Spanish languages
 

Hi all

I'm new to the forum and am considering a possible move to Spain. It's early days yet, but I am trying to narrow down a few areas to go and have a look at.

My first concern is the language issue. I am currently having Spanish lessons in the UK, but am aware that the Spanish spoken in Spain can vary greatly between regions.

The first area I am considering is Andalucia, either costal or further inland, but I am primarily looking at the province of Malaga. I have been told that the Spanish spoken in this area carries a very heavy accent, which makes it difficult to understand, even for people from other parts of Spain! Is the accent in this area as unintelligible as I have been led to believe? How does this vary between urban/rural, costal/inland, east/west etc.? This might strike some as being an odd question to ask, but I would prefer to move somewhere where I can understand and be understood.

The second area I am considering is North Costa Blanca. What is used as the primary language in this area, Valencian or Castilian? Is the Spanish spoken in this area generally easier to understand than the Andalucian variety? How difficult is Valencian to learn? Would I really need to learn it to fully integrate, or is it possible to get by with just Spanish?

Sorry, so many questions! :eek:

Looking forward to hearing your experiences, and any advice is much appreciated.

Thanks.

Re: Spanish languages
 

Hi

I live & work in the North Costa Blanca

while the local language is indeed Valenciano, and a lot of the locals will speak to each other using it, they still speak Castellano to us foreigners, and in my town I think they speak pretty clearly, although when your ear is tuned in you can detect a Valenciano influence................

my kids are in school here & study in both, & I can read it pretty well, and understand quite a bit when it is spoken, I have never said anything beyond BonDia:o

I really don't think not speaking Valenciano has hindered me at all - in fact the local Spanish are usually impressed that I can speak Spanish!!:thumbsup:

Re: Spanish languages
 

My threepeneth, yes, Andalucia can be quite strong, in some areas, really strong, however, I wouldn't let that put you off if that is your first choice area. People get used to it. If you go to a valenciano speaking area, you'll still need castilian, you'll just be giving yourself another language to learn.

Re: Spanish languages
 

I live in a smaller town than Lynnxa and everyone speaks Valenciano all of the time. Although nearly they all do speak to us in Castellano there are many that cannot communicate well in it and we find that there are quite a lot who still persist in speaking in valenciano to us so we have to muddle through. The children are taught almost all of their lessons in Valenciano too.

I always say that I do not speak Valenciano at all but when my OH was in hospital I found that there were lots of things that I automatically said in Valenciano and could not in fact think of the correct Castellano. This probably occurred due to the length of time that we were dealing with the nurses who all spoke Valenciano to each other all of the time.

Rosemary

Re: Spanish languages
 

I live in Andalucia, in the Axarquia region east of Malaga. In the town where I live not many people speak English, and my neighbours have a very strong local accent which after 4 years I still find very difficult to understand. My Spanish is not fluent but pretty good, or so my teacher told me (studied to advanced level) and I never have any problems understanding people, or them understanding my Castellano, when I travel further north in Spain.

Re: Spanish languages
 

Andaluz can be difficult at times, very fluid and hard to pick the words out, but the area is warmer than the north, so I went for the south of Andalucia.

Interestingly, the hamlets can often speak a varety of andaluz that is unintelligible to me even after living next to them.

The more urban the area, the less you would need Catalan or Val. The more rural, I'd guess the more useful it might be,

Re: Spanish languages
 

Many years ago,when my Spanish wasn't that bad, I stopped in Archez and asked some old guy for directions. He went on for a minute or two, and I thanked him and went back to the car. My wife said, "What did he say?" "Not a ***** clue!" I think I missed 90% of it!;) Same once with a guy from Huelva, completely lost me. :)

Re: Spanish languages
 

I’m reasonably confident in Castellano and understand most Valenciano, but the latter is a dead language spoken by a tiny proportion of Spanish people in the north of the Valencian community. It is of no use in the rest of the Spanish speaking world.

The Andalucian accent is pronounced but Spanish speaking people elsewhere understand it, in the same way as a Geordie will be understood in New York.

I don’t have much knowledge of northern Spain, but understand the accents when I’ve heard them. Apart from the Basques, of course.

Re: Spanish languages
 

[QUOTE=HBG;9203761]I’m reasonably confident in Castellano and understand most Valenciano, but the latter is a dead language spoken by a tiny proportion of Spanish people in the north of the Valencian community. It is of no use in the rest of the Spanish speaking world.


52.5% of people in the Comunitat speak Valenciano according to the latest (2008) survey and it is spoken throughout the Comunitat and in northern Murcia. If we are at a street party here the locals will speak Castellan to us but a small number have to have it translated to Valencian because they cannot follow Castellan.
I find it quite amusing when I read that only a tiny proportion speak it in the north, we live south of Valencia and apart from Cullera, a resort town for the Spanish, all the other towns around the people communicate in Valencian.
I have just spent a long time in a large teaching hospital and guess what all the nurses, doctors, ancilliaries(over 3000 of them), communicated in Valencian.
So anyone out there considering moving to the Valencia region needs to take into account the language spoken.
:)
Graham

Re: Spanish languages
 

I am surprised; I expected the percentage of Valenciano speakers to be much higher.

While the language isn't high on my list of priorities, it is definitely something that I feel I should consider. Ultimately, the decision appears to be between moving to an area where the Spanish is difficult to understand versus moving to an area where half of the people converse primarily in a different language!

Are there parts of the Comunitat that are predominently Spanish speaking?

Thank you all for your input so far.

Re: Spanish languages
 

Valenciano is alive & kicking & at least half of all studies in the schools are in that language

even those in schools where castellano is the predominant language, roughly 40% of studies will be in valenciano

so I'd say it's probably growing, too

all road signs (at least in my area) are in both languages

however, a foreign adult doesn't need it, and I agree that it is of little use outside the immediate region, except in Cataluña, since catalán is almost the same

interestingly, many English children have told me that they find Valenciano easier to learn than Castellano

Re: Spanish languages
 

Hi

I live in the Cádiz region; there are people in Marquesado area of Chiclana that can't understand the accent of the Pago del Humo area of Chiclana!

So yes accents can be very regional; and very difficult to understand as one gets older and deafer. But when I travel to other regions of Spain, then they have always understood my Castellano Spanish. Indeed I have been complimented on it in Galicia where they speak Gellego (spelling?), and therefore Castellano is not their mother tongue.

However think about the TV; some stations are nationwide, and are understood. Therefore if you speak with the accent of the TV - you will be understood wherever you go.

Davexf

Re: Spanish languages
 

Agree, I have always maintained the same, if you speak correctly, they'll always understand you, alas it's not always true in reverse!;) They answer you because they understand you perfectly, but often you can struggle with their answer.;)
Gallego.
I find just about anywhere north of Andalucia is easier to understand, the middle and the north, so much easier. Mind you, they automatically slow down to speak with us, I can understand a Spanish friend without any problems, but hearing him on the phone to someone, it's more difficult to follow.

Re: Spanish languages
 

There are a few of my friends that I understand very clearly and they do not slow down for me and a few others that I barely understand no matter how slowly they speak. As they all grew up in this town I find it difficult to comprehend why they are so different unless it is the simple fact that some people actually speak more clearly than others. One of my neighbours who is an orange farmer only speaks to me in incomprehensible Valenciano but occasionally I even manage to get the guist of what he is saying. Well normally this only happens if he has used the same phrase to me before to ask how my OH is or to tell me what type of orange he is giving me and whether we can eat it or juice it.

I help a young lady with her English but I cannot understand a word she says in Valenciano and struggle quite a lot with her Castellano. Even though I slow down considerably for her she does not do the same for me which suprises me because she knows how difficult it is if I speak too fast for her.

My OH mentioned Cullera, there we find the Castellano that is spoken is very clear and I think that this is because they have Spanish people coming on holiday from a lot of different places but the majority I believe are from Madrid.

Rosemary

Re: Spanish languages
 

My advice would be to forget about regional languages, as it has been pointed out, adults dont need to learn unless they are going for "opositions" which I very much doubt.

It seems some worry about the differences in the languages even before they have mastered the one that is spoken all over Spain.

It is not that important. Nobody will expect incomers to learn the local language.

I disagree that there are people who cant speak "spanish" as apposed to their regional language, from my experiance the ones that claim that they can only speak gallego or galego, do so for political reasons, ie they belong to the " bloque". (a political party in galicia)

And usually they have no interest in what goes on in Spain or the rest of the world, they are very narrow minded and probably dont have anything interesting to say anyway.

The following link is what Spanish folk think of regional languages, and it is interesting to see their view.

Chill out, be cool, you will have enough to learn without Valenciano, catalan, galego and the rest of the "padding2 that people think they may need.

http://www.elotrolado.net/hilo_quot-...il_1333899_s10

Re: Spanish languages
 

I disagree that there are people who cant speak "spanish" as apposed to their regional language,

You can disagree but that does not make you correct, on our small calle alone there are two ladies that become totally confused by Castellano. The problem is that they live in our town, never leave the town and consequently never need Castellano.
I do agree with you that Castellano is the language to learn, but if I only travelled in a radius of say 40 Kms then Valenciano would be far more useful to me.
Graham

Re: Spanish languages
 

And you can disagree, but you speaking to 2 women does not make you right either......

I cant believe that anyone who has been through the Spanish eductaion system, cannot speak the national language as opposed to the local one.

If that is the case, the national curriculum is not being met, because it, if it is as you say, it limits the speaker to a radius of a few miles.........thus taking away any opportunities for advancment outside thier neighbourhood.

You are not taking a very wide view, if you are saying that I am wrong after giving the example of 2 women that live in your street.

I would like to know the ages of those women, if they are very old, than the probably nerver learned to read and write, but most people nowadays can,
after being through school.

If you are saying that this is the norm, you are way off the mark.

I am of the opinion that there are more people who speak both languages or only the national language, than only are able to speak their local one beit Valenciano, galego, or whatever.

Because if you are saying that the younger generation are not able to communicate with the rest of Spain, due to only learning local langs, then I am telling you that the vast majority of parents would not allow that to happen.

Re: Spanish languages
 

I agree with you, the problem was you stating that Valenciano is a dying language and that every Spaniard can speak Castellano. By using the example of two ladies on our small street who cannot speak Castellano logic dictates that within Valencia there must be many more who cannot.
If you read through what I have written you may discover that you are putting your own assumtions on what I in reality stated.
Graham

Re: Spanish languages
 

I never said that Valencia was a dying language, or Galego or any other, they are bieing taught in schools, and are part of the curriculum.

These are the only 2 post I have made on the subject, so if you can point out to where I said it is dying, please do so.

What I did say was for the British not to get bogged down by worrying about local languages, when they need to put all their effort into learning Spansih

So I think you are the one making assumptions. So I would also advise you to read through what I have written, above.

Re: Spanish languages
 

I agree with Graham that if you go to smaller villages inland in Valencia province, you will find older folk who don't use Castellano in their lives - I've been to such a place. I doubt the OP will have a problem on the coast or in larger towns, but if they settle in an inland village (especially one that is being de-populated and losing the younger folk) there may be difficulties. Yes, everyone will have had lessons in castellano at some point, and I'd find it difficult to believe there are any young people out there who don't understand Castellano, but it's different for the older population. I was taught French, Latin and German (1 year) at school - but I'm afraid to say I'd find it nearly impossible to follow a conversation in Latin or even French. The German I do know is something I've learnt in recent years.
The point JLFS makes about making sure you're sound in Castellano first is totally correct. It's not a five week process either, so better perhaps to concentrate on that for now.

Re: Spanish languages
 

Wow, thanks for that Stevie, that is all I was trying to say, I was looking at the bigger picture, Learn the most useful language, to me is seemed logical and did not need further explanation as to why it was more important, than worrying about what you may never even need.

It beats me why people who dont have a command of the big stuff, ie Spanish, would want to confuse the issue by introducing more and more complications because when you have a good command of Spanish, that is the time to expand and learn local languages, because at least you will have a good foundation to build on.

Re: Spanish languages
 

Sorry I used the wrong quote, and as I agreed earlier Castellano is the one to learn.
Graham

Re: Spanish languages
 

I think I have done that a few times in my posting career,:rofl:
and far from being dying langs. I know that they are being taught more than ever in schools, I cant remember if I was taught Galego in school or not, as I left school at 7 years old, but the kids today have media and other subjects in Galego.

Re: Spanish languages
 

I find it difficult to believe that anyone would solely speak valenciano. The teaching and speaking of it was prohibited under Franco so they must have had to learn castellano somewhere. Perhaps they are having you on.

Re: Spanish languages
 

or perhaps they simply stopped using castellano when they no longer had to, and have all but forgotten it through lack of use

they likely spoke valenciano at home during the Franco years - which is why the language survived, yet many elderly speakers can't read or write in it

if you in your middle years stopped speaking a language - especially if you chose to & were determined not to, you'd probably forget how to speak it over 30 years later

Re: Spanish languages
 

The same goes for Galegos, I know for a fact that a few younger people who claim to only speak Galego, are telling porkies.

They seemed to forget Castellano at the same time as their political awarness was increasing...........They are from the Bloque and proud of it.

Also in my experience most younger people who are/were taught it in school, seem to avoid it like the plague, they see it as another useless subject, especially if they have their sights set a bit higher than local civil service jobs.

The majority (once again my personal experience) would rather have more foregin languages classes, ie English, French or German and drop the local language classes.

I am not talking about Valencia, but Galicia, but I presume they are similar, and if our own families are not a good cross section of the population, I dont know what is.

Re: Spanish languages
 

I think that is it, if you are determind not to speak Castellano, but then again, these people must never watch TV, only the local channel, or read national press.

It would be easier to forget your first language if you move to a foreign country, and are not exposed to it in any way.

which is not the case if you live in Valencia, or Galicia,to me only speaking the local language in a lot of cases is the equivalent to the wearing of the Burkha.
Making a statement.

Re: Spanish languages
 

yes, you're right, much easier in a foreign country - or perhaps in a tiny village, where they very well might only watch local tele & buy the local language paper


I hear tell of an English guy in a village near me, who years ago when he first came here got a job in a boatyard

he couldn't speak spanish when he started there, and rarely left the village

all his workmates spoke valenciano to each other, so that is the language he learned

apparently he didn't even realise it wasn't 'spanish' until he went away on holiday to a different area after a few years:rofl:


local legend has it that he never did learn to speak spanish:unsure:

Re: Spanish languages
 

In many cases people who live just outside cities speak galego and many people within speak castrapo and they are most certainly not making a statement. The younger generation who live in the cities may be making a statement.

Re: Spanish languages
 

Both of the young ladies that I help say that they think in Valenciano so when trying to say something in English they start with Valenciano, translate into Castellano and then into English. I find that they both seem to have worked out exactly what they want to say to me before they arrive so if I throw a spanner in the works by asking them something they flounder. Their thought through conversation sounds reasonably good but when thrown in the deep end they are a bit lost. My role is to give them the opportunity to practice speaking in English but I often find that I have to provide them with the English words when they lapse into Castellano.

Rosemary

Re: Spanish languages
 

I am not talking about when they speak amongst themselves, they will choose what language they like.
I was referring to the people who will not use Castellano even when speaking to a non local language speaker, which is what the poster on this forum are concered with, they are not bothered what the people speak in ther own home, they are concerend about how it will affect them directly. These people who claim to only speak the local language, if they have been through the education system, then they are making a statment, because the will be able to speak the national language, unless they are a certian age.

And to be honest if the are not prepared to met a spanish speaker half way and try communicate in the easiest way for them, then they are not really very nice people.

My family would never expect someone from Madrid or Germany to speak and understand Galego, even if they do amonst themselves, and the only ones that I know who would insist on speaking Galego, are the more radical Galleguistas.

the more radical see speaking anything but Gallego as "selling out", where as the not so radical see it as simple good manners, to speak the language most likely to be common to both parties.


So I think that you are splitting hairs.

So I will repeat it again, I am talking about the "will not speak Castellano" brigade, right?

but......whaterver........

Re: Spanish languages
 

I have lived and worked on the outskirts of Valencia for 10 years and its my experience that there are but a few enclaves where Valenciano is used but that is all.

Why Javier still uses it is beyond me but its a long way from the city.

My bills and government correspondence all come in Spanish, the newspapers and magazines are all in Spanish, I think that of all the TV and radio stations available here are only one is in Valenciano (Nou) but not sure if that is all of the time. I dont recall ever seeing any literature in the banks in anything but Spanish. Court system is in Spanish.

Kids have a one hour lesson per week to learn Valenciano in the schools where I live.

An incomer to Valencia only needs Spanish.

Re: Spanish languages
 

Well, do these young ladies not watch telly, buy magazines, listen to spanish pop music,suft the internet, ever see other non Valencian speaking people, and to honest if they cant speak the official language of Spain, when living here, then how come the likes of Lynnxas kids can manage, after being here a relatively short time?

I find it incredible that the process of using Castellano is so long winded for them, not to put too fine a point on it, have they been assessed by a specialist?

Because this is not the normal behaviour for local language learners, if it were then parents in certain regions would be up in arms about the standard of eductation at their local level.

Re: Spanish languages
 

who is Javier?:confused:

you are right about an incoming adult not needing to worry about learning valenciano

however.............

when my kids were in International school several years ago there was a meeting for the parents at which we were told that there was a new law which stated that all schools (including internatonal schools) in the valencian community had to teach a minimum of four hours a week - only non-spanish nationals were exempt

I'd be very surprised if that has changed to allow only 1 hour a week

Re: Spanish languages
 

I lived and worked in Denia for a couple of years and found that a small group of local politicians and business people met regularly and with some secrecy, when they would only converse in Valenciano to keep out outsiders.

A similar group in Valencia city probably passed the law to make Valenciano a compulsory subject at school.

Those people might not exist in any great numbers, but they are powerful within the Valencian Community. Anyone applying for building licences would be well advised to make the application on paper in Castellano, but speak Valenciano when meeting up with those important people in power. A brown envelope would also be helpful.

Re: Spanish languages
 

Valenciano is the language used for all 'public' meetings at my kids schools - daft really when so very many of the parents can't speak it (includng spanish parents from outside the area) so everything then has to be repeated in castellano

all paperwork I get from the instituto is only in valenciano - but that might be because my dd is in the valenciano line, the castellano line might get theirs in castellano, or more likely both


a few years ago I was the only Brit on the AMPA committee at the primary school - they were desperately trying to get parents of all nationalities involved, but of course everything was discussed in Spanish

one mother tried to persuade the committee to discuss everything in valenciano - that was the first time I had a major row in Spanish - I got SO angry - then realised everything had gone quiet & thought I'd gone too far:ohmy:

the other mother was outvoted - all of us to 1 against her proposal..................she stormed out & blanks me in the street to this day.............

Re: Spanish languages
 

Ooops Freudian slip:wub: should have written Xabia.

All kids I know are Spanish and in state schools and have compulsory 1 hour Valenciano per week.

Re: Spanish languages
 

or even Jávea:D

I really am surprised - they get more than an hour a week for English in our local state schools!!

are you sure they don't do music, plástica, PE, RE, C. Medi & so on in Valenciano?

that's what happens here - in fact I didn't think you could even get the C Medi books in Castellano!

Re: Spanish languages
 

My point was that they think and speak Valenciano as thier first language, Castellano as their second language and English as their third language. Assessed by a specialist....what on earth do you mean by that? No do not bother to answer as you are so totally off the track.

Rosemary

Re: Spanish languages
 

Go to a rural area in galica and ask them to speak castellano, they will oblige for a minute then revert back to galego/castrapo without realising it. This is mainly the middle-aged to older generation Nothing to do with manners and there is a huge difference between rural and city areas.