"Squatters" in CE
 

Hi

I've been hearing that this is happening increasingly in CE.

With all the empty properties and travel bans for non full time residents, there are loads of empty homes of course. Add financial problems with the lockdown and salaries affected, etc etc, this could become a growing problem
Has anyone seen this, please?

Also does anyone know about the legal protection either owners or" squatters" have in Spain, please?

Ive used " " as I dont know the politically correct terminology.

Thanks

Jon

Re: "Squatters" in CE
 

Touch wood Jon I've always felt that Marina Esuri was quite a safe lock up and leave. Mainly because of the number of full time Spanish residents living there and quite a number of Guardia Civil officers living there as well. Most Portal entrances of six apartments usually have at least one full time resident and some portals are gated as well giving an extra level of security. In my opinion it would be too obvious if squatters broke in. That said about 4 years ago an elderly couple arrived at their flat on ME to find the locks changed and someone living there very discretely claiming he was renting it. Apparently a bent locksmith had been sent around to gain entry looking all above board and changed the lock barrels. Not sure what happened to the illusive lettings agent. Personally, I would have thought a much easier target would be the "Sun & Sea" apartments although not that many actually owned and furnished. Unless a squatter was living like a hermit I think our crew of consierge /gardeners would notice someone who should not be there. I think the risks of being seen are too high compared to other communities, hence I think we are as safe as can be. LET'S HOPE SO. I might add that the front doors and mechanisms to ME apartments are quite good, BUT the lock barrels are NOT. Easy to break in with a jump key. You need to replace the barrel with a high security type to make life difficult. ( details by PM)
P.s. Nowadays, energy and water consumption would also show up on our online accounts fairly quickly giving the game away.

Roll on summer...........Keith

Re: "Squatters" in CE
 

You might want to read this post? > Tenant Eviction Nightmare -Part 2 - British Expats

Re: "Squatters" in CE
 

https://www.diariodehuelva.es/2017/0...-vendia-droga/

From 2017 but can always happen anywhere.

Re: "Squatters" in CE
 

Hi Missile. I stopped reading that thread months ago. It's too painful to comprehend and I just don't want to know anymore. The elderly couple on ME called the Guardia civil and they turfed him out despite the squatter saying he was legally renting. Apparently he was a chef somewhere in town. Strange if he was renting that he never used the outside terrace, or was ever seen. Blinds all shut etc. The funny thing is he had helped himself to the owners clothes and was actually wearing them when arrested. No one was prosecuted as far as I can recall.

Re: "Squatters" in CE
 

Just received an email from Lomas admin to advise that squatters were trying to access a house (bank owned) however some lovely neighbours intervened and they were stopped. It is a worry for all of us who are desperate to get to our homes there and check all is ok. Fortunately, we have a friend who calls in and keeps an eye on the place but, obviously, unoccupied properties are going to be a magnet for homeless people.

Re: "Squatters" in CE
 

Thanks Missile + Moses for the link. This is exactly why I started the thread.

Also Keith for the feedback that ME is probably quite safe.

However, the problems start when they get in ........ and decide to stay!. We've had burglaries in ME before, for example, even in the same block as where the Guardia Civil were living.

Its why I was curious about the rights of both the owners and "squatters" in the OP.

There may be problems with taking any action to 'turf them out' as they may have rights and the slightest action (physical or any other non-legal) could be prosecuted.

From what I've seen + heard, its a nightmare situation for the owners.

​​​​​​Finally, it seems that this is not a rumour on CE, and once it starts, it could continue...

Lets hope not. But changing the lock to a new high security barrel is a good idea

What a drag!

Jon

Re: "Squatters" in CE
 

There were 2 cases this week where they were stopped or had only just gained entry by neighbours getting the police involved quickly. Guadia Civil have been patrolling most days . There seems to be a lot of old Portuguese cars around. I have been told that there is a law in Spain that during Covid times that protects the squatters from eviction after 24 hours.

Re: "Squatters" in CE
 

That is very worrying, so after 24 hours they have free rein to live there ? Terrible!

Re: "Squatters" in CE
 

Anyone know of a good, effective and highly visible alarm system, preferably monitored?

Re: "Squatters" in CE
 

The only thing I know is that there is a company EU wide called Verisure. Jags resto-bar had alarms with them.

Theres all kinds of other off-the-shelf systems out there, but I don't know much about them. My friend set up a video surveillance system for his elderly parent who was ill and would leave the house at any time. With alerts etc. He could check in at any time on his phone, look at the video, even chat.... Of course this is diametrically opposite to someone breaking IN but I suppose the tech works both ways.
With us away, its difficult to see how we can arrange installation though... maybe its possible to arrange with a keyholder ... But... Tricky
Jon

Re: "Squatters" in CE
 

https://moneysaverspain.com/alarm-systems-spain/

Securitas Direct have a good rep but of course cost if you want full coverage (but you get peace of mind)

Re: "Squatters" in CE
 

To be honest , I wouldn't bother with alarms or security doors to prevent squatters unless you are willing to pay many thousands of euros. Until the Spanish government do something to protect homeowners, 'legal' squatting will become the norm. I think the far leftist parties are even blackmailing the government to make squatting legal.

I've heard that even if you report it to the Guardia Civil , most the of the time they won't investigate and advise you to go through the wonderfully efficient squatter biased corrupt judicial system. The squatters will then drag it out through the courts for 1-2 years by raising frequent appeals before you ultimately evict them (costing you 1-2k for solicitor plus another 1.7k for procurador costs + locksmith+ gas/water/electricity unpaid bills + they will trash your flat before they leave).

Okupas are very well organised , know how to get free legal aid , sack their lawyers frequently to delay court proceedings (ie. our 'tenant' sacked his lawyer 5 times and slowed court proceedings for 2 weeks for every sacking) and know they won't have to pay a penny. The money they might owe for free legal aid (if they lose their court case against eviction) gets annulled after 3 years if they prove their income is below some threshold. Also, you won't get paid for your court costs because they will have emptied their bank accounts and made sure any of their assets are passed to their friends and relatives (or stashed away somewhere).

As soon as they squat in a premises they usually create an account like a broadband line under their name and then use that bill to formerly register themselves as a legal resident in your property via the local town-hall . Once they do that you will have no other option but to go through the court system to evict them.

My family have decided we will not pay one more penny to legally evict any future squatters from our apartment .

The next time blood will be spilled !!!!

Re: "Squatters" in CE
 

DOWNANDOUT why would lawyers represent these people if the chances of being paid are minimal?

Your last comment is the best advice

Re: "Squatters" in CE
 

These stories are horrifying, and must be a terrible worry especially at these times when owners of holiday properties here cant travel to them, leaving them unoccupied and vulnerable to such 'occupations'. I have read up a little on this, and the Spanish Law is horrendous and archaic with regard to 'squatter's rights'. It is beyond comprehension that people can work hard all their lives and save their money to have a treat such as a holiday apartment or villa in this lovely part of the world, only for some scumbag to just move in and 'take it' more or less, without any cost to themselves. I know it's only fairly recently [in the grand scale of things] that the UK changed the laws. How can it be that what is really a burglar and thief, or family of them, can have 'rights', and can carry on using what they have essentially 'stolen' from another person, to the detriment and cost of the actual owner?

I have read that it's actually within 48 hours that you must get the police/guardia civil to attend the property in the case of intruders. But 24 or 48 hours makes no difference if they don't even bother once reported. There are some articles that have stated that over in the more tourist popular areas of the east of Spain, the local 'mafia' will put squatters into a property then blackmail the real owners for large sums of money to get them out! I also read that these 'squatters' are quite 'professional' in how they go about their crimes, and will watch a property for a day or so, and even set up utility accounts for that property, in their names before they even attempt to 'move in' to it. Also, they are so expert at it, that in under two hours they can gain access and move their belongings in and look like they've been there for weeks or months, should the guardia civil come calling.

I understand that squatters have actually taken 'residence' in a large detached villa in the north east of esuri, and others were luckily prevented from doing the same in the villa opposite it. I don't doubt that these 'squatters' communicate with each other and work together as 'teams'. What must the owners be going through with all this must be terrible, and all because the government allows it. With the laws as they are, and the court system protecting these criminals it will only be a matter of time until people go for the easier option and 'sort it themselves' and then that opens another 'can of worms'! But who could blame them when these criminals have more rights than the owners of the property, and the courts and laws actually protect the criminals!?

The Spanish government really needs to look at this and quickly, as they do rely on tourism for a substantial part of their revenue, and such ridiculous outdated laws giving criminals 'rights' is not going to encourage tourism or investment in local properties, and they really need that, especially after the recent colossal lack of tourist trade.

I asked a local lawyer about this, and was told 'it is up to the owners to sort out'. Unbelievable!

Re: "Squatters" in CE
 

Surely prevention is better than cure. If you put sufficient visible deterrent and maybe frequent visits by a keyholder or management company, then potential squatters will try an easier target.?
I looked up Securitas Direct and their cost for full coverage and an average 15 minutes response to an alarm is around €29 pm (plus set up costs).. A DIY kit from AKI or Leroy Merlin will set you back around €1000 euros and will send an alarm to your smart phone - no ongoing charges of course.. This allows you to call the police or guardia within the 24-48 hour timescale - or call your keyholder/management company to check it out.
There was also a story I read on another forum about someone who was invaded by squatters who demanded a ransom of €5k euros to leave. I believe he finally negotiated that down to €3k ish. So the 'Spanish' way of dealing with it not through the courts can sometimes be more successful !

Re: "Squatters" in CE
 

Thanks DOWNANDOUT (I hope your forum name isn't as a result of your experiences)... and neil77. You both know this problem well.

Wow this is sobering and worrying. Especially if there is organised crime or just organised strategy here. It doesn't take a criminal mastermind to drive around and note the numerous empty properties in CE (right on the border) and after a second or subsequent visits choose their targets. Foreign based non-residents would also find it more difficult to manage from afar. Making it easier for this illegal (but legally protected) activity.

Especially in these times, where pandemic problems have created so many non-health problems as well.

Whilst the odds may be small of our homes being targeted - once word spreads, those odds increase. These days 'word' spreads so easily, with social media, mail, IT etc. As we see with illegal raves, protests (often violent where the 'renta-mob yobbos' get their kicks, regardless of the reason) ... Etc. Also this creates an increasing level of criminality in the area.

I think taking a non-legal physical approach is a bag of worms too. Also asking our wonderful town hall to do anything is a drag, as we've found from experience. Ask them increase police surveillance .. probably wont happen soon .. if at all!!

Also with the awful experience we had on buying, I wouldn't know where to even start with a good (or even reasonable) lawyer! neil77's last point really is "unbelievable"!!

Its disturbing for me, that there seems little to do but .... :fingerscrossed::fingerscrossed: And that this isn't the first thread on the forum about this!!. Gosh the more you think about it the worse it gets!

After over a years lockdown, its our No1 priority to return, and we will within days.... But it would be crushing to be locked out of our own home.

Jon. :fingerscrossed::fingerscrossed:

PS To move to solutions, from stating the problems..... On ME (at least) we used to have a security guard in a specially built guardhouse (still there) ... Id be more than happy to pay my bit extra for that - rather than a burglar alarm. It will also help reduce the non residents coming in and using the facilities in the summer and eg blocking the main gates open, or waiting outside for someone to come ... And following them in.

It could also increase property values.

However the guard needs to do hi/her job. When we had one at the beginning. He had to do his rounds at night and log in at boxes around ME as proof. I heard someone unscrewed these boxes, put them in the guardhouse, and the guard sat there just logging in!!

Re: "Squatters" in CE
 

I agree that a comprehensive intercommunity security system should be investigated = remote monitoring as well as (possibly) a physical guard. Security cameras at strategic points. As I said above Securitas Direct do offer these kind of services (and there are other large providers) We should ask the intercommuntity president to get some quotes and then work out how much it would caost each owner when spread across them all - I pretty sure it wouldn't amount to very much.

Re: "Squatters" in CE
 

Some good info here: https://www.barcelona-metropolitan.c...in-your-house/

Re: "Squatters" in CE
 

Once again :goodpost:thanks.

However, this is clearly a complex and upsetting process. Something that will probably take a fair amount of time to resolve. Who knows what you will eventually return to your home when they are gone

The fact that it is a second home, of course is less worrisome than a primary home... But for most people terribly upsetting. I fear this thinking of 'priority' will only delay the effort to resolve, especially as we are the foreigners as well (in this case).

As OP thanks to everyone, so far, for the valuable inputs. Always a positive on this forum. Looking forward to the discussion if/as it develops

Jon

Re: "Squatters" in CE
 

Hi Jon,
Vista Hermosa put on a security guard at the entrance a few months ago, low and behold there are about 7/8 cars started parking round the back and they are entering through a hole cut in the fence.
Just off to Decathlon to buy a baseball bat!

Re: "Squatters" in CE
 

Of course it's an upsetting process and probably not easy. A lot will depend what type of property we are talking about and if there are direct neighbours. One option might be to also destroy the electricity/water supply and that is probably the quickest (although not cheapest). If the squatters have no electricity and can't even charge their laptops and mobiles, they will likely move to the next place.

Re: "Squatters" in CE
 

Wow destroy... I would never thought of that!

But as I pay a standing charge, these arent my property, so I could be done for vandalism.

Perhaps an easier way is to send a registered letter to them, explaining that we have squatters and have cancelled the direct debit, and to disconnect the supply?

ThanksJon

Re: "Squatters" in CE
 

You could install a hidden isolation valve on the water supply and a breaker on the electricity.

Re: "Squatters" in CE
 

Good idea from missile. Just saying that if I was in that situation and didn't want a long process and an alternative to violence, cutting them off seems to be the only way. These squatters still want the comforts of home without paying rent, so with no running water and electricity they wouldn't see the benefit.

Re: "Squatters" in CE
 

They would probably take you to court and secure a successful prosecution for denying them their human rights

Re: "Squatters" in CE
 

First of all they would have to prove that the owner cut them off and would then have to admit that they aren't the owners with no rental contract;).
Don't forget that these squatters want the luxuries of modern day living and wouldn't last a day without their game console, otherwise they'd be living in caves.

Re: "Squatters" in CE
 

They do get paid by the State, even if they lose . In fact they queue up on some register to take on these cases as its a good source of income .

The more the abogados can drag out the case, the more they can charge the State for their services (although any extortionate claims gets checked by the Courts Secretary).

If per chance you lose your eviction case (which happened to us on some technicality - incorrect process- our rubbish abogados was to blame ) , you pay the 'tenant/squatters' solicitor and court costs . In our case the tenants lawyer charged us over 3k while the court charged us 1.8k . We currently owe them 4.8k and haven't paid them (we can't as we spent all our monies on our own legal costs) so they are about to put an embargo on our property , then threaten to sell it off in an auction.

Re: "Squatters" in CE
 

This sounds like a horror story one couldnt make up, and I do sympathise with you, totally. Terrible situation to be in, and at such times when you think the law and the judicial system is there to help you, and it does the complete opposite, it is totally unbelievable! Has your case concluded now, or is it still 'ongoing'?

Re: "Squatters" in CE
 

My thread was the 'Tenant Eviction Nightmare Part1 and Part2 ' which lasted nearly 3 years (that's how long it took to evict our tenant/squatters). Our tenant ended up subletting our flat to others on the cheap making a nice little sum. He was in cahoots with his mum (who was the President of the block ) and the 'Administrator' . We ended up paying 11k in solicitor/court costs but have refused to pay any outstanding electricity/water bills as it was contracted in the name of the tenant. Currently we haven't got a clue if the electricity/water has been cut off , whether the tenant and his squatter friends have broken back into our apartment , no idea who to contact with regards Comunidad payments (the President/Administrator seems to have done a 'runner').

I sent emails to the local police and Mayor stating that our lawyer is the only person who has the new keys to our flat (since the eviction) , therefore it is obvious that anyone who is found in our property has entered illegally. I asked the Mayor to contact her departments and refuse anyone who tries to register themselves as a legal resident in our property . The police haven't bothered to reply to my 4 emails , while the Mayor says they cannot refuse anyone to register as a legal resident in our property if they can produce a utility bill with their name and our property address .

Re: "Squatters" in CE
 

Our case is still not closed after 3 years but the tenant has been evicted . There is the small matter of us having to pay his 4.8k in solicitor/court costs for the 1st failed court case in trying to evict him (our previous lawyer used the incorrect eviction process). We do not have the monies to pay him (in fact we refuse to just out of principle) and have paid our new lawyer 1k to appeal against this debt because he owes us 11k in our successful 2nd court eviction case .

We therefore had to pay 1k to legally try and get our debt offset against his - you couldn't make this up!!!!

Re: "Squatters" in CE
 

If you fail to pay the utility bills and have the electricity/gas/water cut off for non-payment the squatters can prosecute you through the courts . The chances of them doing that might be slim because it can take years but note that the greedy abogados know they will win the case and offer them preferential rates. If they decide to go through the courts you could end up having to pay several thousands in euros.

The European Courts need to standardise squatter eviction laws across the EU and then make Spain comply with them. I'd rather not wait and just get rid of our property (which is now in a dismal state of disrepair and in a filthy condition) as soon as possible . Then say goodbye to Spain forever!!!

Re: "Squatters" in CE
 

The lawyers cannot be trusted and rather the 'squatters rights' laws remain because its a good source of income . Our lawyer was sympathising with our tenant saying he was just a poor man looking to live for free. Lol!

On one hand the lawyer says the tenant/squatter is using every trick in the book to avoid eviction , but it is obvious to me that its the lawyers using every trick in their 'crooked' laws to help them avoid eviction. Crazy!!!

Re: "Squatters" in CE
 

What I meant is that you cut off the electricity at the property. You will still pay the standing charge and without electricity the squatters will hardly last long. There are also many ways you could disconnect water, which would again make the property undesirable for the squatter. Of course this is easier when you have a house and your situation was very different, it is at least an option though.

Re: "Squatters" in CE
 

Im gobsmacked. I legally disconnect supply to my home, and can be prosecuted for not paying their utilities!! After they occupied my property illegally!! They use our home, our beds and furniture, all our appliances, clothes etc etc.... And they are protected. Whilst I have to also pay for it.

Crazy. !!!

Where is the logic in this!!!

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But why would the government condone and even protect these criminals with 'rights'? To do so is to the detriment of Spain, its going to put off tourists and investors who would buy more properties and inject lots of much needed cash into spain? It just goes to show how they cant think straight! What possible advantage could there be to allow squatters??
Unless of course, it saves the government millions in providing 'social housing' for the homeless or 'less fortunate'?

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There is a good recent article below which shows how corrupt Spain has become. It will all end in tears when foreign investment is driven elsewhere.

Squatters in Sitges leave after owner pays extortion money (spanishpropertyinsight.com)

Squatters in Spain, and how to avoid adverse possession (spanishpropertyinsight.com)

Note what the article says about utility bills and other issues.

"If you call the police too late, you will find yourself locked in a slow and costly judicial process to get the squatters out. During that time you have to continue paying the utility bills, because if you cut off the water and electricity, the squatters will report you to the police, and you risk being charged with intimidation and coercion."

"If and when you do finally get them evicted, who knows how much damage they will have done to your property. I have heard stories of owners finding their property gutted and trashed when they finally got it back. "

"It also shows that the squatter business model is lucrative for everyone but owners. The squatters do well, the anti-okupa companies do well, lawyers do well, locksmiths do well, alarm companies do well, and the police don’t have to get involved, which no doubt they are happy about. "

Re: "Squatters" in CE
 

Unfortunately I think the real reason is your last sentence. There is no other way then to try and make landlords pay for their dire social housing crisis.

Re: "Squatters" in CE
 

Wow!! I'm stunned. Thank you for this DOWNANDOUT

The title of the very next paragraph to your quote is
Second-home owners are a soft target for squatter mafias
Its also telling that these articles come from a Spanish property magazine.!

I'm thinking the water and electricity come into distribution boxes outside. I'm guessing to safely access or change the utility meters for each home there is a cut off outside?

If we cut off electricity, water etc at the distribution box, on leaving. Then if they break open the box - surely its not us liable? I'm sure our caretaker would open the box for us to do this.

Squatters cant expect to get extra "government supported 'coddling' " (using our money to pay for their usage) if they have to vandalise the outside in order to get services, that were not on when they broke in.

Adding to that point... :-

We always switch off all supplies on leaving, never leave food in the freezer. We have changed the mains water supply valve (the old one was rubbish), we could put a locked security box around it. I suppose we could install a new power switch too before the fusebox (as Missile suggested) but a sledgehammer or chiselling it out would give them access. This would be an act of vandalism in our home, and in any 'normal' country..... illegal.

Surely this would also bypass this stupid 'right' that the squatters have (to force us to also pay for their utilities). IE Vandalising the home to get to the 'switch' that controls incoming supplies that were not on when they broke in. ??

What a mess,

Jon

Re: "Squatters" in CE
 

I think one has to look at the type of squatter and If the squatter originally moved in legally (unauthorised occupant), then you can't just turn off all supplies. This can be the case when you have a rental agreement and they won't move out. If they break in and you never had a rental agreement with the group, this is not illegal if you switched off your electricity. If you had a really strong safe type security box and other ways to block them turning it on, it's still better than nothing. Having a camera like this installed https://reolink.com/off-grid-securit...-buying-guide/ and switching off supplies makes sense.