Rugby Thread
Sep 13th 2007 | 8:26 pm
#121
Thread Starter
Welsh Ambassador to Spain
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 1,741
Re: Rugby Thread
It's not that I'm moaning NOW - I've ALWAYS said it shouldn't happen. Even the 2003 RWC was originally a 'joint' affair with NZ, until that row blew up.
The initiative should come from the IRB, not the other way round. All they have to do is say 'all future tournaments must be hosted entirely by one nation', and only allow 'bids' on that basis, and the problem will be solved.
And by the way - what is the justification for having the Fiji v Canada match in Cardiff - on a Sunday lunchtime?? How many people will attend that in your view? I reckon less than 10,000.
And apart from their 'big' games (v Oz and NZ respectively), 'home' matches for Wales (v Japan) and Scotland (v Romania) are clearly designed to make it easier for them to reach the QFs at the expense of 'smaller' rugby nations. It stinks, frankly.........
And why give Cardiff a quarter-final that, because of the way the pools are drawn up, cannot possibly feature Wales?
The initiative should come from the IRB, not the other way round. All they have to do is say 'all future tournaments must be hosted entirely by one nation', and only allow 'bids' on that basis, and the problem will be solved.
And by the way - what is the justification for having the Fiji v Canada match in Cardiff - on a Sunday lunchtime?? How many people will attend that in your view? I reckon less than 10,000.
And apart from their 'big' games (v Oz and NZ respectively), 'home' matches for Wales (v Japan) and Scotland (v Romania) are clearly designed to make it easier for them to reach the QFs at the expense of 'smaller' rugby nations. It stinks, frankly.........
And why give Cardiff a quarter-final that, because of the way the pools are drawn up, cannot possibly feature Wales?
I refer you to my previous answer. It was about securing votes. FFR "bought" the WRU & SRU votes by giving them games. Originally, Wales wanted ALL their pool games based in Cardiff and a home quarter final (I believe the Scots wanted the same) Ã la RWC '91 & RWC '99 but the FFR flatly refused and the compromise was reached that Wales would be given four of the 48 games, of which Wales could only participate in two with the proviso that the quarter final could not feature Wales. Edinburgh only got two games - both featuring Scotland.
As for the Fiji v Canada, it would exactly be a crowd puller wherever it was staged. If it had been in France it would have been in one of the smaller stadiums like St-Etienne, Bordeaux or Toulouse, all with stadiums of around 35,000. Here they get the chance to go out in one of Europe's premier stadiums, in a World Cup game. Also, the Welsh Rugby public are a generous lot and there will be many who won't be able to get tickets for the Australia game the previous day but would like to be in Cardiff for the atmosphere that weekend. I suspect many will take the opportunity to go to the Fiji-Canada game.
If we limit it to one host nation it would become impractical for many nations - Wales, for example, would be unable to host it alone as they don't have the stadia. Similarly, Scotland would have a problem but not to the same degree. Even New Zealand are having to build or rebuild their stadiums to bring them up to spec for 2011 - I believe the rule is that they must have two stadia with 50,000 capacity. England could do it because of the football stadia, but Ireland would struggle. Of the big 10 nations, only England, Australia, South Africa, France, Argentina and Italy (both using football stadia) could host it right this second. NZ is upgrading to join that list in time for 2011.
I'd personally like to see a Spain & Portugal joint bid for 2015 or an Italy bid.
Maybe a Japan & Pacific Islands bid could be considered for 2019 or a Canada or USA bid.
Sep 13th 2007 | 9:12 pm
#122
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 13,553
Re: Rugby Thread
I refer you to my previous answer. It was about securing votes. FFR "bought" the WRU & SRU votes by giving them games. Originally, Wales wanted ALL their pool games based in Cardiff and a home quarter final (I believe the Scots wanted the same) Ã la RWC '91 & RWC '99 but the FFR flatly refused and the compromise was reached that Wales would be given four of the 48 games, of which Wales could only participate in two with the proviso that the quarter final could not feature Wales. Edinburgh only got two games - both featuring Scotland.
As for the Fiji v Canada, it would exactly be a crowd puller wherever it was staged. If it had been in France it would have been in one of the smaller stadiums like St-Etienne, Bordeaux or Toulouse, all with stadiums of around 35,000. Here they get the chance to go out in one of Europe's premier stadiums, in a World Cup game. Also, the Welsh Rugby public are a generous lot and there will be many who won't be able to get tickets for the Australia game the previous day but would like to be in Cardiff for the atmosphere that weekend. I suspect many will take the opportunity to go to the Fiji-Canada game.
If we limit it to one host nation it would become impractical for many nations - Wales, for example, would be unable to host it alone as they don't have the stadia. Similarly, Scotland would have a problem but not to the same degree. Even New Zealand are having to build or rebuild their stadiums to bring them up to spec for 2011 - I believe the rule is that they must have two stadia with 50,000 capacity. England could do it because of the football stadia, but Ireland would struggle. Of the big 10 nations, only England, Australia, South Africa, France, Argentina and Italy (both using football stadia) could host it right this second. NZ is upgrading to join that list in time for 2011.
I'd personally like to see a Spain & Portugal joint bid for 2015 or an Italy bid.
Maybe a Japan & Pacific Islands bid could be considered for 2019 or a Canada or USA bid.
As for the Fiji v Canada, it would exactly be a crowd puller wherever it was staged. If it had been in France it would have been in one of the smaller stadiums like St-Etienne, Bordeaux or Toulouse, all with stadiums of around 35,000. Here they get the chance to go out in one of Europe's premier stadiums, in a World Cup game. Also, the Welsh Rugby public are a generous lot and there will be many who won't be able to get tickets for the Australia game the previous day but would like to be in Cardiff for the atmosphere that weekend. I suspect many will take the opportunity to go to the Fiji-Canada game.
If we limit it to one host nation it would become impractical for many nations - Wales, for example, would be unable to host it alone as they don't have the stadia. Similarly, Scotland would have a problem but not to the same degree. Even New Zealand are having to build or rebuild their stadiums to bring them up to spec for 2011 - I believe the rule is that they must have two stadia with 50,000 capacity. England could do it because of the football stadia, but Ireland would struggle. Of the big 10 nations, only England, Australia, South Africa, France, Argentina and Italy (both using football stadia) could host it right this second. NZ is upgrading to join that list in time for 2011.
I'd personally like to see a Spain & Portugal joint bid for 2015 or an Italy bid.
Maybe a Japan & Pacific Islands bid could be considered for 2019 or a Canada or USA bid.
Hence my suggestion - sole nations only to bid to host in future, by order of the IRB.
Japan should have got 2011 (they could easily do it), so I hope they get 2015 but the usual politics will still be in force I have no doubt. By then I suppose it will be Europe's 'turn' again....
And it's not just stadia - how many hotel rooms are there in the main NZ locations where the matches will be played in 2011? (I'll give you a clue...... it's a much smaller number than you might imagine). How many restaurant covers? Japan would have been a wonderful choice - bringing the sport to a wider (and newer) audience, with superb stadiums, wonderful public transport, plenty of hotels and restaurants (although not the cheapest on the planet, admittedly).
In 1987, NZ was OK because nobody went to it (it was like a minor sevens competition, numbers-of-visiting-fans-wise), but 2011? The place will collapse.
Rambling whingeing rant over........ now I'm going to watch my team lose to the Boks tonight......... so be gentle with me in the morning......
Sep 13th 2007 | 9:36 pm
#123
Thread Starter
Welsh Ambassador to Spain
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 1,741
Re: Rugby Thread
You've confirmed my feelings with your use of the term "bought". I agree - that's exactly what happened.
Hence my suggestion - sole nations only to bid to host in future, by order of the IRB.
Japan should have got 2011 (they could easily do it), so I hope they get 2015 but the usual politics will still be in force I have no doubt. By then I suppose it will be Europe's 'turn' again....
And it's not just stadia - how many hotel rooms are there in the main NZ locations where the matches will be played in 2011? (I'll give you a clue...... it's a much smaller number than you might imagine). How many restaurant covers? Japan would have been a wonderful choice - bringing the sport to a wider (and newer) audience, with superb stadiums, wonderful public transport, plenty of hotels and restaurants (although not the cheapest on the planet, admittedly).
In 1987, NZ was OK because nobody went to it (it was like a minor sevens competition, numbers-of-visiting-fans-wise), but 2011? The place will collapse.
Rambling whingeing rant over........ now I'm going to watch my team lose to the Boks tonight......... so be gentle with me in the morning......
Hence my suggestion - sole nations only to bid to host in future, by order of the IRB.
Japan should have got 2011 (they could easily do it), so I hope they get 2015 but the usual politics will still be in force I have no doubt. By then I suppose it will be Europe's 'turn' again....
And it's not just stadia - how many hotel rooms are there in the main NZ locations where the matches will be played in 2011? (I'll give you a clue...... it's a much smaller number than you might imagine). How many restaurant covers? Japan would have been a wonderful choice - bringing the sport to a wider (and newer) audience, with superb stadiums, wonderful public transport, plenty of hotels and restaurants (although not the cheapest on the planet, admittedly).
In 1987, NZ was OK because nobody went to it (it was like a minor sevens competition, numbers-of-visiting-fans-wise), but 2011? The place will collapse.
Rambling whingeing rant over........ now I'm going to watch my team lose to the Boks tonight......... so be gentle with me in the morning......
I doubt it will go to Japan in 2015 as the TV people and Sponsors won't want two back-to-back world cups in that general area of the world - I know Japan and NZ are thousands of miles apart but there's only 3 hours difference in time zones between the two. It will be in Europe, SA or even Canada or States in 2015. I don't see it going to Japan until 2019 at least where they'll face comptetion from Argentina I would have thought
Last edited by Fortaleza; Sep 13th 2007 at 9:40 pm.
Sep 13th 2007 | 11:34 pm
#124
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 3,254
Re: Rugby Thread
Actually, we Welsh would prefer you to win tonight so that we don't have to win tomorrow against the Aussies - much rather an England Quarter than a SA one
I doubt it will go to Japan in 2015 as the TV people and Sponsors won't want two back-to-back world cups in that general area of the world - I know Japan and NZ are thousands of miles apart but there's only 3 hours difference in time zones between the two. It will be in Europe, SA or even Canada or States in 2015. I don't see it going to Japan until 2019 at least where they'll face comptetion from Argentina I would have thought
I doubt it will go to Japan in 2015 as the TV people and Sponsors won't want two back-to-back world cups in that general area of the world - I know Japan and NZ are thousands of miles apart but there's only 3 hours difference in time zones between the two. It will be in Europe, SA or even Canada or States in 2015. I don't see it going to Japan until 2019 at least where they'll face comptetion from Argentina I would have thought
Sep 13th 2007 | 11:43 pm
#125
RETIRED ;-))
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 20,156
From: Benalmadena Pueblo,Spain
Sep 14th 2007 | 11:38 am
#126
Straw Man.
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 46,302
From: That, there, that's not my post count... nothing to see here, move along.
Sep 14th 2007 | 11:40 am
#127
Thread Starter
Welsh Ambassador to Spain
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 1,741
Sep 14th 2007 | 11:56 am
#128
Straw Man.
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 46,302
From: That, there, that's not my post count... nothing to see here, move along.
Re: Rugby Thread
Oi Fortaleza...........???!!!
Does my score of 40 not count? Or is it that I am a 'troll from the Middle East board who is so far up his own behind' and am therefore disqualified?
And when do I get an apology from Rugbyprat for doubting my stats?
(PS - From my side, I apologise for calling him a Kiwi - apparently he isn't, and I know how upsetting it can be to be mistaken for a NZer - now perhaps he can explain how ANYONE who ISN'T a Kiwi can support NZ!!!!!??????)
Does my score of 40 not count? Or is it that I am a 'troll from the Middle East board who is so far up his own behind' and am therefore disqualified?
And when do I get an apology from Rugbyprat for doubting my stats?
(PS - From my side, I apologise for calling him a Kiwi - apparently he isn't, and I know how upsetting it can be to be mistaken for a NZer - now perhaps he can explain how ANYONE who ISN'T a Kiwi can support NZ!!!!!??????)
I don't need to explain myself to you or anybody else, so why don't you stop PM'ing me and leave me the fu(k alone!?
Sep 14th 2007 | 12:02 pm
#129
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 5,133
Re: Rugby Thread
You don't have to be a local to admire a team.
Look at Man U ... ah sorry, wrong sport ... back to the cock fight ...
Look at Man U ... ah sorry, wrong sport ... back to the cock fight ...
Sep 14th 2007 | 8:38 pm
#131
Straw Man.
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 46,302
From: That, there, that's not my post count... nothing to see here, move along.
Re: Rugby Thread
My personal feelings aside, Robinson is a real shame.
