mrcusa

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cLgud...eature=channel

steviedeluxe

Interesting to see some of the clips from Madrid. Can't help feeling though that they should have concentrated on somewhere like Alcobendas (where a lot of commuter housing has been built) to illustrate the housing market - they did admit that what they showed was an extreme example though. Who's going to buy a place in a new settlement 1 hour's drive from Madrid? They'll either take the Alcobendas way (half an hour by public transport) or try and find something in Madrid itself. I can't see that particular settlement working even if the good times come back. But who am I to argue with the property developers?
Agree with the point towards the end that the UK, Ireland and Spain have all invested too much in real estate (Spain more than most). Even if the jobs come from the US stimulus - as the following link from the Economist examines - the "sin papeles" will always be left out

economist article

livit

What i find odd on here, probably the a language issue, is how little Expats on this site, and others don`t seem to be disscussing the Spanish economy.

Everyday I watch the news in Spanish and its scary, not only the fact of the situation but the lack of understanding of how the situation occured and can be resolved.

An example is yesterday one minister announces that Seguridad Social will run out of funds within the year, others announcing he`s incorrect etc etc.

300,000 people currently in Spain have had there unemployment/social payments finished and receive no financial help from the govt.

OK Expats probably not to affected by this until maybe a father with 3 kids starts using crime to pay the bills in desperation.

In most Spanish cities large queues form outside charity food kitchens to feed the poor, these are not homeless drunks, but families with children that last year had resonable jobs.

2-3 years wait to turn around Spain, no chance, Spain has the highest unemployment level and fastest growing of all EU countries, the world crisis affecting Spain more because of greed, that will take longer than 10 yrs to resolve.

jdr

Come on, what can an expat do about the things that the Spanish government do.
Probably most of it is media hype, same as any news programs.

steviedeluxe

Livit, if you think that greed is something unique to Spain, I fear you have a blinkered view. It's been just as prevalent here in the UK, and the economy is paying the price just as badly. As for the unemployment figures - Spain has always had higher "official" rates. However in terms of recovery I would suggest that Spain has opportunities that perhaps the UK lags in. The Economist link I gave above gives the hope (and tbh until definite plans are announced it's little more than a hope) that Spain can benefit from the American investment by dint of being a world leader in renewable power. Also the other day, Barrack Obama announced a large investment in high speed train lines in the states. Now, this work may well go to the French, Germans or Japanese, but at least the Spanish now have great experience in laying down large distance high speed rail. This brings me to my next point. In terms of actual work (as opposed to red tape or government obstruction) I've nearly always found the Spanish more efficient than the Brits (don't splutter in your cornflakes!). On the big scale - for example Madrid built something like 80 metro stations in the course of 3 years. You only need to see how long the Wembley stadium took to see how London lags in construction times. Or look at the AVE lines - now Valladolid and Barcelona are connected - I've not followed it closely, but I understand Valencia will be finished this year. How long do you imagine the proposed new line in the UK will end up taking? And can you imagine a British train service offering your money back if there's a delay??? At a more personal level, I've found it's usually very quick to get your coffee or beer served in a Spanish bar. Back in the UK it can take absolutely ages (not just in Wetherspoons either). Again at a personal level I 've worked with Spanish people, and never come across the "lazy manana" image portrayed by the myth makers.
However I digress. There's definitely going to be large numbers of people left without work for a long time - and that's in the UK! Same in Spain, and no amount of foreign contract work, Zara shops or Santander bank acquisitions will compensate for most of this. You mentioned the government running out of funds - well this has already happened in the UK, so the govt is printing money and borrowing it. So perhaps we should be looking at a long-term alternative strategy in western Europe? Otherwise I fear we're looking at finding out the truth of the saying "idle hands are the devil's playground".
Which possibly brings us to the real answer to your question - Why is no-one discussing the economy (spanish or uk)? Possibly because it's too scary to think about!

steviedeluxe

Incidentally, one of the few reasons I admired the previous PM Aznar, was because of the way his administration changed the economy around from having large numbers of unemployed, to a situation where it was said that native Spanish born turned their noses up at certain types of work. Of course he messed up on the foreign policy front, after becoming captivated by Mssrs Bush and Blair.

poshnbucks

Where have all the re invent themselves Brit Builders gone.
They appear to have vanished, I remember 3 years ago hearing them bragging in a bar a couple of villages away how much they charged some poor unsuspecting soul who was naive to trust a fellow brit with his hard earned cash. I hope they all rot in Slovakia the next big thing.............Hee Hee

livit

In the UK its different, not better or worse but different.

Maybe more media hyped in the UK, thats one distinct difference in the UK, the media makes and breaks people, in Spain its facts and less opinion.

Example RBS boss.

The UK media wasn`t interested in how well RBS was doin, was he greedy, incompetent, nope, was he doin a good job, at the time yes, he did what he was paid to do.

Was he a scape goat for the board, yeap, whilst RBS failed, the board grew, that was the point of the business, increase profits, increase the business, at all costs.

One thing for sure, every single person in the countries involved was better off at the time.

The UK media wasn`t interested in any business at the time, the UK media`s sole purpose is to sell and make money, same as RBS.

European media`s sole purpose is to inform its people of facts, followed by profit.

Its sadd to say but British people have lost the ability to think for themselves, they prefer to worship the likes of Jade.The amount of people who slammed her at the racist comments she made, then there praising her at the time of her death, simply because public opinion is made by the media, everybody follows because everybody is scared by the UK media`s power to break a career within hours.

People aren`t spending in the shops in the UK simply because the horror stories in the media.

Its time more control was in forced from the govt.

steviedeluxe

Blimey Livit - I agree with almost all of your last post! Must be some kind of record.
However when you say that people aren`t spending in the shops in the UK simply because of the horror stories in the media, well I beg to differ. People are losing jobs left right and centre. Those who are hanging onto work are seeing their pay rates slashed (see link below). Things are getting grimmer, and it's probably going to take Brown's Wheelbarrow inflation to get us out of deflation.

welcome to pay-cut Britain

jojojojojojojojojojojojo

I believe that most of the job losses we are hearing about are due to previous mismanagement and the need to shed staff anyway and this has been "jumped on " by the media who just like to stir things up and sensationalise everything. Although I cant comment on everywhere and everyone, I´ve yet to hear of anyone that I know who´s lost their job and hasnt managed to get another one within weeks. My husbands business is booming, he sells high end hi fi and has more customers spending more money than ever??? Not the sort of busness you´d expect to do well in a financial crisis

What annoys me is that Bad news is ALWAYS front page news, good news gets a few lines somewhere in the middle of paper. I remember looking when petrol was rising last summer it was all over the papers, when it started to tumble in price... I looked for it and well there were a few lines buried in the back!

Jo

Mike Cross

I watch the Spanish News most days and don't find the economic situation here is discussed to the same extent as the UK.

I suppose the Spanish have better things to do and say.

Mike

jojojojojojojojojojojojo

and I find that refreshing!

Jo

livit

The Spanish media simply state the situation and possible solutions, they don`t send film crews too poor area`s, interviewing people`s feelings on the ground.

Unlike the UK.

The UK is affected probably more regionally than the media is portraying, there are area`s badly effected, due to poor local govt etc.

The media though would prefer to paint doom all over the country.

There are still brits I come accross who are asking me how to get over to Spain, there reasons, to avoid the UK recession.

wendy willis

Talking of the british side of things, my OH works for a car dealership and according to the UK media, car sales are down. His sales target hasn't been changed and he has managed to hit target every month. (almost doubled his target this month)

bigglesworth

None of this is "media hype". It is real.
That is not to say that the reports that people are buying large ticket items are wrong - they are right.
Interest rates are half a percent. CPI inflation (stripping out the cut in VAT) is 4.2 percent (Prosperity Capital). For people in work, last saw, inflation is 6.5 percent (Capital Economics). Everybody is losing half a percent a month on their savings.
You would have to be a bloody fool not to spend - that is one of the effects the cut in interest rates is designed to achieve. To FORCE people to spend their savings.
As well as borrowing more money they cannot afford to repay when interest rates soar after the next election, if Gordon and the Morons can keep the lid on it that long. I myself have my doubts on that - whoever wins the election will have to persuade the markets to lend us 500 to 600 BILLION over the next three years. And Chr*st knows how much every year after that.
Certainly isn't going to be much point having a wad of the folding stuff in your back pocket - it will devalue faster than a politician's promise.