Spain has not expelled any Brits!
 

I'm sure we've all heard anecdotes about expulsions for overstays or for residence omisions, but according to the EU's own oracle, Eurostat, Spain had not expelled any UK citizen since Brexit and up to Q3/2022. The figures are not yet available for Q4/2022 so we'll see if that changes. Be interested to hear what you guys and gals make of these stats:
https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/databr.../table?lang=en

Re: Spain has not expelled any Brits!
 

The question is what does this entail? Does someone leaving who is caught out at the border, gets a ban or re-entering Spain (or actually Schengen since any ban covers the entire area), but is then allowed to depart on their scheduled flight get included on this list? I mean they haven't been "ordered to leave" but simply allowed to leave on their own accord, albeit with an unforeseen decoration added to their passport.

Or maybe the list goes even further and only takes into account those who have been "ordered to leave" by receiving a courteous letter by snail mail instructing them to leave the country by so and so date? So those forced out/deported are not taken into account as the list only applies to people who have been nicely told to leave.

Re: Spain has not expelled any Brits!
 

Guessing that doesn't include extradition then:
Briton pleads guilty to hacking stars' Twitter accounts to steal Bitcoin | Science & Tech News | Sky News

Re: Spain has not expelled any Brits!
 

If you work around the menus at the top of the page, you'll find all the explanatory notes. FYI: Here is the extract of what the stats include:
Presentation of the data source(s)/national registers/Source Data
Third-country nationals refused at border NATIONAL POLICE
Third-country nationals found to be illegally present NATIONAL POLICE
Third-country nationals who are subject to an obligation to leave NATIONAL POLICE
Third-country nationals effectively returned by type of return and citizenship NATIONAL POLICE
Third-country nationals effectively returned to a third-country by type of return and citizenship NATIONAL POLICE

Re: Spain has not expelled any Brits!
 

UPDATE: Q4/2022 is now available too, and Spain still did not force any Brits to leave:
https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/databr.../table?lang=en

Re: Spain has not expelled any Brits!
 

I wouldn't feel confident if I was illegal because the situation can and probably will change at some point, possibly without forewarning. I wouldn't want to worry every time I crossed a border (or has some interaction with the authorities) that this may be the time I get caught out. Others are of a less nervous disposition, if course.

Re: Spain has not expelled any Brits!
 

Totally agree and I'm not suggesting for one minute that anyone should ignore the rules. I'm just pointing out that all the bovine excrement that we've all heard, about people being refused re-entry or being ejected at the border is not bourne out by any of the EU's statistics. Spain has expelled tens of thousands of people during this time, but ZERO have been UK citizens.

Re: Spain has not expelled any Brits!
 

I read somewhere weeks ago about this and Sweden has expelled most Brits for not complying with residence rules compared to any other EU country - sorry don't have a link for that.

This as far as I know is all to do with the post-Brexit situation for complying with the residence laws for each EU country and nothing to do with extradition.

Although I don't have firsthand knowledge of other countries I think we Brits have had it pretty easy to remain in Spain post-Brexit assuming we were legal pre-Brexit - OK the DL situation was messy for some. Still, in the round, we have had to do nothing except apply for TIE if we wanted too. (I am talking about those living in Spain before the Brexit deadline - 1/1/21)

Re: Spain has not expelled any Brits!
 

Doesnt surprise me after I know personally of a couple who have been allowed to do this..
And will probably get the NLV they flew back to the Uk to apply for before returning here after having spent nearly five months here.

What annoys me most is that someone who may mistime the 90 days, maybe through no fault of their own, like a delayed or cancelled flight, will in likelihood be the one person that gets singled out the next time they fly.
Not those who have decided that its not hard to defeat the border control and looking at those figures it aint hard....
No wonder convicted murders etc can move around the EU and even fly into Ireland (and the UK when it was part of the EU) and face no recriminations).
There have been documented cases of this actually happening and them having a no fly ban.

Im not giving anything away here but the best time to arrive in certain Spanish airports is very late at night or before 4am in the morning as you just get waved through..
This is fact as my son did this, the only desk open was the EU passport one and they just briefly looked at his passport and everyone else on the flight... Didnt stamp anyones passport at all....
He did get an out stamp but the border guard wasn't even checking for the in ones (again this was a very late night flight out of Alicante last October)..

I had heard (but dont have evidence) that there are a few people living on the campsites in Benidorm who had been back to the Uk and returned a couple of times since 1/1/21 and were still not resident here...

And before the "but the ETIAS system will stop this' is spouted. There are and have been rules and laws to prevent people from entering countries without permission.
There must be a way of flagging this up but unfortunately the Spanish way will be for the official to decide which bits of the rules he/she/they/it want to actually take any notice of..

I have stood in the immigration area in lots of airports many times during overseas visits to work in the past and having to explain in detail why I am there (even though I had a perfectly legal in date work visa) and having all the paperwork required etc.
I even got refused once because the work visa in my passport said BARRY and it should have been BARRIE., that of all places was the US and I was off to fix the bundling machine in the US bank note printers....funniest three hours of my life....

Anyway this subject is annoying me again and I have to go out for dinner with some good friends later so Im off....

Re: Spain has not expelled any Brits!
 

Surely if no Brits have been expelled, that's a good thing right? Or am i missing something?

Re: Spain has not expelled any Brits!
 

I heard of someone getting caught overstaying in Spain. They got told not to come back for 6 months. I keep hearing how this etias is going to be the end of uk overstayers but I can’t see it happening. UK will be back in the EU by the time it’s in place. Spain and the rest of the EU know that too.

Re: Spain has not expelled any Brits!
 

I thought it was starting next year? There's no way UK will rejoin in next 5-10 years

Re: Spain has not expelled any Brits!
 

maybe. But having a closer aligned relationship is definitely on the cards. The government have already back tracked on the bonfire of EU laws. Labour haven’t ruled out going into partnership with the Lib Dem’s. Brexit was just a lovers tiff.

Re: Spain has not expelled any Brits!
 

Even if what you say is true (which I doubt very much) Labour could not be held to ransom by the Lib Dems ref Brexit, middle England and the red wall seats would desert them in droves again, and without those seats Labour have no chance of anything close to a majority, seeing as the SNP continue to deny Labour in Scotland. Its just unworkable, And I doubt the EU wouldn't allow the UK to region on past terms, i am sure it would mean Schengen, the Euro etc etc. that is not going to happen in the UK in the even medium term let alone short term.

Re: Spain has not expelled any Brits!
 

Whether it's a good or bad thing I suppose depends on ones personal situation . I guess many would say if they have bothered to comply re Schengen rules or residency why should others just be allowed to ignore the rules. Of course if I was living under the radar I would think it a good thing. It makes a mockery of laws / rules if the border officials ignore there own rules, what's the point of having them?

Re: Spain has not expelled any Brits!
 

At a pure guess, maybe Spain has taken the choice to be "flexible" when checking UK citizens 90/180 travel as they fear it could hurt the tourism economy, with not just second home owners spending money here, but general tourists also. Just a guess, no idea really

Re: Spain has not expelled any Brits!
 

I think you are right it comes down to self interest re tourism. Thing is though they signed up to the Schengen rules and ignoring them makes a mockery of the rules. I suppose it would take the EU to make Spain enforce the rules they have agreed to. I guess the EU either isn't aware or ignores the issue itself? I can see though why people who do comply feel frustrated that others get away with not complying. I guess many thought people wouldn't get away with being under the radar as many did pre brexit , reality is it would seem little has changed.

Re: Spain has not expelled any Brits!
 

I would think its doubtful the EU are unaware. I am sure i read somewhere (could be wrong) Spain wanted to change the rules for UK visitors to 180/360, but the EU wouldn't allow it? Maybe its just a thing the EU are allowing to happen, to satisfy Spain's needs.

Re: Spain has not expelled any Brits!
 

Hola,
Yes, you are indeed correct in that Spain, amongst others, would like the rules changed. However, when the electronic system in in force, there will be no chance of anyone overstaying without being noticed so the EU are simply not doing anything until the new electronic system is in place

Davexf

Re: Spain has not expelled any Brits!
 

Some time next year? the year after? etc etc
Isn't the UK's similar (of course smaller) system beginning this year?

Re: Spain has not expelled any Brits!
 

I am of the opinion that things probably will change with the introduction of the EU-wide Entry / Exit System, since countries are going to be expected to act on infringements and vigilance on compliance will be possible. An enormous amount of money and effort has been expended on the project, so surely it can't all be for nothing.

On the other hand, I don't see how ordinary tourism would be severely adversely affected if that does become the case. Surely there can't be that many genuine tourists who have both the time and the means to be away from home for months on end. The vast majority of visitors, and the revenue they generate, would surely come from people spending between a few days and a fortnight in the country. That is just a wild assumption on my part, though.

This is a bit old (2015) but has some bearing on the topic under discussion and how it's dealt with in each of the member states, so yes, the EU is clearly aware of what goes on (as one would expect, even without the existence of such a published report) :

Council of The European Union - Overstayers in the EU

Re: Spain has not expelled any Brits!
 

Certainly I get your point, But, some tourists when faced with having to get an ETA for EU tourism may choose to spend their money elsewhere? who knows. I suspect the majority of people it would affect are retired couples looking to spend the colder months in their second homes, which, I would have thought is of a reasonable benefit to the Spanish economy. People with more disposable income. who would spend 5 or 6months here pre Brexit.

Re: Spain has not expelled any Brits!
 

Possibly, but that's a bit of a separate issue from whether, having got the documents they need in order to travel, they are picked up for overstaying and how that might be dealt with when there's a big red alert recorded on a sytem which presents it to every border officer every time that individual crosses the external Schengen border.

If that really is a major concern to the Spanish government, they are at liberty to create a national visa for extension of stay for that purpose.

Re: Spain has not expelled any Brits!
 

Who knows, maybe they will when the ETA system is up and running, and for now they are prepared to look the other way. Tine will tell

Re: Spain has not expelled any Brits!
 

Since you all like to quote facts and figures can someone find the percentage of GDP - yearly - for Brit tourasses in Spain? 0,05%? 1% LoL?

Re: Spain has not expelled any Brits!
 

What? If i understand you correctly, UK tourism added 17.16 billion Euros to Spain's economy in 2022 according to Statista, no idea about GDP (Look yourself) but its a lot of money
Bearing in mind as far as I can see, Spain's defence budget is 12.5 billion Euros.

Re: Spain has not expelled any Brits!
 

:goodpost:

If you could split out the amount contributed by 90+ days' tourists, that would be even better :)

Re: Spain has not expelled any Brits!
 

There is a facility to refuse entry to persons who might represent a danger to the public, so where a border control exists between member states (as is the case for non-Schengen states such as Ireland (and the UK, when it was a member)), that is eminently enforceable, assuming border control officers have the relevant information at their fingertips.

That doesn't apply at borders within the Schengen area, of course, given the abolition of border controls in that region.

Re: Spain has not expelled any Brits!
 

Maybe tomorrow ;)

Re: Spain has not expelled any Brits!
 

There's a link here posted by an all-round great chap.

Re: Spain has not expelled any Brits!
 

This year it'll just be for Qatar, at the end of the year. More middle eastern countries at the beginning of next year. Electronic Travel Authorisation (ETA)

But as the Home Office have just tendered a new borders contract to Cap Gemini, there's every chance it'll be delayed.

Re: Spain has not expelled any Brits!
 

That's the NLV isn't it?

Re: Spain has not expelled any Brits!
 

The NLV is a residence visa, which is applied for from abroad.

I was thinking more along the lines of an extension that could be applied for in country, not amounting to formal residence and the obligations that implies.

Re: Spain has not expelled any Brits!
 

Bear in mind that Brexit- mad UK initially detained some Spanish people for entering the country for suspected infringements of immigration. There was a young Spanish girl locked up for a night despite having the right to enter uk and also the father of a Spanish student who went to visit his daughter. The UK has been much stricter about applying their rules to EU persons so I am all for Spain treating UK nats the same.

Re: Spain has not expelled any Brits!
 

I find it hard to believe the UK are being strict about applying rules for EU nationals, and don't forget, EU nationals get 180/360 in the UK as apposed to 90/180

Re: Spain has not expelled any Brits!
 

I don't see why anybody wouldn't believe the UK is enforcing its own rules strictly.

That aside, EU (and other) natonals don't get 180/360. They get up to 180 days per visit, which is significantly different.

Re: Spain has not expelled any Brits!
 

They don't even stamp passports in or out, so how can they effectively enforce that rule? 180 days per visit or 180/360 is far more than the EU gives UK citizens though isn't it?

Re: Spain has not expelled any Brits!
 

Stamping of the passport nowadays is primarily for your benefit and to provide a simple visual check of movements, but it is not the main border control. UK and EU have eBorders, with the transport carriers feeding back your API into the government systems.

The passport should be stamped if it is required. Here is the link to the UK governments requirements on carriers, land sea or air.

https://www.gov.uk/government/collec...er-information

EDIT: I'll say it before anyone asks, I have no idea how channel swimmers are controlled.......... :) and of course, there are no shortage of small boats in Dover waiting to go back across the channel either!

Re: Spain has not expelled any Brits!
 

Not just EU nationals in fact almost all countries nationals can stay in the UK for 180/360 and this has been in law for many years. In the 70's and 80' thats why there were loads of Aussies in London...
There are countries with agreements with Spain for longer periods BUT these all predate the EU or the FOM acts.

If I had been in Government on 1/1/21 I would have opened the UK borders to all Commonwealth country nationals to come and work in the fields and factories if they wanted too, to replace the EU nationals who didn't bother to become resident and fled home. (allegedly)

The only reason it stopped is due to the FOM act and the UK had to scale back the amount of non EU citizens it allowed in......
The thing with the Uk is though its residency rules are complex and this can catch people out.

I cant see how Spain could alter the 90/180 as its a Schengen ruling and what would stop you from coming here for a couple of months, driving to France and as long as you exited Spain you would be OK.
Nope cant see it happening and I dont think it should either. Doesn't Spain have this rule (law) that after being here more than 90 days you must apply for residency??? How you going to get round that???
Oh just as the Dutch, German etc do (and Uk citizens before Brexit). Dont bother.. We have a French couple who live in the village, they have been here 10 years, never go back to France, dont have a house in France, ITV their French reg car here and pay no tax except the non residence (he reckons they are better off by a couple of thousand euro a year this way).
They are not the only ones either, we know of at least ten other couples of various nationalities who do the same.

One of my long running gripes with the EU is the lack of standards across countries. It bills itself as one nation (trying to bully the Olympics into allowing its flag) etc and devising ways to be inclusive and being allowed by all its members to pass laws and rules but then for each country to then just ignore the bits they dont like.
It always seemed to me that the UK was one of the only members who actually took the EU laws and incorporated them into its laws, the others (Germany) etc only used the bits that would be of benefit to them.
I worked in a factory in Furstenau for a few years and part of the building was left unfinished, because a grant from the EU was given to all companies who wanted to expand their factory space. This had been left partly finished but occupied for over 10 years so they could get the grant. They had never been audited, the money just appeared every year in their bank account...
Technicolor (the filmed in company owned by UK Carlton Communication) had a factory in Eindhoven and this was the same (I was the engineering supervisor there for a few years) our workshop and stores were in this part of the building and the roof was a tarp and it was cold in the winter...

I doubt that even the ETIAS system or whatever will stop undocumented people, it will slow some down but it wont take long to get round it..
And like most things the EU have decided to do it keeps getting delayed, it should have been up and running by 2021 its been delayed due to the contractor saying its not been possible to implement it fully. This has happened twice now.

BUT there is a system now but its not being implemented, a simple potato stamp with a date in and a date out on the same page is not rocket science or are these border guards overworked and under paid, illiterate, dont care, had orders not to bother, football team won/lost/drew, there is no cheese in my sandwich ????.. You get my drift. Its simple just do it....

And will Spain just not bother with ETIAS like they are not bothering now just to allow a few people in and out to spend their meagre pensions????

my 2c and as the paint has dried on my latest artwork that wont sell.. Im off for a cup of tea and to do the next bit......

Re: Spain has not expelled any Brits!
 

I don't know how its enforced but if the border agency suspect you're effectively living in the UK or that you have motives for being there which aren't open to you as a visitor, they can, and do, refuse entry.

Yes, 180 days per visit is more than the EU gives 3rd country citizens. I'm not sure what the relevance of that is, though.