer!

So...bascially we are very quiet people in our mid 50's. We have cats, and we bascially read, write, and follow our athletic interests. I also play a lot of tennis. We'll probably have more books and sports equiment than anything else when we move! LOL!

So some practical questions if I may. What is the availablity and cost of broadband internet connections, and how long does it take to get them?

We keep seeing a ton of 'vacation rentals' which seem vastly overpriced. What would a reasonable price for a modern 900 sq foot flat be in the less touristy areas? Is there anyone who could help us with finding a reasonable 6 month rental while we get orientated?

On a lifestlye question, how do you find the lifestyle there? What are the amenities like in availability and in quality? One person said they got bored very quickly from nothing to do. Another suggested that if you weren't in the bars drinking then there was not much to do.

How have the Spanish treated new comers? What is the crime issue about?

Many thanks

Frnak

sibsie

The crime issue is mainly street robberies and burglaries. I was really unlucky and had more than a few of them. Two with violence. My local Guardia had a feeling that I was targetted as I lived on my own. I can't think of anyone I knew there who hadn't been the victim of crime in one way or another. I do think the crime rate is higher than at home or at least it's concentrated in a small area. I lived in London for 35 years, DC for a year and never had the problems I had in Spain. That being said I always felt safe walking around at night, but you do have to keep a hold of your bags and not look too foreign.

Weather wise, bear in mind that winter can be cold and very very wet. You do need some form of heating over there.

My advice is to try the lifestyle before you buy. Give it a good six months or so before you commit to anything. If you like it, stay, if it's not for you then you haven't cut your losses.

meseta

Hi Frank,
Personally, I believe the crime stats vary tremendously according to area. In the more touristy areas there the incidence of petty crime is probably fairly high. The coastal strip around Malaga, especially to the west, must present rich pickings for the criminal element, particularly those coming in from the newly acquired EU countries. The local English speaking press have many sad tales of small time theft. Most of it seems to be opportunistic, and reasonable, sensible procautions will preclude your being a target, as they will then tend to move to easier victims.

We have no security concerns walking in our local area, day or night. If we had, we would be moving again !

I too am in my early 50's, having retired from my lifetime career, and started my own business. We, too, enjoy the 'quiet life '. We have two cats who have settled here after being broght from the UK, to Saudi Arabia, and back again. They seem quite happy to have settled in one place !

Broadband, depends on where you want to live. We are about 25 km from Malaga and our adsl kit arrived in the post about 5 days after ordering it. In the last couople of weeks I have started using Telefonica's wireless gear which installed perfectly. The adsl service costs about 37 euros a month. ( 500/128 )

I think its true that one can become bored anywhere in the world you are ! We enjoy some theatre, cinema, ( english or spanish sound, your choice ! ) We walk the local countryside, and WILL be repairing those bikes to cycle ( yes, sure ! )

As far as the bars are concerned, there's no obligation to repair to them at every opportunity ! We do eat our every few days, but only to local restaurants, where the quality, we have found , is usually excellent. A meal for two with a bottle of house, is usually about 25€.

On the weather front.......... Here are some stats...

Malaga, Spain
Elevation: 7 meters Latitude: 36 40N Longitude: 004 29W

Average Temperature Years on Record: 21

YEAR Jan. Feb. Mar. Apr. May Jun. Jul. Aug. Sep. Oct. Nov. Dec.
°C 17 11 12 13 15 18 22 24 25 23 18 15


Average High Temperature Years on Record: 21

YEAR Jan. Feb. Mar. Apr. May Jun. Jul. Aug. Sep. Oct. Nov. Dec.
°C 12 16 16 18 20 23 26 28 29 27 23 19


Average Number of Days With Precipitation Years on Record: 21

YEAR Jan. Feb. Mar. Apr. May Jun. Jul. Aug. Sep. Oct. Nov. Dec.
Days 8 8 7 9 6 3 1 1 3 8 9 9

Average Number of Days Above 70F/21C Years on Record: 21

YEAR Jan. Feb. Mar. Apr. May Jun. Jul. Aug. Sep. Oct. Nov. Dec.
1 3 8 11 25 30 31 31 30 26 8 2


Average Number of Days Below 32F/0C Years on Record: 21

YEAR Jan. Feb. Mar. Apr. May Jun. Jul. Aug. Sep. Oct. Nov. Dec.
Days 1 --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- ---


Hope this helps !

Next question please


meseta

jdr

Just borrowed this from Sur in English written by John Sutton, hope he doesn`t mind, I think it is excellent and it will give you an idea about driving etc.....

"Many people come and live in Spain, learn some Spanish and are surprised when things they don’t understand happen. Let me help.

Mañana: This is a word that is absolutely misunderstood by Brits. Basically,it means definitely not today. End of story.

Mañana, tarde: Some afternoon in the not too distant future.

Caro: Something you are selling. Barato: Something they are selling.

Driving: Indicator lights are to make the corners of cars look pretty or to indicate a direction that the driver of the vehicle concerned has no intention of taking.

Always give way to the vehicle on the roundabout, unless it looks like a rental car full of tourists who have left their credit card details with the rental company, or you are driving a four wheel drive with bullbars. It’s more fun on a roundabout if you start on the right-hand lane when you intend to take the third or fourth exit off it. It helps develop other drivers’ mind-reading skills.

One way streets are for foreigners, or locals who are not in a hurry.

Red traffic lights are optional with caution. Flashing amber lights with an arrow pointing right means that its OK to stay and chat to your pal in the next car until his light turns red.

Pedestrian crossings are merely a device to test the nerves of pedestrians or their faith in fellow man. From a motorist’s point of view it is a place where you can usually find somewhere to park.

Double parking: This is usually a bone of contention for the non-Spanish. It’s a wonderful Spanish tradition, because we can do it as well. Try double parking in a city in the UK and you’ll have a ticket before you have closed the car door. How civilised: if you want a pack of cig,s or a postcard, double park the car and go and get it.

I should mention that roundabouts are traditionally the place for two vehicles to stop and exchange pleasantries.

Signs that say“no left turn� onto a main road are placed there by an official with a wicked sense of humour.

Two-wheeled motor vehicles are for people who have very little road sense and they ride them until they have lost this small amount of knowledge and can move onto a four-wheeled vehicle or have put themselves out of the picture altogether.

Occasionally you will see letters in English-speaking papers asking whether Spain has heard of European directive blablabla; they probably have and decided that applied to other countries and good luck to them.

The peseta used to be the currency of Spain before Euro MPs started interfering and the Spanish people are loath to give it up. That is why some prices are still quoted in pesetas and if you are buying or selling something privately the Spanish want to discuss the price in their proper currency not some made up rubbish that they don’t really want to be part of.

So there you are. A short rough guide to living in Spain. Many foreigners (especially Brits) will want to change things. I don’t. If it’s good enough for the Spanish then it’s fine by me."

lynnxa

Amber lights mean 'put your foot on the accelerator' on no accounts slow down or stop because the spaniard behind will definately not...........

absolutely true...........checked with the local police


just leave your handbrake off & they'll move your car & put it back for you

absolutely - seen it many a time


& don't forget - the riders may look like children.................because they are

sibsie

One thing I really miss is the Spanish driving. From that point of view alone I felt that the place was my spiritual home.