I tend to agree with most of what Stevie posts on here and certainly agree ref haggle over rent.
When opening our business, as advised by the bank manager "haggle hard on that one" because there are basically many landlords fighting over tennants.
We ended up paying literally half what the previous tennant was paying and what the landlord was originally asking. We also signed a 10 yr contract over the terms ensuring we don´t get stitched up a couple of years later!

On a sour note, I´ve just been reading the following...
http://www.thelocal.es/20140306/reco...-close-in-2013

On a sweeter note, and for what it´s worth, I do believe recessions simply sort the wheat from the chaff

Been looking at some places in Fuengirola. Does anyone have experience there?

I think that because we both have lots of experience and are going into this with both eyes open we can survive the current climate (fingers crossed)

I have seen thousands come and go over the years on the CDS. One season is about average. Most of them live from hand to mouth! In most places there is a Brit bar every few metres you will work long hours ok. Usually staying open for a couple of people whilst earning a few euro profit.

Do an extensive search on here, there has been a few who didn't take advice and finished broke. Just come out and have an extended holiday...your money will last longer

Fuengirola is possibly the worst nearly a Brit bar for every Brit family.

we're not gonna rush into anything by any means. Its gonna be a while before we commit to anything.

Thanks for your advice about Fuengirola. Possibly will be one place we cross off the list.

Is there anywhere you would recommend?

Have a look at Ayamonte Costa Esuri desperately needs more and varied facilities and there is definitive good news that the Urbanisation is to receive an input of €5+ million to finish and upgrade the infrastructure. In addition there is an indication that the private sector in the form of an overseas development group could move in to complete incomplete commercial opportunities which could see an increase in builders, buyers and holiday makers.

If you are really serious there is one opportunity for a bar from scratch with a view to die for over the back nine with Weston Europe's longest river in the middle distance and the hills of Portugal as a background. A mixed and varied resident community from maybe eight or nine countries with a solid Spanish majority.

Re Fuengirola. By chance we were there last year and I was so surprised to see an 'estate agent' selling ONLY bars! I couldn't believe that there were so many bars for sale, and most in Fuengirola. I am not sure if this means there is an opportunity (as there are so many to satisfy a need... and also you could get a good deal) or actually a sign of tales of woe from people dreaming of running a bar and failing. I was so surprised I took a photo of it, never seen anything like it! Please check out the photo, it will at least give you some good contact numbers. I hope it helps in your thought process either +ve or -ve. Gut feel tells me that this is not +ve. But I'm no expert on running bars/restos!

I have (however) a wealth of experience in using them

I'd like to second what John says about Costa Esuri, but have to admit I am totally biased to the area as a property owner and owner of 'rose tinted glasses' So must state that interest up front. We've seen our share of problems and woes. The development was one of the biggest in Spain, on (then) 2 golf courses, right on the border of Portugal where we spend around 70% of our time. Close to some amazing beaches and surrounded by golf and natural parks. Then the crisis hit! You will find all sorts of info on the Ayamonte Club a sub-forum dedicated to the area, in the Spain section (more below). and John who is a mine of information! Also on Google

We have at least 50% occupancy here, maybe more now as mainly Spanish buy into the development at fantastic prices. There is also a thriving British community of many helpful and great people! The place is crying out for investment and more social opportunities. For a long time there was only the Golf Club (GC) for the entire area (bar/resto). Then a small shop opened, where people sit on the terrace and have drinks. We call it 'the local'.

As a result the GC could ask, and get, much higher prices for eg drinks vs local bars in Spain and Portugal. And people are willing to pay them. Then a new (2nd) bar/resto opened, and in the high season was packed out. Selling mainly English food with entertainment. Entertainment nights were busy even in the lower season. Similar prices (revenue). A series of problems led to the business closing, to the sadness of MANY residents. Its now being re-incarnated as a Spanish themed bar resto, and excitement is high for its opening.

Co-incidentally, I posted about this all earlier, on this thread here, which will give just a feel for both risks and opportunities. Here: http://britishexpats.com/forum/showp...&postcount=386

Again more information for you to consider... and there's a LOT to consider before you commit. If you are interested in the area you will find helpful people on the Ayamonte club http://britishexpats.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=138

BUT one word (errrr paragraph) of warning! It takes TIME to get through the admin nightmares here, AND make sure you have dotted all the i's and crossed the t's. Otherwise your money would disappear overnight.

What we have lacked on the development IMHO is EXPERIENCED HOSPITALITY people who really understand running bars/restos and understand the needs of the customers. Even if it is a British themed place. Although there is space for an enterprise that can find a way mix the 2 major groups, Spanish and Brits. We have had e.g Flamenco events and they had a great mix of friendly people. With a lack of social infrastructure here, that Flamenco even happened in a corridor of a broken commercial centre not at all suited for purpose, yet was brimming with people ... looking for a good time.... and spending money! There is a real need for this here I believe.....

Im my opinion this lack of experience and knowledge has led to an opportunity for the right person who can bring this in and potentially be really successful! I believe people are crying out for something special and the right business would create a LOT of customer loyalty and perhaps even become the social centre of this huge development... I hope that will be either the Golf Club or the new bar/resto (Vista Verde VV)... But there are problems with the GC which if rumour has it is facing big difficulties (sadly for us - but opportunity for you?) ...... But I think there are still significant other opportunities. Certainly worth looking at from someone that knows what he is talking about (as a business owner vs me , a customer!) and has the actual experience to decide on the level of risk/opportunity.

Lots of problems.... = maybe opportunities even. With new money coming in, population up, some great locations (one in particular where I met the agent selling at a cheap price) this may be the time, with possibly the emergence from a crisis (??) and a demand, for the 'bold' to see if 'fortune favours' them

Good luck,

Jon

That lengthy advice should carry a health warning

Wouldn't touch those agents selling bars either.

Thank you Jon for your lengthy and very informative post.

It certainly is food for thought. Out of curiosity why did the previous bar/resto close? Was it lack of experience/knowledge?

Would you happen to know where to get in touch with about possibly opening a new bar/resto there? Ive been googling but can only come up with accommodation.

Sounds like possibly the kind of opportunity weve been looking for.

Thank you again for all your help.

Not really Jag and Pam had lots of commercial experience in UK before they came out here in 2005/6. It was more the duplicity of the Spanish bureaucracy which presented ever more difficult hurdles to climb. The feeling always was that if they had been Spanish they would have been cut more slack which was sort of confirmed when the shop which was stopped for exactly the same offence (live music) was allowed to carry on all it's other activities without a disabled loo which was the ultimate downfall of the Bistro.

The old adage "if you want to make a million in Spain start with two" comes very much to mind. You must if you intend to go ahead get the very best advice and a Gestoria who is well connected at the town hall so that there are no trip wires placed in your path.

The company selling the excellent bar/resto space above the shop, (that John also mentioned) is

Francisci Perez (aka PACO)
Homes and Fincas - www.homesandfincas.com

I have no connection to the company, and talked to him when he was scoping the place out and he gave me his card.

The town hall is IMHO not business friendly even in a crisis. But take full legal advice to ensure that you have all the licenses . eg for music, disabled access, food serving, kitchen placement etc.

These are some of the things that caused a problem with Jags.... the new owners I think are covering all the bases.

Here is a link, but things are so much better now!

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...al-battle.html

http://www.spanishpropertyinsight.co...-developments/

http://www.homesandfincas.com/costa-...-ayamonte.html

Good luck

Jon

Interesting point you raise ref disabled loo!
We were told we might have to have newly constructed walls removed as the access to the loo had a turning circle of something like 10cm too small.
Simple, we don´t offer toilet facilities (officially) so we were allowed to open without paying for a complete refit of the refit!
Next door there is a wine bar (Spanish owned) that do offer toilet facilities...you guessed it, access to their loo is a fraction of the size of ours! Plus they don´t have any disabled facility in the actual bathroom. Something we were told was "none negotiable"
Interesting that half the town hall people (Mayor included) are regulars at the wine bar!