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-   -   Spain rental prices a big problem (https://britishexpats.com/forum/spain-75/spain-rental-prices-big-problem-951727/)

tdrinker Jun 17th 2024 3:04 am

Re: Spain rental prices a big problem
 

Originally Posted by Lospacoshombre (Post 13258473)
This is a U.K. government thing, and it is radically changing the private rental market. I predict that in the future private rental homes will be build to rent as pension funds will build entire estates of new build rental properties, and small time one off landlords will slowly disappear.

The current UK government does seem to want big companies investing in build to rents rather than independent landlord, although build to rent tends to be flats not family homes. And they are often more expensive than similar flats rented by private landlords, so unless there's a big increase in supply that brings down rents, it isn't the solution to the affordability problem.

tdrinker Jun 17th 2024 3:12 am

Re: Spain rental prices a big problem
 

Originally Posted by growinspain (Post 13258428)
When Airbnb started it was to rent a room in your occupied home... Their greed is also the problem

It was also people renting out their own home whilst on holiday. Now it's mostly professional landlords renting dedicated rental properties, with higher prices as well.

tdrinker Jun 17th 2024 3:19 am

Re: Spain rental prices a big problem
 

Originally Posted by Lospacoshombre (Post 13258368)
... western central banks printing money has worked its way down to the lowest common denominator ie fixed assets.

Money printing combined with low interest rates. It also drove up stock markets, and pretty much every other asset as people chased a return on their money. It also lead to inflation (cost of living crisis), which everyone but the central banks saw coming, who belatedly put up interest rates to try and control it.

1sexsmith Jun 17th 2024 5:45 pm

Re: Spain rental prices a big problem
 
https://www.20minutos.es/noticia/552...0-sobre-total/

You can see now that they are starting to apply limits on licences.

astera Jun 19th 2024 10:49 am

Re: Spain rental prices a big problem
 

Originally Posted by 1sexsmith (Post 13258354)
I do work for one of the construction companies and they say they sell like hot cakes to Russian, Ukrainian and Chinese many of who do not even intend to use them- simply because Spain is seen as a safe place to put your money- so things like this don't help!!!

Or maybe they mean a safe place to put your money without anyone asking where it came from?

Best way forward to to A) get rid of short-term rentals in regular, residential properties B) greatly increase property taxes for non-resident owners C) also greatly increase property taxes for every subsequent property that is not your primary place of residence.

growinspain Jun 19th 2024 11:26 am

Re: Spain rental prices a big problem
 

Originally Posted by astera (Post 13259065)
Or maybe they mean a safe place to put your money without anyone asking where it came from?

Best way forward to to A) get rid of short-term rentals in regular, residential properties B) greatly increase property taxes for non-resident owners C) also greatly increase property taxes for every subsequent property that is not your primary place of residence.

France does it so why should not Spain...

tdrinker Jun 20th 2024 1:04 am

Re: Spain rental prices a big problem
 

Originally Posted by 1sexsmith (Post 13258354)
I do work for one of the construction companies and they say they sell like hot cakes to Russian, Ukrainian and Chinese many of who do not even intend to use them- simply because Spain is seen as a safe place to put your money- so things like this don't help!!!

Storing wealth outside their own country. Many Chinese prefer to hold their money in physical assets such as property rather than in a bank or shares. They also prefer new which may explain why they sometimes keep their properties vacant. It's not just Spanish properties that are used to store wealth, of course.

tdrinker Jun 20th 2024 1:19 am

Re: Spain rental prices a big problem
 

Originally Posted by astera (Post 13259065)
Best way forward to to A) get rid of short-term rentals in regular, residential properties B) greatly increase property taxes for non-resident owners C) also greatly increase property taxes for every subsequent property that is not your primary place of residence.

Several countries are heading down this road, e.g. it's common to see signs on buildings in SE Asia saying no short-term rentals. London (and other locations) limits short-term rentals to 90 days without planning permission, although landlords sidestep it by advertising the same property on numerous websites, as each website knows the rental days on its website only. Many countries simply don't let non-residents buy property.

Airbnb type companies should work with authorities to solve this problem voluntarily, otherwise they will be subject to legislation.

DLC Jun 20th 2024 6:44 am

Re: Spain rental prices a big problem
 

Originally Posted by Lospacoshombre (Post 13258473)
speaking from the U.K., government legislation has radically altered the market (coupled with interest rates). So in short yes government over intervention is the issue here.

I thought the conservative government were just letting a free-for-all happen and it was survival of the biggest (I won't say fittest), I didn't realise they were also actively legislating against small landlords.

astera Jun 20th 2024 11:55 am

Re: Spain rental prices a big problem
 

Originally Posted by tdrinker (Post 13259148)
Storing wealth outside their own country. Many Chinese prefer to hold their money in physical assets such as property rather than in a bank or shares. They also prefer new which may explain why they sometimes keep their properties vacant. It's not just Spanish properties that are used to store wealth, of course.

Very true. A lot of investments aren't even geared for returns but merely to store value. A proper tax solution will easily take care of this.


Originally Posted by tdrinker (Post 13259152)
Several countries are heading down this road, e.g. it's common to see signs on buildings in SE Asia saying no short-term rentals. London (and other locations) limits short-term rentals to 90 days without planning permission, although landlords sidestep it by advertising the same property on numerous websites, as each website knows the rental days on its website only. Many countries simply don't let non-residents buy property.

There should never be any signs about no short-term rentals, just put signs where it is allowed.

Almost all countries allow foreigners to purchase properties, but many have additional costs for those who are not resident. IMO they should take this a step further and introduce annual (and quite high) taxes for non-resident owners.


Originally Posted by DLC (Post 13259233)
I thought the conservative government were just letting a free-for-all happen and it was survival of the biggest (I won't say fittest), I didn't realise they were also actively legislating against small landlords.

The tories are on the way out and completely clueless with regards to absolutely EVERYTHING. Hopefully people will vote tactically to remove many of them from office.

tdrinker Jun 20th 2024 11:08 pm

Re: Spain rental prices a big problem
 

Originally Posted by astera (Post 13259296)
Almost all countries allow foreigners to purchase properties, but many have additional costs for those who are not resident.

Increasingly, countries are introducing restrictions. Canada and New Zealand don't allow non-residents to purchase property. In Australia, a non-resident requires government approval and cannot purchase a pre-existing property. Many other countries apply restrictions that effectively prevent many people being able to purchase property.

tdrinker Jun 20th 2024 11:22 pm

Re: Spain rental prices a big problem
 

Originally Posted by DLC (Post 13259233)
I thought the conservative government were just letting a free-for-all happen and it was survival of the biggest (I won't say fittest), I didn't realise they were also actively legislating against small landlords.

A few years ago, the government removed the ability for unincorporated landlords to offset mortgage interest against rent for tax purposes. They also removed the 10% wear and tear tax allowance for furnished lettings. The aim appears to be to push small landlords out and replace them with large "build to rent" landlords. Unknown is what the incoming Labour government will do, but there are sporadic calls for rent controls/caps, etc. They will likely favour tenants over landlords, but sometimes there is unintended consequences, e.g. the SNP introduced rent controls in Scotland for existing tenancies, and landlords responded by with large rent increases for new tenancies, plus supply reduced.

1sexsmith Jun 21st 2024 12:06 am

Re: Spain rental prices a big problem
 
Just watched the Spanish news. Barcelona to prohibit all tourist rentals by 2028!!

https://elpais.com/espana/catalunya/2024-06-21/barcelona-eliminara-los-pisos-turisticos-de-la-ciudad-en-cinco-anos.html

Barriej Jun 21st 2024 12:22 am

Re: Spain rental prices a big problem
 

Originally Posted by tdrinker (Post 13259376)
A few years ago, the government removed the ability for unincorporated landlords to offset mortgage interest against rent for tax purposes. They also removed the 10% wear and tear tax allowance for furnished lettings. The aim appears to be to push small landlords out and replace them with large "build to rent" landlords. Unknown is what the incoming Labour government will do, but there are sporadic calls for rent controls/caps, etc. They will likely favour tenants over landlords, but sometimes there is unintended consequences, e.g. the SNP introduced rent controls in Scotland for existing tenancies, and landlords responded by with large rent increases for new tenancies, plus supply reduced.

Id like to say Good to not giving tax relief on greedy people wanting to 'own' large numbers of property.
Property should not be an investment, a roof over someones head should be a right...and at a reasonable price.

I think there should be a purchase tax of around 30% of the sale price for anyone buying a second home in their own country, with no relief on anything and remove the ability to form a 'property management company' as well.
Also interest rates for people wanting to purchase using another property should attract maybe 15% not usual base rates.
And then there should be a sales tax when these people sell on as well.

And I was Ok with paying the 10% here even though this is our home. It keeps prices down (property here in the village has risen maybe 5% at most since we purchased).
The non resident tax should also be higher as here its a paltry amount 1.1% of 24% of the value. It should be more like one or two percent of the total. Even thats a small amount and is a small price to pay in my opinion for having a second or holiday home.

My wife watches that homes under the hammer program and the other day they interviewed someone who 'owned' 200 properties. All he was doing was mortgaging one to buy another while stiffing the people who unlike him were unable to afford to buy but were paying him some £300 a month more than a 75% mortgage would cost (if you could actually get one).

This person could have afforded to almost give people a free home as he would still have the equity and the profits when sold. So why be greedy.
When we rented, I maintained the flat, I replaced the washing machine when it broke (after all I used it), decorated (with colours allowed by the landlord) and in the nearly six years we lived there the rent was never raised and we got our full deposit back.
The landlords mother visited us the day before we moved out with a bunch of flowers and a bottle of wine as we had been the best tenants they had ever had.
But he still had insurance in case we were not.
The flat went back on the market for rent at nearly £500 a month more than we were paying and there was a queue of people wanting it.

Im also not in favour of renting out or AirBnB ing flats and rooms in blocks that are mainly for families or completely residencial etc.
If you want to earn some money doing this then buy something in a tourist area specifically built for the purpose. Oh hang on, then it would cost more than you would make back... Silly me...

In our block, there are two flats for rental. One was on AirBnB but they didn't ask for permission as its states quite clearly in our rules that flats cannot be rented out on a commercial basis. So they lost their licence.
The one below us is owned by a lady in the village and her family and friends use it (do they pay, I dont know) but they are quiet so we dont care.




Fred James Jun 21st 2024 2:10 am

Re: Spain rental prices a big problem
 
I think landlords still get all the extra allowance and a 60% tax reduction on long term lets. That makes sense as it encourages landlords to let to people who need a home not a holiday.


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