Struggling to settle
 

I live in northern spain with my husband who works here and our children.

Now the children have settled, speak the language well and have friends with other Spanish children, but for me its a struggle. It's a struggle because I am not fluent yet although its only been 8 months.

I love living up here but I feel that I will never be fluent and have a real "friend" to talk to. It can be lonely day to day.

Does it take long to get to the fluent stage? What are other people's experience? How can I speed up learning?

Thanks.

Re: Struggling to settle
 

Welcome to this forum.
It does depend on your skills. One of us took longer than the other.
There are a few posters from Galicia but there are none from over the border!

Re: Struggling to settle
 

It's a piece of string question.

To be honest, if you all speak English with each other at home then it will take you many, many, many years to become fluent. If you have Sky TV, add another few more years to that too.

On the other hand, if you are studying the grammar, and practice speaking only Spanish for several hours a day then you'll feel confident within a fairly short period of time. And by short a mean a year or two (assuming you started from zero).

Tell us what practice you are putting in....how many hours a day do you speak Spanish v English? How much studying are you doing? How many hours Spanish tv do you watch daily?

Re: Struggling to settle
 

Totally agree. If someone wants to be a fluent in the language then they could do no worse than to watch local television, in particular quiz shows with their repetitive phrases. Stick on the subtitles on Teletext, have a dictionary within reach and things should improve markedly in a few weeks. Not watching English-language TV like Sky would be beneficial as well. It can be difficult at first but we've not had English TV for over seven years and our own language fluency improved rapidly. Also handy is to have little Post-It notes around the house with the Spanish translations for everyday items. Speak Spanish to each other, even if it might be wrong, to encourage confidence in using the language. Best of all, frequenct a local bar, get to know the owners and the regulars and then your fluency will shoot through the roof ...

John C

Re: Struggling to settle
 

agree 100% with the others. With full immersion it will be maybe 2 years. If your house is completely English with English TV, books and newspapers, maybe you'll never be fluent

Re: Struggling to settle
 

John am I correct in thinking you live in Javea?

Re: Struggling to settle
 

Indeed I do.

John C

Re: Struggling to settle
 

its depends in you lifestyle as alreayd has been said

my oh put in many hours daily studying books ( he had only a couple of lessons) but was immersed in Spanish daily because of work so had no choice but to learn

I on the other hand had lots of lessons but lacked self confidence

I believe you have to throw yourself in at the deep end. We did have more Spanish friends than English and socialised with the parents from our sons football team for example....a downside to that was that on many occasions they spoke to each other in Valenciano and assumed we could understand :confused: at timesw e could but other times we were totally lost !! ...ont know if you would have that issue where you are ?

hang in there, its a big step moving to another country and learning a new language, give yourself time :thumbsup:

Re: Struggling to settle
 

I personally don´t think it is the language issue. It is the friendship issue. Okay you can become fluent - after five years I am not but can hold a conversation with my neighbours, have a Spanish friend etc but real friendship goes much deeper and it takes time and common interests. My daughter lived in Sydney for nearly two years and then out of the blue she phoned up and said she was coming home because she wanted to be with people who really knew her. We can all have a lot of aquaintances but it is the real friends who are important. It is all very well to learn the language and very important but you need to make friends quickly. Are there any groups there that you could join? An exercise class or a Spanish language group? Anything really to get out and meet people. One of my best friends here I met at the hairdressers four years ago just by striking up a conversation about going to Spanish lessons. I now don´t know what I would do without her. I also think it is far more important for women to have friends than for men especially in the low times.

Re: Struggling to settle
 

Thanks for the replies.

I have spanish tv on most of the time - but don't get to sit and watch much. Maybe half an hour a day if I'm lucky plus the kids like their cartoons on Clan.

I used to be quite good at studying - mainly when the kids were at school and I was in a good routine. However the past month they have been off and so has my studying. I am just so tired. Perhaps I just need to get myself motivated again. I did do some yesterday for about an hour.

We do speak together as a family in English at home - I might try the idea of speaking just spanish together.

I do have opportunity to practice my spanish. My kid's have a great social life and when I meet up with the other mum's, I can't make much conversation because I don't know all the words to express myself. So frustrating!

Also, I have tried to find a tutor but none in my town. There is one 8 km away down the motorway but until the kids are back at school, I can't get to.

If it takes 2 years or so to become fluent that would be encouraging. It seems at the moment it's never going to happen.

Re: Struggling to settle
 

You only need to learn enough to be comfortable, I would say it is very hard for a foreigner to be fluent.
Keep speaking with the other mums, I am sure they will help out if you mention it to them, the more conversations you have the easier it will get. ;-)

Re: Struggling to settle
 

Can't add more to the language issue,however, what is a "real friend"?
I could never replace the pals in UK so comparing is pointless, so you settle for good acquaintances.
It's a trade off when you move.

All the best

Re: Struggling to settle
 

I think it's a bit different in Asturias than on the coast. If you dont speak good/fluent Spanish in Astrurias you literally have noone to talk to. There are no English communities there.

Not only that, the Spanish people there arent used to speaking to foreigners, so your Spanish has to better in order for them to understand you.

So there is no hiding place, but the positive side is you have to improve your langauge to make it work... so you will make the effort :)

Re: Struggling to settle
 

Spot on!

I need to get to a certain level of Spanish to be understood and to understand!

Before we came, I hoped to find a tutor or find some English speakers - it is so unlike the costas - I am literally on my own and there is no hiding place.

Thanks for your replies.

Re: Struggling to settle
 

It all depends on what you describe as fluent. My experience has always been that the more seriously you take the language, the more fluency evades you, because it always seems to be out of reach. There will always be people you can't understand, words you don't know and grammar that you haven't grasped.

Don't let that put you off. Back when I was learning German, when I used to struggle and get disheartened, my tutor used to stop the lesson and go back 5 lessns or so. After that he would point out that a month or so ago I found that hard.

I learnt an important lesson from that, and I hope you do to. Don't mark your progress by what you can't do. Look back and be amazed at how far you have come.

If it is any help, look for patterns in grammar that make learning easy and memorable.

I was wrestling with the preterit a while back, and spotted something that I never spotted before. There's a bunch of verbs that are very irregular in the preterit, and I could not get a handle on them until I spotted that they were all in pairs and trios.

Anadar, estar and tener > anduve, estuve and tuve
Conducir, decir and traer > conduje, dije and traje
caber & saber > cupe & supe
haber & poder > hube & pude
Poner and Querer > puse& quise
Hacer & venir > hice & vine
Dar and ver > di & vi

Patterns like that make learning a lot easier.

Re: Struggling to settle
 

There's another point to bear in mind. I have a hypothesis that language works on fuzzy logic and best guess techniques.

Your brain considers what you have heard & said thus far in a conversation, then makes an intelligent guess as to the direction it will take. It then primes you with what to expect, based on the vocabulary you have acquired so far. If the vocab store is pretty bare, it makes that process much harder.

This would explain why verbal jokes like puns and others that misdirect the brain are so effective.

Re: Struggling to settle
 

Bil is very perceptive and the only observation I can add is that there will always be people who will pretend to not understand you so dont bother with them.

When you make a true connection with someone they and you will make an extra effort at understanding.

I was amused by the though of Bill wrestling with an eclesiastical person then realised he was refering to the past tense ;)

Re: Struggling to settle
 

I don't live in Spain but just wanted to add that the idea of speaking to each other at home in Spanish is a great idea. I have family in Spain who have 4 kids. The older two are at school now and are fluent. So that the younger two can pick up the language before they start school (both parents are English speaking) the family only talk in Spanish to each other for 1-2 hours every evening. This has also helped the mum who doesn't get to go out and mix much with the locals as she is stuck at home with two very small ones, and they are in rural Spain so it make socialising a little difficult for her.

Oh and welcome to BE, I hope you enjoy using the site.

Re: Struggling to settle
 

Thank you.

Amusingly, I got caught in a misunderstanding between sinners and fishermen.

I was talking to a neighbour when a small white van drew up, and she announced it was the 'pecador'. I was standing there wondering what the hell a sinner was doing driving around in a van, when the penny dropped, and I realised I was the victim of the Andaluz dropped 's'.

I immediately started to wonder if they got any in the confessional saying 'yo, pescador'.

Re: Struggling to settle
 

I tried a bit too hard when I first came to Spain, having already been to lessons in the UK, and at some stage I got to overload and stopped bothering to try and be fluent. The miracle happened after I stopped trying to learn the language, I suddenly found that I could speak it and understand at a decent level. It seemed to happen overnight.

Re: Struggling to settle
 

You know, that's quite an astute observation.

Re: Struggling to settle
 

Manamama, I am sure that it will get easier. I agree with so much of what other posters have said. I have been very lucky to make some very good friends here and they have all been very patient with me. My closest friend and I see each other maybe 5 days out of 7 and yes, sometimes our conversations take a lot longer than they would if I were Spanish, but we get there! I do feel as if I can discuss anything with her, I don't have to hold back and I feel as close to her as I do to some of my friends in England. If you don't know the exact translation for something you want to say, don't be afraid to find other, sometimes longwinded, ways of saying it. And then when your friends/neighbours realise what you are trying to say, they'll help you learn the right vocab. Have you tried suggesting to a couple of the other Mums that you meet up for coffee? Although you are being very friendly with them when you see them, unless you make the first move, they might not realise that you'd like to take things to the next level. Also is there anything which you could join/take part in - for example here I have helped out at parties for the local children's home. I didn't understand everything which everyone else said but it really didn't matter.

Re: Struggling to settle
 

You have the best tutors there, your children ! (IMO)
I find learning from our grandchild is much easier as you can closely watch how they form the words & they will repeat themselves slowly as many times as you wish.

Brian

Re: Struggling to settle
 

Baby steps....
I had a good experience today while trying to return a dust extractor (vacuum cleaner to the uninitiated) to a ferreteria.
Now my Spanish is woeful but the shop assistants and I engaged in a discussion as to what the problem could be, eventually one of the assistants 'switched on' his English and spoke extremely well.

I was flattered that they put up with my mispronunciation and mime for so long. This is how I gauge my progress in Spanish, the amount of time I am tolerated.

The most important thing is to try, be wrong and be thick skinned enough to not be put off when a conversation is finished by a discourteous wave of the hand and a turned shoulder.

Poco a poco.

Ste.

Re: Struggling to settle
 

Yep.

I would say that the single best aid in the language is a small list of idiomatic expressions.

We were doing Jan's papers at the police office in Cadiz, we had got there early and the guy doing it was a tad diffident. I said to him that I was surprised to find the office so quiet as my neighbour had said ' get there early, the queues are horrendous'. He shrugged, and gestured at the empty office, and I said 'Si, aqui no hay quatro gatos' an idiom for 'there's no-one here'.

Immediately his face lit up, he laughed and from that moment he was a different person, and very friendly.

Re: Struggling to settle
 

Hi Manama,
I understand where you are coming from. It is very difficult at the beginning and sometimes the feeling of loneliness is overwhelming. In the UK we were used to confiding in our closest girlfriends, having the support of close family and, when all else failed , a little retail therapy usually did the trick. Suddenly it all changes and it is difficult to settle.
I would advocate against talking Spanish in the house. Your children have to keep up their English and you are the only ones who can do that for them. It will help them in the future and that is something positive you can do for them.
The problem is really yours and you have to find a solution. You will feel so good when you manage to master the language, and even better knowing that you have done it on your own.
I would suggest that for the summer months while the kids are off school just enjoy the holidays, chill, enjoy your children.
When they go back to school then you should start doing something.
I don't know exactly where you are in Asturias so I have just looked at general Asturias things. You will be able to decide.
1. http://www.escueladeturismo.es/
The Tourism College in Oviedo
Most places of learning have noticeboards. Put a notice up saying that you are looking for exchange classes - half an hour in English, half an hour in Spanish - no money changes hands. I am sure that there will be lots of people who want to learn English and would be happy with this arrangement

2. http://www.mundidiomas.com/
These guys do courses in English. Again, as in the college, you could put a card up on their noticeboard looking for exchange classes.

3. http://www.11811.es/actividades_prov...incia=Asturias
Cookery courses in Asturias that you could do. Cookery is a practical subject, you don't need too much of the language but the interaction with fellow pupils would be invaluable. If you don't like cookery then maybe photography or painting - anything practical that you could understand through seeing.

4. Voluntary teaching at your kids school. You could get in touch with the PTA (APA in Spanish) and offer your services for after school activities.

It is a long road but you can get there.
Best of luck and enjoy the journey.

Re: Struggling to settle
 

Manamama,

In my opinon this is by far the best advice.

I don`t want to bore to death the people who know me (sorry guys) but I`m going to.

My Dad is from Galicia. He never, ever spoke spanish to me at home (in England) when I was a child. We visited Spain every year for the whole month of August and I learnt spanish, over the years, by playing out with my friends, then going to discos as a teenager then by having boyfriends. :sneaky:

All the spanish that I know is self-taught by being amongst others. I can read it, speak and write it. But I am NOT grammatically fluent. I can hold long conversations but I will bet most of it is in `pidgeon spanish` - but hey, nobody cares.

I don`t go to Spain often now so I really do forget (cos I`m old now) but I use sign language when I get stuck and so do they.

Who cares if you don`t say it right? Nobody. As long as they get the gist of it. You will pick up more and more. It won`t happen overnight - my Dad has been in England now for 48 years and he still cocks up with the odd word and pronunciation - and he is a retired-teacher here!

Stick at it petal. When you feel p*ssed off then come on here! :thumbsup::thumbsup:

Re: Struggling to settle
 

:wub: Nice post Missus.

Re: Struggling to settle
 

I think that's a bit short even for someone with a Spanish spouse. EOI is six levels. Each level takes one year if you go two days a week, or half a year if you go four days a week. At the end of level four you should be a good intermediate speaker but definitely not fluent, but I guess this goes back to what each person's idea of fluency is.Sounds like a case of the blind leading the blind. Personally I would never consider talking to my kids in Spanish, I want them to learn English.

Re: Struggling to settle
 

Thanks :wub: (but don`t ruin my reputation as a bolshi-cow - and don`t tempt me to hijack either :rofl:) :wub:

Re: Struggling to settle
 

:lol: It even scares me in here nowadays :rofl:

Re: Struggling to settle
 

PMSL - as if anyone could ruin a reputation like yours :lol: :p :rofl:

Re: Struggling to settle
 

Hi everyone.

Thanks for all the replies - they have really helped and I feel more positive about learning the language.

I like the idea about having a language exchange buddy. There is a school in town that teaches English. I will call in when the kids are back at school and ask them. Failing that I will put up a notice on the school noticeboard. There are a few of the mums who are learning English so I might ask them too.

Just got to get myself organised and be more positive.

I will do what I can in the summer - I see my childrens' friend's mums almost every day at the park or when they play tennis or at parties, I will and ask them to help me a bit to learn. It doesn't help when you are on the shy side too but I will try and be brave.

So thanks everyone. So glad I joined this forum.

Re: Struggling to settle
 

There's also a system whereby you arrange with a Spaniard who wants to learn English. You go to a bar or wherever, for an hour say, and half the time you converse in the one language, half the other.

Each of you helps the other.

It can also be a lot of fun, and a way to make friends too.

Intercambio I think I've heard it called.

Re: Struggling to settle
 

That's it - I thought there was a name for it. I just called it language exchange buddy (I heard it a while ago from my husband).

Re: Struggling to settle
 

If you go to the local libraries in this area they usually have a notice board up with local ads on it many including intercambio or language courses, have a look in yours. ;-)

Re: Struggling to settle
 

Hi,
Yes most of the best ideas have been mentioned. The intercambio is a good idea. There are plenty of people who want to learn English. I used to run one down here and its a great way to make friends.
Don´t be afraid to put up a few flyers either. Maybe get a little group going.

Re: Struggling to settle
 

Hi,

Im moving to Oviedo in September for a year. I will be studying at Oviedo University. My worry is that I am a single mother with two children 12 and 7years, from the West Midlands, and here in the UK I have great support from family and friends. I worry that I'll miss there support and friendship and that I'm really making a huge mistake.

I only have to study a year in Oviedo before completing my degree in Spanish back in Coventry, So its not a long time but your thread on not being able to settle in and making friends really confirmed what I have been thinking.

I chose Oviedo instead of Malaga or Valencia because of the lack of British expats there, and me really wanting to improve my spanish. But Im worried that in doing this, my quality of life while I'm there will be compromised. I'm also worried about the children settling in. My 12 year old son is feeling very anxious about the move, my daughter not really understanding the enormotity of it.

Do you have any tips of your whole move. Finding a house, schools, car, flights, how did you transport your belongings? etc

Any help would be greatly appreciated. I think you have been brave and couragous to do what you have done so far, so be proud of where you have got to and hopefully these doubts that you have about your ability to speak spanish will soon fade. I just hope that I make it as far as you!:thumbsup:

Re: Struggling to settle
 

You should of started your own thread on this really as it will get lost here, perhaps a kind mod will move it for you, ;-)

Re: Struggling to settle
 

This exact concept has been kicking around in my head for years. In my experience it produces the most gains when learning a language. I have never been able to express the concept eloquently, nicely done bil.

This used to happen to me constantly when learning Spanish and Catalan; when hearing a conversation (after 4-5 months) I could often predict the structures and words that were about to be said. I would then use a word or phrase I didn't really understand the meaning of, but intuitively I knew it 'fitted' in the context. It felt like I was bluffing my way through Spanish or Catalan.

Most of the time it worked; there were a few uncomfortable silences when it didn't though :rofl:

Thinking back, this started happening more often to me after I had started reading in Spanish. As bil says, I guess it's expanding one's vocabulary and recognizing patterns that helps a lot.