This statement worries me...
Jan 4th 2012 | 12:09 am
#16
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 7,749
Re: This statement worries me...
http://www.abc.es/elecciones/20n-201...111220721.html
Jan 4th 2012 | 12:55 am
#17
BE Forum Addict
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 1,631
From: Aracena area Huelva Spain
Re: This statement worries me...
Well, the "welfare state" has grown out of control, and regardless of what anyone says, the reality on the ground is that the system continues to be full of loopholes enabling many to unfairly take advantage of the system. In fact, it seems to be a de-facto expectation that if you can somehow manage to get some sort of "entitlement" from the state by appearing helpless in some way, then "all the better". It seems to be a rather common expectation, and today, seems deeply rooted in European society. Well, reality strikes: Somebody has to pay for these "entitlements".
The welfare state has created a whole generation of people who believe they are "entitled" to "compensation", regardless of their contribution. The result? A clear tendency to contribute as little as possible, while maximising consumption of the "entitlements" offered by the welfare state.
In the end, it makes us less productive, more expensive, and less competitive in the global marketplace, and frankly, I believe it's a major contributor to the predicament we are in at the moment.
Worse yet, even if you agree and want to contribute more (work harder, be entreprenaurial, be innovative, etc.) such a notion would be considered naive and ridiculous, because we all know the welfare state is our enemy, and we shouldn't give "them" anything more than we are forced to. Besides, anything you contribute would be invisibly consumed in seconds without any "compensation", so the entire notion would be futile at best.
IMHO, the entire philosophy is ironic, and ultimately self-destructive to the state which we now depend on.
I believe the best way to change this self-destructive behaviour is to dramatically reduce the "entitlements", inducing people to forget what they are "entitled" to, and start being a bit less lethargic, more productive and less dependent on the welfare state for their well-being.
This article is perhaps only the first indication of how we may be forced into it.
The welfare state has created a whole generation of people who believe they are "entitled" to "compensation", regardless of their contribution. The result? A clear tendency to contribute as little as possible, while maximising consumption of the "entitlements" offered by the welfare state.
In the end, it makes us less productive, more expensive, and less competitive in the global marketplace, and frankly, I believe it's a major contributor to the predicament we are in at the moment.
Worse yet, even if you agree and want to contribute more (work harder, be entreprenaurial, be innovative, etc.) such a notion would be considered naive and ridiculous, because we all know the welfare state is our enemy, and we shouldn't give "them" anything more than we are forced to. Besides, anything you contribute would be invisibly consumed in seconds without any "compensation", so the entire notion would be futile at best.
IMHO, the entire philosophy is ironic, and ultimately self-destructive to the state which we now depend on.
I believe the best way to change this self-destructive behaviour is to dramatically reduce the "entitlements", inducing people to forget what they are "entitled" to, and start being a bit less lethargic, more productive and less dependent on the welfare state for their well-being.
This article is perhaps only the first indication of how we may be forced into it.
!As for government... Local government infighting (claims of corruption ) has put back my building licence application another week, meaning my electricity is very likely to be cut off. I believe there's more jealousy from the other side, than corruption going on but I don't know the full story. Grr. We're paying for this!
Jan 4th 2012 | 2:09 am
#18
Banned
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 19,367
From: Mallorca
Re: This statement worries me...
There are very little in the way of benefits in Spain for the unemployed so that isn't as much of a factor in Spain, but there is still top heavy government. And the tax to pay for it falling most heavily on the honest which makes people work in the black economy. So, The main similarity is top heavy government. This just cannot work forever even though it's providing employment, It creates no wealth and the plughole effect is getting faster and faster. The government says the hike in IVA IBI and direct taxes is only temporary. Since when where tax rises ever temporary? Don't make me !
As for government... Local government infighting (claims of corruption ) has put back my building licence application another week, meaning my electricity is very likely to be cut off. I believe there's more jealousy from the other side, than corruption going on but I don't know the full story. Grr. We're paying for this!
!As for government... Local government infighting (claims of corruption ) has put back my building licence application another week, meaning my electricity is very likely to be cut off. I believe there's more jealousy from the other side, than corruption going on but I don't know the full story. Grr. We're paying for this!
I sincerely hope they manage to find some rational solution before you end up with the burden. We have same sort of bollocks here, too.
Just another example of that which is somewhat unique to Spain.. Rather than sort it out, simply call each other a "poopie" until one of them gives up.. while all those in the general vicinity end up being forced to tolerate the argument and foot the bill for all that falls into the abyss in the process.
Corruption? No, you think?
Say what you will about the Germans, but the courts there wouldn't tolerate this crap. If you don't sort it out, they will, and that would be the end of it.
EDIT: Raising taxes in a depressed economy has historically had no effect other than further depress the economy. But it will enable them to "cut less" from the already overinflated government, and provide evidence to Brussels that Spain is making an "honest effort" to curb the deficit. Unfortunately, further recession will be the most likely result.
But don't worry. The ECB will soon be forced to print money and bail us out...
Last edited by amideislas; Jan 4th 2012 at 4:01 am.
Jan 4th 2012 | 5:48 am
#19
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,590
Re: This statement worries me...
The recent North London riots as an example showed that one thing can lead to another. A small protest got out of hand and literally ran riot. A few disenchanted unemployed here being told that their benefits will be cut again or some other austerity measure could be just the spark.
Riots on the street
Jan 4th 2012 | 6:23 am
#20
Thread Starter
BE Enthusiast
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 581
From: Seville
Re: This statement worries me...
Perhaps...and the Spanish equivalent of the Tories is...? 
Jan 4th 2012 | 11:57 am
#21
BE Enthusiast
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 490
From: Naranja Groves looking at the mountain
Re: This statement worries me...
much tooo heavy for me!!!!!!!
Jan 5th 2012 | 12:55 pm
#23
BE Forum Addict
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 1,646
From: Near Alora....but not too near. :)
Re: This statement worries me...
I doubt we are going to see any riots in Spain
Spaniards love an organised protest. There have been several events over the past 20 years that have brought millions of people to the streets; ETA bombings, the Madrid bombings, the Iraq war, but these were protests against violence
The 15M indignados protests were incredibly well organised and peaceful nevermind what the rightwing press and politicians were trying to portray
Many people in Spain are suffering but they will muddle on. It was only the 1980s when many families were struggling just like they are now, it isnt unknown and there isnt the sense of entitlement that British people have.
Spaniards love an organised protest. There have been several events over the past 20 years that have brought millions of people to the streets; ETA bombings, the Madrid bombings, the Iraq war, but these were protests against violence
The 15M indignados protests were incredibly well organised and peaceful nevermind what the rightwing press and politicians were trying to portray
Many people in Spain are suffering but they will muddle on. It was only the 1980s when many families were struggling just like they are now, it isnt unknown and there isnt the sense of entitlement that British people have.
Jan 5th 2012 | 1:30 pm
#24
Needs the SUN
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 45
From: Boston, MA..until my ship comes in
Re: This statement worries me...
I am grateful I for this thread. I find the comments very concerning. I am worried we may have missed the boat, so to speak. We have been planning a move to Spain since 2009. We planned to go in June of 2013.
We have the contractors lined up to spruce up the house prior to it going up for sale.
My husband is employeed, and his company will relocate him to a place where they have a presence. He is an senior software designer. So we would have a steady income.
Curious, on how bad and depressing Spain is right now? The U.S. in no picnic right now. I have lived here all my life and have never seen it as bad as it is now. And that includes the years when George W. Bush was president...
Any thoughts or comments? If you could move to Spain (Valencia) or Tenerife in the year to come would you? If not where would you live?
We have the contractors lined up to spruce up the house prior to it going up for sale.
My husband is employeed, and his company will relocate him to a place where they have a presence. He is an senior software designer. So we would have a steady income.
Curious, on how bad and depressing Spain is right now? The U.S. in no picnic right now. I have lived here all my life and have never seen it as bad as it is now. And that includes the years when George W. Bush was president...
Any thoughts or comments? If you could move to Spain (Valencia) or Tenerife in the year to come would you? If not where would you live?
Jan 5th 2012 | 8:56 pm
#25
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 12,053
From: In the middle of 10million Olive Trees
Re: This statement worries me...
I am grateful I for this thread. I find the comments very concerning. I am worried we may have missed the boat, so to speak. We have been planning a move to Spain since 2009. We planned to go in June of 2013.
We have the contractors lined up to spruce up the house prior to it going up for sale.
My husband is employeed, and his company will relocate him to a place where they have a presence. He is an senior software designer. So we would have a steady income.
Curious, on how bad and depressing Spain is right now? The U.S. in no picnic right now. I have lived here all my life and have never seen it as bad as it is now. And that includes the years when George W. Bush was president...
Any thoughts or comments? If you could move to Spain (Valencia) or Tenerife in the year to come would you? If not where would you live?
We have the contractors lined up to spruce up the house prior to it going up for sale.
My husband is employeed, and his company will relocate him to a place where they have a presence. He is an senior software designer. So we would have a steady income.
Curious, on how bad and depressing Spain is right now? The U.S. in no picnic right now. I have lived here all my life and have never seen it as bad as it is now. And that includes the years when George W. Bush was president...
Any thoughts or comments? If you could move to Spain (Valencia) or Tenerife in the year to come would you? If not where would you live?
I would suggest that if you want the move then you do it. Otherwise in years to come it will become another point of recrimination and "if only" driving a wedge between you and partner as you get older.
Things have been worse - its still in living memory that Spain had a full shooting Civil War, France and Germany were at war but look how friendly they are now, Italy was at war, UK was at war, as were Benelux countries and Russia.
Things can be difficult, awkward or a breeze dependent on an individual's circumstances.
If you want the different lifestyle, with the added advantage of a good well paid job then go for it. Spain isnt the wild west of old.
And if it goes wrong for whatever reason then you can say you gave it your best and hold your head up high..
look forward to seeing you on the beach or up a mountain in the near future, in fact why not bring it forward to 2012
rgds
Dom
Jan 6th 2012 | 1:34 am
#26
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 6,912
From: Puente Esuri
Re: This statement worries me...
I am grateful I for this thread. I find the comments very concerning. I am worried we may have missed the boat, so to speak. We have been planning a move to Spain since 2009. We planned to go in June of 2013.
We have the contractors lined up to spruce up the house prior to it going up for sale.
My husband is employeed, and his company will relocate him to a place where they have a presence. He is an senior software designer. So we would have a steady income.
Curious, on how bad and depressing Spain is right now? The U.S. in no picnic right now. I have lived here all my life and have never seen it as bad as it is now. And that includes the years when George W. Bush was president...
Any thoughts or comments? If you could move to Spain (Valencia) or Tenerife in the year to come would you? If not where would you live?
We have the contractors lined up to spruce up the house prior to it going up for sale.
My husband is employeed, and his company will relocate him to a place where they have a presence. He is an senior software designer. So we would have a steady income.
Curious, on how bad and depressing Spain is right now? The U.S. in no picnic right now. I have lived here all my life and have never seen it as bad as it is now. And that includes the years when George W. Bush was president...
Any thoughts or comments? If you could move to Spain (Valencia) or Tenerife in the year to come would you? If not where would you live?
Jan 6th 2012 | 3:02 am
#27
On the road again.
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 17,507
From: On Top of the World
Re: This statement worries me...
Curious, on how bad and depressing Spain is right now? The U.S. in no picnic right now. I have lived here all my life and have never seen it as bad as it is now. And that includes the years when George W. Bush was president...
Any thoughts or comments? If you could move to Spain (Valencia) or Tenerife in the year to come would you? If not where would you live?
If a comfortable Winter is a major factor with no heating costs or winter clothes to worry about then S.Tenerife is ideal.
I am in the Valencian region now and find the locals here to be still as friendly and helpful as ever. Hopefully it will remain that way no matter what.
Both TF and Val. can offer you an excellent choice of beach or country the choice is yours.
I have no info to hand on property prices or rental, but would imagine that TF will be a little more expensive in that respect due to its superior Winter climate.
