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Spain discusses basic income

Spain discusses basic income

Old Apr 30th 2020, 7:42 pm
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Default Spain discusses basic income

According to newspaper reports, a monthly payment of around €440 ($481) is planned to cover basic needs, making it necessary for recipients to keep looking for work.

That makes a good topic for discussion. Universal basic income? For or against?
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Old Apr 30th 2020, 8:59 pm
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Default Re: Spain discusses basic income

Originally Posted by AleksVirgo View Post
According to newspaper reports, a monthly payment of around €440 ($481) is planned to cover basic needs, making it necessary for recipients to keep looking for work.

That makes a good topic for discussion. Universal basic income? For or against?
Well this is just an unemployment benefit to cover basic needs at the moment and nothing on top. Compared to other EU countries it's a joke really, as Spanish already pay a lot of taxes. The idea of a universal basic income doesn't sound like a good idea unless the system changes. If the landlord knows that the shop assistant paying €500 rent today will get the universal income from tomorrow, just means he or she will be able to pay more for rent. Naturally the rents and other costs will go up, so the ones not working will still be poor.

Last edited by Moses2013; Apr 30th 2020 at 9:01 pm.
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Old May 1st 2020, 9:48 am
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Default Re: Spain discusses basic income

Originally Posted by Moses2013 View Post
Well this is just an unemployment benefit to cover basic needs at the moment and nothing on top. Compared to other EU countries it's a joke really, as Spanish already pay a lot of taxes. The idea of a universal basic income doesn't sound like a good idea unless the system changes. If the landlord knows that the shop assistant paying €500 rent today will get the universal income from tomorrow, just means he or she will be able to pay more for rent. Naturally the rents and other costs will go up, so the ones not working will still be poor.
My exact potential concerns. Those poor folk in Madrid!!! 😱
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Old May 2nd 2020, 8:25 am
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Default Re: Spain discusses basic income

I think its long overdue.
It is unthinkable that a country like Spain has no safety net for unemployed and poor.

Spain fleeces the citizens with huge taxes.
Compare the quota for self employment in Spain, around 270e per month, no matter how little you earn.
inheritance tax is some provinces is brutal.

Prescription costs for workers, around 60% of the actual cost of the drugs.

Not forgetting the purchase taxes that go on a property, taxes are about 7% of the price.

All that money going into the coffers and yet, they let thousands of people live with no income.

There are more things expats may not see, because they are relatively protected under the safety umbrella of their own countries.

Its a wonder there isn't a revolution.

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Old May 3rd 2020, 11:01 pm
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Default Re: Spain discusses basic income

Like any ponzi scheme, the Spanish pension system is very generous to those who got in early. Those who get in later have to pay for the earlier generosity. These days, you will still probably get a decent pension, at least 2000 euros a month, provided you've had a reasonable base salary for at least 20 years, but it used to be a lot more generous. It'll probably be a lot less for the younger generations after this crisis.

The health cover is excellent. Provided you've been paying into the system. If you can't work for some medical reason, the government will cover your salary for up to a year, and most of it for another 6 months. After that you'll probably qualify for some disability allowance, Social security in Spain is considered to be more like a state owned insurance company, that pays out provided you have paid in, rather than an attempt to provide a safety net for everyone.

Unemployment benefit is pretty good, maybe up to 1,400 euros a month if you have dependents. And it lasts for up to 2 years. But again, that's if you've had a proper contract and been paying into the social security system. If not then you are screwed.

Yes, taxes on buying a house are high, but council tax is low. The councils make their money from people selling houses, rather than living in them. Hence all the overbuilding.

That said, I've always thought most European social security systems were run along similar lines. I always felt the UK was a bit of an outlier in trying to provide a safety net for everyone, regardless of what they have paid in.
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Old May 4th 2020, 7:57 am
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Default Re: Spain discusses basic income

Only 7 % of people under 30 have fixed contracts. For many a wage of 1000 Euros is common. Most recieve 60 % wage on their nóminas the rest is black money. The reality is much worse than official figures. 70% of ERTEs only are paying official contributions which means many people just getting half their real salary. Decades of corruption have made tax avoidance and the black economy normal in most peoples lives. Very hard to break that habit now
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Old May 4th 2020, 8:57 am
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Default Re: Spain discusses basic income

The other problem with fixed/indefinido contracts is they discourage movement in the labour market. They make it expensive for companies to make people redundant, so in turn it discourages them from recruiting people. But also once somebody has been in an indefinido contract for a few years, they have accrued so much redundancy it makes less sense to look for another job. People end up trapped in jobs, which further clogs up the labour market. This prevents people from developing their careers by moving jobs and building up a range of skills that companies actually need. Which in turn makes it difficult for companies to find people with the skills they need.

My feeling is that if Spain weakens indefinidos then companies will start handing them out more, and fewer people will be working on the black.
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Old May 5th 2020, 8:24 am
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Default Re: Spain discusses basic income

Originally Posted by chopera View Post
The other problem with fixed/indefinido contracts is they discourage movement in the labour market. They make it expensive for companies to make people redundant, so in turn it discourages them from recruiting people. But also once somebody has been in an indefinido contract for a few years, they have accrued so much redundancy it makes less sense to look for another job. People end up trapped in jobs, which further clogs up the labour market. This prevents people from developing their careers by moving jobs and building up a range of skills that companies actually need. Which in turn makes it difficult for companies to find people with the skills they need.

My feeling is that if Spain weakens indefinidos then companies will start handing them out more, and fewer people will be working on the black.
you have made excellent points about the cost of redundancy.
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Old May 18th 2020, 12:24 pm
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Default Re: Spain discusses basic income

Hi,

I think it is high time this sort of assistance were put in place, around the world, so if it materializes, it will help a lot of people. On the other hand, it's a bit of a joke - you need to have lived in a region for anything up to a minimum of two years and prove it with bills and by being on the census there, so even if you've been in Spain for years and paid income tax on a regular basis, if you moved six months ago... go starve as you're not entitled to any state financial assistance at all unless you have unemployment benefit to fall back on, for a few months.

Funny how income tax is centralized but financial aid is regionalized - good old Spain, bless its ill-thought out and Stalinist, unhelpful burocracy, again.
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Old May 22nd 2020, 4:23 pm
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Default Re: Spain discusses basic income

Originally Posted by DanielSala View Post
.... good old Spain, bless its ill-thought out and Stalinist, unhelpful burocracy, ....
That's an interesting choice of adjective for Spanish bureacracy. Maybe Franco didn't make the trains run on time.

Last edited by Pulaski; May 22nd 2020 at 4:27 pm.
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Old May 22nd 2020, 9:02 pm
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Default Re: Spain discusses basic income

Hola
When I considered the lazy work shy people on benefits in the UK, and look at the Franco system, (here is 5,000 metres - go work it to feed yourself and your family), I believe the UK system is found wanting as it discourages people from getting jobs and taking less money.

A safety net is not supposed to keep you in the style you would like to become accustomed to!

I used to work in benefits and there were many youngsters getting more take home pay than those assessing their claims. We used to say, "Who are the clever ones, them or us"

You will never invent a system that is excellent for all; I think the Spanish system has a better balance than the UK system

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Old May 23rd 2020, 8:36 am
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Default Re: Spain discusses basic income

Originally Posted by Dxf View Post
When I considered the lazy work shy people on benefits in the UK, ...
I used to work in benefits and there were many youngsters getting more take home pay than those assessing their claims.f
Who would have thunk it?
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