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Someone doesn't like the AVE

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Someone doesn't like the AVE

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Old Jul 19th 2012 | 8:14 pm
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Default Re: Someone doesn't like the AVE

on the positive side...
new vehicles mean peoples job will remain for a bit longer
companies will have to put people onto cleaning up after the event and removing to scrap location
security will be improved - both electronic and manned, providing more short term and medium term jobs

on the negative side...
all this will have to be paid for out of the insurance, which will be spread across the premiums of the ordinary man (and woman) in the street.

It will not delay the inevitable of the AVE eventually being finished, although it may force the operator to reconsider the security for the medium term.

.
 
Old Jul 19th 2012 | 8:26 pm
  #17  
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Default Re: Someone doesn't like the AVE

Not the first time it has happened in the area, the last time all the trucks/machinery set alight were constructing the toll road. Probably a Luddite living nearby
 
Old Jul 19th 2012 | 9:18 pm
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Default Re: Someone doesn't like the AVE

Originally Posted by jackytoo
Not the first time it has happened in the area, the last time all the trucks/machinery set alight were constructing the toll road. Probably a Luddite living nearby
It must be hard seeing billions being spent on a train near your door step while people are losing their jobs everywhere, millions of peoples wages are being cut and they have slashed spending on health and education

On that point I agree, health and education before fast trains!
 
Old Jul 19th 2012 | 9:36 pm
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Default Re: Someone doesn't like the AVE

Originally Posted by cricketman
It must be hard seeing billions being spent on a train near your door step while people are losing their jobs everywhere, millions of peoples wages are being cut and they have slashed spending on health and education

On that point I agree, health and education before fast trains!
I'd be inclined to believe jobs which employ people who can pay for health and education would be a more responsible priority.

You can only pay generous benefits to an increasingly declining taxpayer base for so long ...
 
Old Jul 19th 2012 | 9:41 pm
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Default Re: Someone doesn't like the AVE

Originally Posted by amideislas

You can only pay generous benefits to an increasingly declining taxpayer base for so long ...
Since when have benefits in Spain been generous?
 
Old Jul 19th 2012 | 9:53 pm
  #21  
 
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Default Re: Someone doesn't like the AVE

Originally Posted by cricketman
It must be hard seeing billions being spent on a train near your door step while people are losing their jobs everywhere, millions of peoples wages are being cut and they have slashed spending on health and education

On that point I agree, health and education before fast trains!
but when it was started Spain had everything, so there was no problem
its only in the past couple of years that it has come home to roost.

so should they stop building the AVE because there isnt enough money to pay out so much on health & education?
Or should they get rid of the rotten to the core corruption in H&E as in other parts of government and get better value for money ?
 
Old Jul 19th 2012 | 10:11 pm
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Default Re: Someone doesn't like the AVE

Originally Posted by Domino
but when it was started Spain had everything, so there was no problem
its only in the past couple of years that it has come home to roost.

so should they stop building the AVE because there isnt enough money to pay out so much on health & education?
Or should they get rid of the rotten to the core corruption in H&E as in other parts of government and get better value for money ?
Yes of course, but imo construction should stop. Health and eduction are too important, they should always come first

Btw, there hasnt really been cases of corruption in these areas in Spain. Most corruption centres on corruption, tax or "consultancy" projects

The Spanish health service is one of the best in the world. Education, not so much, partly because they invest so little in it, especially on the university side
 
Old Jul 19th 2012 | 10:39 pm
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Default Re: Someone doesn't like the AVE

Originally Posted by cricketman
Since when have benefits in Spain been generous?
Spain has histrically been amongst the most generous in Europe - especially for the public sector. Highest public wages, guaranteed employment, generous pensions, lots of paid holidays, inefficient system requiring double the public labour force of other nations, just about the lowest cost health care costs in Europe (fully subsidised)..

Sounds great, right?

So, let's see, 25% (official) unemployment, 40% in some areas, youth unemployment highest in Europe, most of those unemployed working in the black economy, all legally exempt from taxes...

Sounds pretty generous to me. Even Germans don't get that kind of generosity. Fortunately, their economy doesn't need it, because they don't have the public burdens Spain does.
 
Old Jul 19th 2012 | 10:54 pm
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Default Re: Someone doesn't like the AVE

Originally Posted by amideislas
Sounds pretty generous to me. Even Germans don't get that kind of generosity. Fortunately, their economy doesn't need it, because they don't have the public burdens Spain does.
They're not benefits you loon

And fwiw, public sector wages are way higher in the UK and Germany than in Spain

My mother-in-law used to be head of social services, about a 50k salary here, closer to 150k salary in the UK

You are spouting out rheteric that has no relation to the facts
 
Old Jul 19th 2012 | 11:05 pm
  #25  
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Default Re: Someone doesn't like the AVE

Originally Posted by cricketman
They're not benefits you loon
 
Old Jul 19th 2012 | 11:12 pm
  #26  
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Default Re: Someone doesn't like the AVE

Originally Posted by cricketman
They're not benefits you loon

And fwiw, public sector wages are way higher in the UK and Germany than in Spain

My mother-in-law used to be head of social services, about a 50k salary here, closer to 150k salary in the UK

You are spouting out rheteric that has no relation to the facts
Erm... super-subsidised health care, high wages, guaranteed employment, zillions of days of paid holiday, .. and all that .. aren't benefits?

Well, OK.. Whatever...

here's just one of many analysis which will confirm it, but I'll quote the good bits for you:

Spanish Economy: What's to blame for its problems?

Spending habit

Unfortunately for Spain, a burst housing bubble isn't the biggest problem the country faces.

That's because Spain also experienced another bubble - in its labour markets.

Wages rose far too quickly during the boom years of the last decade. Labour unit costs - a measure of how internationally competitive a country's labour force is - rose 40% relative to levels in Germany during the past decade.

That loss of competitiveness has left Spain - not just the government, but the entire country - with a big overspending problem.

With imports so cheap, and Spanish exports so expensive, the country's economy as a whole found itself spending 10% more than it was earning from the rest of the world in 2007 and 2008.
But back to my original point:

Doesn't it seem logical that the most responsible thing to do is to get people employed before spending on social benefits that not only encourage sustained unemployment, but require tax collections to pay for it? Or shall we maintain Europe's highest unemployment and depend on EU bailouts for the foreseeable future?

Labour reforms and spending on infrastructure (instead of welfare) to get people working again are a very wise first step.

In case you haven't noticed, your idealism is precisely the kind of thinking that's brought us to this point. Somebody needs to quit dreaming and figure out how to get the economy moving again.

Last edited by amideislas; Jul 19th 2012 at 11:28 pm.
 
Old Jul 19th 2012 | 11:17 pm
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Default Re: Someone doesn't like the AVE

Originally Posted by amideislas
Erm... super-subsidised health care, high wages, guaranteed employment, zillions of days of paid holiday, .. and all that .. aren't benefits?

Well, OK.. Whatever...

here's just one of many analysis which will confirm it, but I'll quote the good bits for you:

Spanish Economy: What's to blame for its problems?
Benefits, are what is paid to the disabled the unemployed, pensioners on low pensions etc, not wages or holiday pay ie a safety net, and in Spain they are not generous......

wages and holiday pay are not benefits.
 
Old Jul 19th 2012 | 11:20 pm
  #28  
 
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Default Re: Someone doesn't like the AVE

why does everyone trot out the comparison with Germany ??

Germany is an industrial/agro economy whilst
Spain is an agro/industrial economy

if you want to compare (although it is really hard to have true comparison) then try comparing with Portugal or Italy
But NOT Germany
 
Old Jul 19th 2012 | 11:34 pm
  #29  
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Default Re: Someone doesn't like the AVE

Originally Posted by cricketman
Since when have benefits in Spain been generous?
Some people think ALL benefits are generous!
 
Old Jul 19th 2012 | 11:52 pm
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Default Re: Someone doesn't like the AVE

Originally Posted by amideislas

Doesn't it seem logical that the most responsible thing to do is to get people employed before spending on social benefits that not only encourage sustained unemployment, but require tax collections to pay for it?
.
No, because while you wait for the economy to improve and the number of jobs to increase then people will die, who shouldnt have

And a whole generation will miss out on an education

You have your piorities completely wrong

Anyway, it is not a case of a good health system OR growing the economy. That isnt the choice. You sound like you've been brainwashed by evil neo-liberal free market devil worshippers!
 


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