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British Expats (https://britishexpats.com/forum/)
-   Spain (https://britishexpats.com/forum/spain-75/)
-   -   Spain in a 'state of total emergency' ? (https://britishexpats.com/forum/spain-75/spain-state-total-emergency-760244/)

steviedeluxe Jun 2nd 2012 9:02 pm
Re: Spain in a 'state of total emergency' ?
 
Merkel putting pressure on Spain to accept a bail-out package - Rajoy is resisting.

http://www.businessweek.com/news/201...piegel-reports

steviedeluxe Jun 2nd 2012 9:43 pm
Re: Spain in a 'state of total emergency' ?
 
Interesting article in Forbes - Is Spain aiming to take down the Euro?

http://www.forbes.com/sites/haydnsha...the-euro-down/

I certainly didn't know such a high proportion of mortgage debt came from other countries' banks

The key is though that the banks of other European countries also hold a lot of Spain’s debt. A third of the country’s mortgage debt, for example, is owned by French, German and Dutch banks.

Sokyr Jun 2nd 2012 9:58 pm
Re: Spain in a 'state of total emergency' ?
 
What do you know about Greece and Greek people... have a look, this link will give you a good idea.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datab...-working-hours

Originally Posted by HBG (Post 10093455)
The news media, especially the British ones which we mostly read, thrive on bad news, which people want to read. They've exhausted Greece and their lazy people who don't pay their taxes, and have now smelled blood in Spain.

They resent the million Brits living in the sun and hate the Euro and the Germans, who appear to be running the show (which they probably are).

But Spain is in a mess, without a doubt, for many reasons, so we need to read some of the 24/7 bad news because it directly affects all of us.

There's no point in hiding your head in the sand, because when you lift it out you might find the cash points closed and the British Navy parked off-shore to take you home.

Matematik Jun 2nd 2012 10:21 pm
Re: Spain in a 'state of total emergency' ?
 
Originally Posted by HBG (Post 10093455)
They resent the million Brits living in the sun and hate the Euro and the Germans, who appear to be running the show (which they probably are).
So what you're saying is the Spanish are basically bigoted and dislike immigrants living in their country, even model immigrants like the British?

I agree, on the whole the Spanish are somewhat discriminatory to the British. If we in the UK treated Polish immigrants with the same contempt many Spaniards treat the British, we'd be regarded as the most racist country in Europe.

But because the Spaniards are a bit dark, they get away with it, because dark types can't be considered racist in modern left-wing philosophy.

steviedeluxe Jun 2nd 2012 10:28 pm
Re: Spain in a 'state of total emergency' ?
 
Originally Posted by Matematik (Post 10097627)
So what you're saying is the Spanish are basically bigoted and dislike immigrants living in their country, even model immigrants like the British?

I agree, on the whole the Spanish are somewhat discriminatory to the British. If we in the UK treated Polish immigrants with the same contempt many Spaniards treat the British, we'd be regarded as the most racist country in Europe.

But because the Spaniards are a bit dark, they get away with it, because dark types can't be considered racist in modern left-wing philosophy.
Interesting that you've made 2 posts so far. One asking if Greek Cypriots are racist towards the Brits, and this one asking a similar thing about the Spanish. You remind me very much of another poster, long since gone...

I've also heard that living in Cyprus as a British expat is difficult because of their tendency to over-charge British people at any opportunity, and that it's almost ingrained in their business culture, and for the most part you will never get Cypriot prices. You will always be over-charged and there's nothing you can really do about it, there's no one to complain to, and if you do find someone to complain to, you will likely be informed that you are in Cyprus, and if you don't like the way Cypriots do things, then go back to the UK. Often, it will be turned around on the Brit, and you will be made to feel your being racist and judgemental against the Cypriot way.

chrisjolly Jun 2nd 2012 10:37 pm
Re: Spain in a 'state of total emergency' ?
 
Originally Posted by Matematik (Post 10097627)
So what you're saying is the Spanish are basically bigoted and dislike immigrants living in their country, even model immigrants like the British?

I agree, on the whole the Spanish are somewhat discriminatory to the British. If we in the UK treated Polish immigrants with the same contempt many Spaniards treat the British, we'd be regarded as the most racist country in Europe.

But because the Spaniards are a bit dark, they get away with it, because dark types can't be considered racist in modern left-wing philosophy.
It is not possible to generalise like this but certainly attitudes, in my experince, have changed. I think it is human nature to be suspicious of strangers, Mr North, Mr West, in any community and to blame foreigners for problems. How difficult is it to feel part of a small community in Devon, for example, as an outsider or anywhere else for that matter?

bigglesworth Jun 2nd 2012 10:47 pm
Re: Spain in a 'state of total emergency' ?
 
I certainly didn't know such a high proportion of mortgage debt came from other countries' banks[/QUOTE]

The problem I think is NO-ONE knows who owes what and to whom. All we really know is that it is a lot.

What is Italy's position? In order to qualify for the Euro, they took all their public sector pension deficit off balance sheet (did anyone really believe Gordon Brown thought up that little wheeze all on his own?). France did much the same with the loans for the TGV (I wonder when that would actually show an economic return - the 25th century?). I think a lot is hidden in the regions. The German central government budget is very healthy, but take a look at some of the Laender and again you get a very different picture.

Strangely, the most open position is the UK, but even here i just have this sneaky feeling that someone somewhere is telling porkies. And perhaps it will not be fixed until someone somewhere starts telling us the truth.

Oh look- there goes another one. Those pigs will be flying in formation soon.

Domino Jun 2nd 2012 11:00 pm
Re: Spain in a 'state of total emergency' ?
 
Originally Posted by bigglesworth (Post 10097655)
I certainly didn't know such a high proportion of mortgage debt came from other countries' banks
The problem I think is NO-ONE knows who owes what and to whom. All we really know is that it is a lot.

What is Italy's position? In order to qualify for the Euro, they took all their public sector pension deficit off balance sheet (did anyone really believe Gordon Brown thought up that little wheeze all on his own?). France did much the same with the loans for the TGV (I wonder when that would actually show an economic return - the 25th century?). I think a lot is hidden in the regions. The German central government budget is very healthy, but take a look at some of the Laender and again you get a very different picture.

Strangely, the most open position is the UK, but even here i just have this sneaky feeling that someone somewhere is telling porkies. And perhaps it will not be fixed until someone somewhere starts telling us the truth.

Oh look- there goes another one. Those pigs will be flying in formation soon.
well UK off balance sheet has already come home to roost with all the NHS spending on that marvelous invention PFI.
my local hospital used to more or less break even, like most. Now because of a new PFI hospital they are running at £55million + in overspend and it grows every year.

which then asks the questions about where has all the money gone to ??
and what will be the debt in 25 years when the PFI's come to an end ??

steviedeluxe Jun 2nd 2012 11:08 pm
Re: Spain in a 'state of total emergency' ?
 
Originally Posted by bigglesworth (Post 10097655)
I certainly didn't know such a high proportion of mortgage debt came from other countries' banks
The problem I think is NO-ONE knows who owes what and to whom. All we really know is that it is a lot.

What is Italy's position? In order to qualify for the Euro, they took all their public sector pension deficit off balance sheet (did anyone really believe Gordon Brown thought up that little wheeze all on his own?). France did much the same with the loans for the TGV (I wonder when that would actually show an economic return - the 25th century?). I think a lot is hidden in the regions. The German central government budget is very healthy, but take a look at some of the Laender and again you get a very different picture.

Strangely, the most open position is the UK, but even here i just have this sneaky feeling that someone somewhere is telling porkies. And perhaps it will not be fixed until someone somewhere starts telling us the truth.

Oh look- there goes another one. Those pigs will be flying in formation soon.
Indeed. It's no surprise that Cameron and Osborne are desperate to see the Euro continue and the plates keep spinning.
But we may see this week whether Rajoy has the bottle (and indeed can carry the Spanish govt with him) to stand his ground, or indeed to accept the bail-out, which as we've seen in Greece, Ireland, Portugal, helps the banks and makes things worse for everyone else. Another alternative is that we see Germany change policy, which is a possibility albeit a small one.

Matematik Jun 2nd 2012 11:24 pm
Re: Spain in a 'state of total emergency' ?
 
Originally Posted by chrisjolly (Post 10097647)
It is not possible to generalise like this but certainly attitudes, in my experince, have changed. I think it is human nature to be suspicious of strangers, Mr North, Mr West, in any community and to blame foreigners for problems. How difficult is it to feel part of a small community in Devon, for example, as an outsider or anywhere else for that matter?
I don't see how the British can be blamed for Spain's problems at all. The British are mostly entirely self-suporting, rarely if ever take local jobs, don't claim benefits and many even have private health insurance and do not use the state system at all, mainly because in some areas entitlement is an issue.

"Blame the Brits" has been the natural response of the Spanish for years though, I guess it all stems from Gibraltar. The Argentinians do it a lot too, I guess it must be a Hispanic thing.

Domino Jun 3rd 2012 2:31 am
Re: Spain in a 'state of total emergency' ?
 
Originally Posted by Matematik (Post 10097688)
I don't see how the British can be blamed for Spain's problems at all. The British are mostly entirely self-suporting, rarely if ever take local jobs, don't claim benefits and many even have private health insurance and do not use the state system at all, mainly because in some areas entitlement is an issue.

"Blame the Brits" has been the natural response of the Spanish for years though, I guess it all stems from Gibraltar. The Argentinians do it a lot too, I guess it must be a Hispanic thing.
well it started when Wellington decided that Scorched Earth was the only way to stop the French from living off the land and stretching their supply trains from France to breaking point. It is the Brits that are wrong, but what would have happened to Spain (and Portugal) if Napoleon had been allowed to carry on with his conquests.?
Presumably the alternate universe would be without a Franco and France would be in Germany's position now, although perhaps we wouldnt have had a Nazi Germany.

I can see no reason for a "blame the Brits" attitude, as you say we are to a greater extent self supporting, probably putting back in 5 fold compared with what we are allowed to take out.

I hear little about the Italian, Polish, Russian, Lituanian communities on the CDS who are imposing their own wills by Mafia style tactics, in some cases with even more than the normal brutality associated with what we see in The Godfather.

Many Brits are paying dearly for their involvement in Spain, shackled to houses not built properly, dodgy provenence of documentation, mayors who authorised building now heady to or already in a cell for corruption.

And yet oh so many Brits want to help the Spanish in this another "hour of need", to support them and do all they can to help

But please do not make a promise, give someone a present and then ask for it back because you think it would like nicer on your keyring than ours.
Gibraltar is not for returning

alecalgo Jun 3rd 2012 7:27 am
Re: Spain in a 'state of total emergency' ?
 
Originally Posted by Domino (Post 10097847)
But please do not make a promise, give someone a present and then ask for it back because you think it would like nicer on your keyring than ours.
Gibraltar is not for returning
Why on earth not ? Would it not be better to give back Gib and the Falkland Islands NOW. When we can cloak it as a magnamious gesture of good will. Thus covering up the fact that Scotland will eventually go it's own way, revealing us to the world as mere tinpot nation. Good forward thinking it'd be as cover for the certainty that England will become within 25 years as impotent as, say, Poland, on the world stage. Impotent insofar that in 10 - 20 years time we can never retain the two places by the only threat remaining in our arsenal, that of nuclear war.
Then there is the bleedin obvious ...! that the two of them, Spain & Argentine will eventually see the light and agree to tool up for the agression and then act simultaneously to giant-kill the one-time arrogant now pretend superpower.
We should just agree that NOW is the right time for a Hong-Kong style handover. When it can be done with a bit of pomp and ceremony ... see it as the proper thing to do .... hand them over while we can do it in good grace. Do it now, before the two useless (to us) left-over fragments of the hubris of Empire are ignominously snatched from us !
alec

bigglesworth Jun 3rd 2012 7:55 am
Re: Spain in a 'state of total emergency' ?
 
Originally Posted by alecalgo (Post 10098174)
Why on earth not ? Would it not be better to give back Gib and the Falkland Islands NOW. When we can cloak it as a magnamious gesture of good will. Thus covering up the fact that Scotland will eventually go it's own way, revealing us to the world as mere tinpot nation. Good forward thinking it'd be as cover for the certainty that England will become within 25 years as impotent as, say, Poland, on the world stage. Impotent insofar that in 10 - 20 years time we can never retain the two places by the only threat remaining in our arsenal, that of nuclear war.
Then there is the bleedin obvious ...! that the two of them, Spain & Argentine will eventually see the light and agree to tool up for the agression and then act simultaneously to giant-kill the one-time arrogant now pretend superpower.
We should just agree that NOW is the right time for a Hong-Kong style handover. When it can be done with a bit of pomp and ceremony ... see it as the proper thing to do .... hand them over while we can do it in good grace. Do it now, before the two useless (to us) left-over fragments of the hubris of Empire are ignominously snatched from us !
alec
Tip for the future - these arrogant rants are always a bit more impressive if you learn to spell first.

Simply using big words without any real comprehension of their meaning degrades further your silly little polemic.

Grow up.

rugbymatt Jun 3rd 2012 8:02 am
Re: Spain in a 'state of total emergency' ?
 
Originally Posted by alecalgo (Post 10098174)
Why on earth not ? Would it not be better to give back Gib and the Falkland Islands NOW. When we can cloak it as a magnamious gesture of good will. Thus covering up the fact that Scotland will eventually go it's own way, revealing us to the world as mere tinpot nation. Good forward thinking it'd be as cover for the certainty that England will become within 25 years as impotent as, say, Poland, on the world stage. Impotent insofar that in 10 - 20 years time we can never retain the two places by the only threat remaining in our arsenal, that of nuclear war.
Then there is the bleedin obvious ...! that the two of them, Spain & Argentine will eventually see the light and agree to tool up for the agression and then act simultaneously to giant-kill the one-time arrogant now pretend superpower.
We should just agree that NOW is the right time for a Hong-Kong style handover. When it can be done with a bit of pomp and ceremony ... see it as the proper thing to do .... hand them over while we can do it in good grace. Do it now, before the two useless (to us) left-over fragments of the hubris of Empire are ignominously snatched from us !
alec
Got all that shouty bold stuff turned off, we can talk like adults now. I have to raise you on one point, if you think for one second that Spain will back Argentina after its recent actions concerning Repsol you have a lot to learn about world politics. Oh and wouldn't it be funny if good quality oil could be found in the Falklands? Wouldn't be so useless then eh?

agoreira Jun 3rd 2012 8:07 am
Re: Spain in a 'state of total emergency' ?
 
Originally Posted by alecalgo (Post 10098174)
We should just agree that NOW is the right time for a Hong-Kong style handover.
Who's this "we"? presumably you mean the British and the Spanish, as the people of Gib made it abundantly clear (around 98%) that they want nothing to do with Spain, I can never see them agreeing to any such thing. But perhaps they don't matter, or the Falkland Islanders, so long as we placate the Spanish and the Argentinians. Spain to tool up? They've haven't got the military power at the moment, and a recent defence cut of €27 billion will give them even less, God knows where they'd get the money to tool up. They're on the bones of their culo.


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