jackytoo

The market may not be dead but the fact is that Spanish property sales have been well down the last 2 months. Sales were down about 15% in August.

agoreira

The Spanish can see it and joke about "ghost urbanisations"!
http://www.eljueves.es/2013/11/01/co..._fantasma.html

Domino

amazing how those who have left the country for their own reasons/benefit still keep trawling the net to find "bad news" against the country


they don't seem so assiduous in finding similar stories about the UK to regale those who are in Spain

jackytoo

None of you are short of stuff from the UK but it seems to me most of you know little about what goes off in Spain. I read the spanish newspaper every day online. Is Spanish news not interesting to you, don't you want to know what's happening in your adopted country...or is it you don't want other people to know.

If I started a thread here with a link to UK paper you would be the first to cry off topic"

Domino

I read the Ideal every day - in Spanish, does that make me a saint or a sinner


The difference is that most people look at the news (online or paper) to read things they are interested in - you only look for derogatory comments, or comments you can turn around against Spain

very

Dick Dasterdly

Good quality flats that haven't been built ?
Has everybody got a crystal ball over there ?
I saw enough problems with buying off-plan in Spain long before the crisis to know I wouldn't even put a cent down on a dog kennel till I'd seen it with my own eyes.

chopera

It's a cooperativa so you get a say in the build quality. Downside is that so does everyone else. They are not without their risks of course, but most new builds by reputable builders that I know of have turned out well. Our first flat was off plan, and not only was it well built, we had excellent after sales service as well - any problems were resolved quickly. Problems tend to arise if you are buying in new areas where you can put your money down but then find the coucil places the development of the area on hold because of some environmental issue, or doesn't have the money to provide the infrastructure. I know of people who have had their money tied up for years because of things like that. Brownfield development is a safer bet. Either way, the flats I'm referring to have "sold" - or rather they have all been reserved:

http://cooperativaeai310.wordpress.com/

la mancha

Sold or reserved? Or are you going on hearsay? From what I understand each buyer has to reserve a property for 1000 euros. Times 220 properties, and the promoters are 220,000 to the good to start with, without a brick being laid. Then I read the building will take 24 months to complete. And at an estimated cost of FROM 309,000 each. Honestly, in Spain today, would you pay up-front 1000 euros for an off-plan property that you don’t even know the final price of and with completion in two years? Come on…

HBG

Literally thousands of expats are currently involved in court cases against Spanish property developers and banks stretching back over the past ten years or so. To list all the complaints would take too long, but one recent local one focuses the mind on what was a very common practise.

The English couple bought off plan and paid the total sum when the house was completed. Unbeknown to them the developer had remortgaged their house and many others with a local bank.

The developer has declared Spanish 'bankruptcy' and the local bank has been taken over by a larger bank, who bought it for one Euro.

The larger bank is now repossessing those properties and the owners who have paid the developer in full are trying to stop them. Most have given up and returned home, no longer able to pay the legal costs of their action.

I wouldn't pay up front for anything in Spain, it is just too dodgy. When I tried to fill up with petrol the other day, a large notice said I had to pay first. I drove to the next filling station.

chopera

The company managing the project say they have all been reserved:

http://www.tugrupo.es/detalle_promoc...omocion=712022

In order to reserve a property you needed to put 30% down. That's for buying the land up front - apparently the banks won't give finance for land purchases these days, so it's up to the cooperativa to cough up the money. After that they can get finance for the construction.

I initially showed an interest in this one, and went along to some of the meetings. However I didn't have the €100k+ cash required to buy in. Others obviously did though. I should add that this is only 220 flats, and I'm still a bit skeptical about Santander being able to repeat this trick on such a scale.

jackytoo

This happened to a couple we knew over 20 years ago. They had to buy their house twice to own it. Although they got it cheaper the second time

My Spanish Grandfather always said 2 rules in Spain...never buy off-plan. never buy in a boom. That was 30 years ago and that advice is still good.

Dick Dasterdly

Amen.
Always has been, always will be.

There have been a few occasions when an off-plan punter got lucky and the property was completed on sked and had increased in value, but to my mind there is no way the many risks involved are a worthwhile gamble.

I'd sooner trust my balls to a Barracuda.

sam54140

Spain real estate market:
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-1...tly-exagerated
mmhh..

and in the US: misleading data from...
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-1...ousing-now-can
stagnation of sales and some areas will see prices falling again after "some" rise in 2012 2013

Also a lot of sales are cash sales... some(...) by real estate speculators only. not very healthy and further evidence
the "middle class" have trouble getting mortages, the opposite would be healthier or a more signficiant change.

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/homebu...114530565.html
XHB is a good proxy and peaked mid 2013. downtrend seems forming since.
Spanish market can't be looked at in a closed-room and depends also on what is the trend accross the Atlantic Ocean.

steviedeluxe

Time will tell if it was a blip or not, but prices of used homes rose in October
http://www.idealista.com/news/archiv...-tu-zona-tabla

jackytoo

Welcome back Stevie. I missed your flying pig posts Spanish economics that. Property not selling so put up the price. Just seems to be asking prices.