Tlaloc

Hi people
my partner & I are looking at buying property & land ( around 2-10 acres -sorry not sure what that is in metric) with the aim of being somewhat self sufficient, ie fruit, veg & chickens maybe a pig !

Have found some suitable places near Cartagena-rural properties with their own water supply and power system, with land planted with almonds & young olive trees plus the possibility of a small 'guest room' to rent .
We are both in our mid fifty's so no pension & would have no other assets/income in the UK once we moved .

I know the bottom has dropped out of the Spanish almond market- but i'm guessing there could be some income derived from them

Any advice would be great -even if it's ' You must be mad '
Thanks

Fredbargate

Agreed

Rosemary

Hi and a warm welcome to the Spanish forum on BE. I am the Concierge for the Spanish section and thought that you might find it helpful to know that the moderators for the Spanish forums are Fred James and Bevs, moderators are there to ensure that the site runs smoothly within the rules of BE.

Problems and complaints should always be addressed to a moderator who will look into the matter and deal with it efficiently and fairly. Our members who post in the Spain Forums are usually friendly and helpful with a wealth of knowledge of the issues of living in Spain. I hope that you enjoy your time participating in the forums.

Please let me know if you need any further help.

Rosemary

Neptuno

Have you made any arrangements for health care cover?
Do you have any existing conditions which insurers may not cover?
May be expensive!
Can you satisfy the residency requirements, which have changed and require you to have a certain income/ savings, and proof of health care cover.
Would you have enough money to tide you over for at least a year, or will you be dependent on income from the land?
You may find that those posting here will burst your bubble, but it's better to know now!

Retired in Euskadi

If you don't know what 2-10 acres is in hectares, then you'd better wise-up quickly. Once you move to Spain, everything is in metric. There are almost 2.5acres to a hectare. A hectare = 10,000sq meters.
That's for starters.
If you want a pig, get two at least. Animals hate being alone. They plough up the ground something terrible, but they eat almost anything.
I'll happily give you any help/advice re "farming"; will leave the rest to those more experienced in dealing with 'ex-pats', since my wife is Basque & we don't encounter the same problems as do British couples where both are British.

Domino

other than agreeing with Fredbargate on this, it is what you want to do and you should take every opportunity to do what you want.

. As retired in euzkadi says - you need to know much more about land, sizes, the crop and how much you can get off each hectare. Almonds are similar to olives in the way they are planted and cultivated and you may only get 75 to 120 to the acre.
http://coststudies.ucdavis.edu/files...vs08sprink.pdf
will give you further details on harvesting and care, including watering (but it is a California study although should help).

you really need to look at how much it is going to cost you to buy enough land with existing almond trees to make it worthwhile. They are essentially a once a year crop so once you have the crop in and sold that is all you will have for the rest of the year.
You must also consider that it will be 3-5 years before any new plantings are up and ready for cropping.
The other thing to consider is why someone is selling. If it is a big organisation then there most definitely be an ulterior motive and they will want top dollar for the hectare.

as to becoming self sufficient, well that is a hard one. most farmers are not, they need other farmers to provide things they don't grow - which is why becoming part of a co-operative is important. Unless you are really large, in which case it wouldn't matter.

such an undertaking will mean having enough cash in hand to last for at least 3 or more years - base that on min €25k per annum plus your personal costs such as taxations and medical covers, which will probably have to be private.

sorry if it appears to be bad news. but consider why someone is willing to sell a "viable almond tree operation" if with only a little bit of effort they can make it work themselves.
yes the bottom has dropped out of the almond prices, they are really low, as are olives (and the Spanish are teed off with the Italians who are getting double the price).

keep posting and asking more questions but don't think it will get much better.

kr
`

olivefarmer

Well I can provide you with advice about olivefarming if you decide following general advice to proceed.Generally:-

You need to work out your standing monthly costs
Electric
rates
healthcare provision
vehicle costs
food
drink
dentistry
treats like a drink out in a bar or a meal
flights home for family emergencies (parents falling and breaking a hip for example)
ETC

Then you need to work out what sort of yield a farm will give you. Whilst ruins might be two a cent now, fincas/parcels of land with productive trees have a real value. Depending on age,location, type of land a hectare of trees producing 2000 euros worth of olives might cost 80k euros. Irrigated could improve the yield but water is a big issue here. The vendor would already have done it if there was water, proper water.

You need to see the vendors receipts from the olive/almond co op for at least the last three years. Trees crop in cycles so don't rely just on one year- that could have been the bumper year! Then you need to factor in chemicals, fertilisers, tools and equipment. You could go organic route and "not bother" but you get a much reduced crop and you get weeds six foot high.

I don't know about almonds but olives are similar to milk in the UK. The housewives are perceived to want the olive oil at the lowest price. The factory gate price has dropped year on year, as has the price of oil.

Those receipts will give you an idea of income. As you would be earning income you will also have to pay the equivalent of national insurance. This is around 280 euros a month for you and covers your dependants and counts towards your state pension scenario( see separate posts/FAQs). You will also be liable for income tax. You can find the rates in frequently asked questions in the expat forums. You might be able to qualify for farm rates national insurance but there are hoops to jump through.

You might be able to rent out a room or accommodation BUT plenty of others are trying to do the same in a market where the hoteliers need business and thus rent a roomers have hoops to jump through to get permissions. You will also have to declare that income for taxes.

Now you also need to factor in the unexpected. packs of feral or semi feral dogs killing ALL your free ranging poultry in just a few moments for example.

Pigs are a good idea and if you show you are prepared to live the life of a farmer which is an eight day a week job, you will gain the respect of your neighbours who will help out, show you the ropes and so on. You will need to learn the language as especially in rural areas folk don't speak English (except the kids).

farming is hard work.

My advice in one word is research. You need to be sure before leaping as you will not be able to easily sell if it isn't for you.

Water. If they say there is plenty of water, test it. Look at the meter. No meter? It probably isn't a legal well. I have limited experience of solar but it isn't all plain sailing. You have to limit the appliances you have on simultaneoulsy, you have to factor in battery replacement. On the plus side LED technology has moved on well these last few years.

There that is my potted answer.

Fredbargate

A very good one

Retired in Euskadi

Totally agree. Excellent advice.
By the way, Tlacoc, try working out a simple 'gross margin' for your enterprise. You can almost do it on the back of a fag packet. Whilst it doesn't indicate profit, it does give an overall idea of income & expenditure.
Suggest using the "John Nix annual farm management pocketbook" for ideas, even tho' it's UK based..

BEVS

Hi there and welcome to this Spain forum.

Some quality responses already I see.

Shame you're mid 50's as I would have suggested looking to New Zealand from the self-sufficient angle.

Any reason why you can't do this in the UK & so are looking to Spain.

Not after your personals. Just interested.

Tlaloc

Hi Bevs - lots of reasons, property/land prices & climate being the main ones, plus a love of Spain !

Hi Olivefarmer
Thanks for the info, yes research is important - which is why I posted on here, my partner has had 9 yrs of doing this in Greece & I have had some farm experience , so we both know it can be hard, I think having diverse incomes is best rather than relying on 'just one thing '
Not sure what you mean by a 'meter on the well' , assuming that the water company charges for the water , even though there is no mains connection ? also is this the same with a deposito/ resovoir?

Thank you all for the advice & info,