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British Expats (https://britishexpats.com/forum/)
-   Spain (https://britishexpats.com/forum/spain-75/)
-   -   Santander - Kent County Council (https://britishexpats.com/forum/spain-75/santander-kent-county-council-758547/)

Fredbargate May 19th 2012 10:03 pm
Re: Santander - Kent County Council
 
Originally Posted by jimenato (Post 10071109)
Thanks to all who quote beasty boy's posts - I never read the original bold type version.
Agreed Si

bigglesworth May 20th 2012 1:19 am
Re: Santander - Kent County Council
 
Originally Posted by The Beast (Post 10071936)
The collapse of the Euro has all that you have stated to thank for helping in its impending downfall....

The Initial problem that kick started the meltdown was in 2007 when BNP Paribas ceased all its activity in three hedge funds that specialized in mortgage debt in the US.
The money lenders in banks throughout the world soon realised that trillions upon trillions of dollars in less then secure derivatives were making the rounds whose worth was considerably less than previous thought/hoped/planned ( make your own mind up ).
Nobody in the banking system had a clue to how large these losses and debts could be to each other and consequently all trust between them collapsed literally overnight....They stopped doing what they are supposed to do with each other....Trade!
Everything you have said took place after the destruct button was pressed.
When Lehmans was allowed to crash in 2008, this was the start of the rot...Countries around the world were forced to prop up international institutions which were thought to be risky.....Credit to the private sector began drying up which speeded up a downfall in economies and business confidence....The mess that is left is a consequential result of a sub prime mortgage plan/scam/cock-up....
Beast, what you describe are consequences, and mostly unrelated to the imminent disintegration of the Euro (absent substantial reform).
Clearly the causes lie further back in time.
The low interest rate policy of the 1990s and 2000s were a public policy reaction to enormous macroeconomic crises - of which LTCM was a symptom. The disintegration of Russia, the crash in the Far East, German reunification, and the Argentine default, to name but a few.
The public policy response to all those was consistently to lower interest rates below the norm
As we all know, if you price something too low, people will buy it, and ultimately you will go bankrupt. Money is no exception, except insofar as the wholesale pricing of it is decided by Governments, and the retail is a consequence of that and decided by banks and their customers.
There is no single finger of blame here. Governments should have raised interest rates years earlier. Banks should have checked the suitability of their products more carefully. And customers should have recognised that there is no such thing as a free lunch.

The Beast May 20th 2012 1:49 am
Re: Santander - Kent County Council
 
Originally Posted by bigglesworth (Post 10072203)
Beast, what you describe are consequences, and mostly unrelated to the imminent disintegration of the Euro (absent substantial reform).
Clearly the causes lie further back in time.
The low interest rate policy of the 1990s and 2000s were a public policy reaction to enormous macroeconomic crises - of which LTCM was a symptom. The disintegration of Russia, the crash in the Far East, German reunification, and the Argentine default, to name but a few.
The public policy response to all those was consistently to lower interest rates below the norm
As we all know, if you price something too low, people will buy it, and ultimately you will go bankrupt. Money is no exception, except insofar as the wholesale pricing of it is decided by Governments, and the retail is a consequence of that and decided by banks and their customers.
There is no single finger of blame here. Governments should have raised interest rates years earlier. Banks should have checked the suitability of their products more carefully. And customers should have recognised that there is no such thing as a free lunch.
Fair enough Mr Biggles...If you relate the low interest rate policy of the previous decade and the fall of the Berlin wall, Spains unpaid loan and the mismanagement of International banks at a fragile time, then we can all connect somehow or another most fiscal moves since the second world war......The point I am empowering is that the sub prime sell off was the DIRECT cause of the domino effect that ensured a globally encompassing panic that made financial institutions wary of lending in the liberal manner they had done which in turn led to a downturn in markets, lower consumer confidence in the private sector, which in turn led to nations making decisions to counter a world wide panic......The decisions taken did not work. The Euros decline was a crash waiting to happen since its introduction.....A political ideal that was built from the roof down....No foundation!

Re the highlighted comments....Exactly what happened in the US with sub prime mortgages......I think we actually agree?

The Beast May 20th 2012 1:52 am
Re: Santander - Kent County Council
 
Originally Posted by jimenato
Thanks to all who quote beasty boy's posts - I never read the original bold type version.

Originally Posted by Fredbargate (Post 10071944)
Agreed Si
If I offend you with font size and colour, I apologise..

jimenato May 20th 2012 6:33 am
Re: Santander - Kent County Council
 
Originally Posted by The Beast (Post 10072251)
Originally Posted by jimenato
Thanks to all who quote beasty boy's posts - I never read the original bold type version.



If I offend you with font size and colour, I apologise..
Did somebody say something?:unsure:

steviedeluxe May 20th 2012 7:58 am
Re: Santander - Kent County Council
 
Another view on Spain's banks - this time from the Economist! They differentiate between the main commercial banks like Santander and BBVA, and the troubled cajas

http://www.economist.com/node/21554747

Spanish banks embraced modernisation relatively late. Having been trapped in a bubble for many years during the fascist dictatorship, once they were freed they were able to leapfrog rivals in more developed markets. The most important innovation was the rapid and almost universal adoption by bank customers of electronic bill payments. Spain’s banks have a huge advantage in not having to process cheques or handle transactions in their branches. They have invested diligently in installing the latest and most effective computer systems, making their banks enviably efficient.

Dick Dasterdly May 20th 2012 8:40 am
Re: Santander - Kent County Council
 
Originally Posted by steviedeluxe (Post 10072595)
Another view on Spain's banks - this time from the Economist! They differentiate between the main commercial banks like Santander and BBVA, and the troubled cajas

http://www.economist.com/node/21554747
Big pinch of salt required there,methinks.

steviedeluxe May 20th 2012 8:50 am
Re: Santander - Kent County Council
 
Originally Posted by Dick Dasterdly (Post 10072648)
Big pinch of salt required there,methinks.
Why? Because it's written by a British financial journal? Or do you dispute the facts or descriptions they publish?

The comments are actually worth reading on this type of article - you get arguments from both points of view.

jackytoo May 20th 2012 8:57 am
Re: Santander - Kent County Council
 
Originally Posted by Dick Dasterdly (Post 10072648)
Big pinch of salt required there,methinks.
As someone who has dealt with a few spanish banks I agree...more than a pinch though:rofl:

agoreira May 20th 2012 9:27 am
Re: Santander - Kent County Council
 
Originally Posted by Dick Dasterdly (Post 10072648)
Big pinch of salt required there,methinks.
Agree, the banks, good as they are, are borrowing money from the ECB in ever increasing amounts. Mind you, nobody else will lend them money, without the ECB, they'd go under.
http://www.rte.ie/news/2012/0514/spa...rovisions.html

Dick Dasterdly May 20th 2012 9:33 am
Re: Santander - Kent County Council
 
Originally Posted by steviedeluxe (Post 10072664)
Why? Because it's written by a British financial journal? Or do you dispute the facts or descriptions they publish?

The comments are actually worth reading on this type of article - you get arguments from both points of view.
Just for starters it's not true that cheques are no longer used as I use them myself with one of the major banks.

I don't see in any respect that they're any better than most other W.European banks and in some cases lagging behind.

Stinks of vested interests or possible sweetener to the publishing journal.

I won't go into the various drawbacks of the Spanish banks as its been pretty well discussed on other threads.

steviedeluxe May 20th 2012 7:57 pm
Re: Santander - Kent County Council
 
Originally Posted by Dick Dasterdly (Post 10072724)
Just for starters it's not true that cheques are no longer used as I use them myself with one of the major banks.

I don't see in any respect that they're any better than most other W.European banks and in some cases lagging behind.

Stinks of vested interests or possible sweetener to the publishing journal.

I won't go into the various drawbacks of the Spanish banks as its been pretty well discussed on other threads.
Unless we've worked in the various banks concerned, it's hard to make an informed opinion on efficiency. Unless anyone in the know can update us, we have to rely on reports like the following - otherwise it's just nationalist prejudice.

http://finance.fortune.cnn.com/2012/...-emilio-botin/

What's behind Botín's success? His strategy is to acquire prominent foreign banks that have a minimum 10% market share and that are in some sort of financial straits. He buys the bank at a bargain-basement price, installs his own management team, and then gets a stock market listing for an independent subsidiary. While his European rivals were expanding into such risky areas as investment banking and unpronounceable derivatives, Botín steered clear of those businesses and did his banking the old-fashioned way: bread-and-butter consumer and business loans to high-quality risks. At the same time, costs at Santander (sahn-tahn-DARE) account for only 40¢ for every dollar of revenue, while German competitor Deutsche Bank (DB) spends 65¢, and super-efficient HSBC (HBC) spends 55¢. Key to cost savings has been Santander's state-of-the-art computer system, dubbed Parthenon, which has slashed back-office expenses at all its subsidiaries. At its Abbey National subsidiary in Britain, for example, back-office staff went from 70% of the payroll to 30%.

Dick Dasterdly May 20th 2012 8:22 pm
Re: Santander - Kent County Council
 
Originally Posted by steviedeluxe (Post 10073353)
Unless we've worked in the various banks concerned, it's hard to make an informed opinion on efficiency. Unless anyone in the know can update us, we have to rely on reports like the following - otherwise it's just nationalist prejudice.

http://finance.fortune.cnn.com/2012/...-emilio-botin/
Hmm, I suppose those so called efficiency cuts, partly explain why it's repeatedly been rated as the UKs worst bank with the crapiest service.

They even had to start offering free handouts to new customers to boost the numbers a little and stop it slipping down the pan.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/money/2011...ins-worst-bank


http://www.moneywise.co.uk/banking-s...e-love-to-hate

Worst bank in the UK last year !

Could find enough similar links to keep you occupied till the cows come home.
Something to brag about ?

Dick Dasterdly May 20th 2012 8:35 pm
Re: Santander - Kent County Council
 
Originally Posted by jimenato (Post 10072489)
Did somebody say something?:unsure:
Well I keep asking myself why he needs to do it and the only logical explanation I come up with is that the lad has some sort of massive inferiority complex and is desperate to get himself noticed.

Obviously not bright enough to understand that most posters either don't like it or simply ignore his posts entirely.

steviedeluxe May 20th 2012 9:15 pm
Re: Santander - Kent County Council
 
Originally Posted by Dick Dasterdly (Post 10073387)
Hmm, I suppose those so called efficiency cuts, partly explain why it's repeatedly been rated as the UKs worst bank with the crapiest service.

They even had to start offering free handouts to new customers to boost the numbers a little and stop it slipping down the pan.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/money/2011...ins-worst-bank


http://www.moneywise.co.uk/banking-s...e-love-to-hate

Worst bank in the UK last year !

Could find enough similar links to keep you occupied till the cows come home.
Something to brag about ?
Apart from the fact you're confusing efficiency with customer service (not the same thing at all, unfortunately), in fact you'll find that a more recent survey puts Barclays as the worst bank (your links are in the first 6 months of 2011, so not sure how you can claim worst "last year"), and that Santander has improved dramatically recently:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/p...A-figures.html

The FSA's figures showed that Barclays received 251,563 complaints, compared with 181,907 at Lloyds TSB, 168,888 for Santander and 147,109 against NatWest.

Santander, which has had a reputation for giving poor customer service, had the best turnaround rate on dealing with complaints. It closed 98pc of cases within eight weeks. This compared with turnaround rates of 77pc at Royal Bank of Scotland, 77pc at Lloyds TSB, 86pc at NatWest, 89pc at Barclays and 90pc at HSBC.
When you realise that Santander had to consolidate various UK banks, it makes the Barclays situation look even worse.


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