expatnevergoingback

Here's a cheery article from the CB News Almeria

http://www.cbnalmeria.com/


I read with interest Richard Torné's article about the debacle that is El Fas. Some good friends bought a house there one year ago in 2007, two years after the mayor claimed he became aware that the properties were illegal. Why were these houses allowed to be constructed and then sold? The mayor claims he did not have policemen available, does he not realise how stupid this statement makes him look, a housing estate does not materialise over night. Soon after my friends moved to El Fas we visited them and were invited to a party thrown by Pedro Llamas Garcia at the house of Karim Smit and Daniel Poetsema. It was coming up to the elections and Sr. Llamas wanted to get all the Brit votes on board. After cooking a wonderful paella, handing out pens, lighters and hats, through his interpreter, Daniel Poetsema, the mayor assured everybody that their homes would be legalised. A hollow promise.

My friends unfortunately bought the house through Southern Spain Consultants and against advice used the lawyers recommended by them. The lawyers stated that they would not let my friend buy an illegal house. In a little community like Cantoria everybody must have known that these properties were illegal, the estate agent, the developer, the builder (all of whom appear to be interchangeable), the lawyers, the notary and the mayor. Where does this leave my friends? The criminal case may take a year or two to come to court, only then can my friends commence a civil case to claim compensation from the developers should their home be demolished. This case may take four or five years to be heard the way the legal system in Spain works. My friends, like a lot of expats and indeed other Northern Europeans, have sunk virtually everything they own to relocate here, demolish their home and they are left with nothing or at the very least a slim chance of getting some compensation in six or seven years. What are they supposed to do in the meantime?

The point is that we are all advised when we start the purchasing process here in Spain to get an independent lawyer. Surely, if a lawyer has any interest in the sale of the property, it is a conflict of interest, and it should be declared to the purchaser, so they can decide whether to employ him or not. If that declaration is not made in writing and things go wrong then the governing body should strike off that lawyer and force him to pay full compensation to the client.

Socialist party (PSOE) councillor in Cantoria, Manuel Pedrosa criticised expats for „allowing themselves to be hoodwinked by Mr Poetsema“. When you go to a lawyer you expect that lawyer to protect your interests against unscrupulous developers, builders and estate agents, if he does not then, what has been the point of employing him? Sr. Pedrosa went on to say „everyone knew what he (Mr Poetsema) was claiming to be“. If that was the case how come the lawyers, notary, estate agent and mayor claimed they didn't know or act on this knowledge. If you are fresh out from the UK looking to buy a house, and you don't speak much Spanish, where can you go to protect yourself and ask relevant questions other than your lawyer - the local bars? I don't think so!
Spain and particularly the regional governments have benefited to the tune of many billions of euros from the influx of northern Europeans. When people put themselves in the hands of 'professionals' to ensure their smooth transition into Spain and it all goes wrong then the authorities should not - must not - turn their backs on the people they welcomed with open arms. The systems in Spain are woefully lacking for the individual when corporate corruption takes place. I believe it is the case in Spain that even if an individual has employed a lawyer, that individual is still considered, by the judges, responsible for the consequences. The judiciary should be made to realise that by paying a lawyer thousands of euros then that responsibility passes to the lawyer who 'knows the law'.

The world's current financial woes will not last forever and one day people will again start buying abroad, unless Spain puts its house in order, and soon, it will be other countries those purchasers will look to. The prospect of buying in Spain and losing everything will stay in peoples' minds.

Peter J Brown

bil

"and against advice used the lawyers recommended by them. "

Says it all really.

Anywhere you go, there is the risk of being ripped off. All you can do is to try your utmost to get it right. Even that won't be 100% safe, but a lot better that loving somewhere so much that you lose all critical ability.

jackytoo

All this talk of "independant" Lawyers, er shouldn't all Lawyers be independant. About time the lawmakers in this country got their act together.

bil

No, it means that if you use the same lawyer as the guy that you are buying the house from, and there is a problem, one of you is going to get shafted.

pete_l

I think you'll find that in a small community, there is no such thing as an
independent lawyer. Simply from a practical point of view, you are making one
transaction through that (or any) lawyer. However, they have to make a living
from it - which means getting business from the local population. If they were
to cross someone important in the town/village, they'd find their business dried
up PDQ. They have too many vested interests to give you impartial advice,
when it would hurt their "bigger" clients, or their reputation. In small towns, not
just in Spain either, grudges and suspicions can be carried for years or decades
so given the choice they will always favour the people they live with and are
related to.

Mitzyboy

I hired a lawyer in a different location to the builder. Its more likely that there will be a connection if you hire one nearby to the builder.

gallerie9

We did the same the lawyer in a different town. On the advice of the estate agent.

whitelinen

Quite frankly I am fed up with reading this type of doom mongering.............why when a million (maybe more) sales to foreigners have gone through without a hitch should anyone be influenced by the tiny percentage who quite frankly allowed themselves to be ripped off because they obviously threw all caution to the wind.

Does anyone know the actual numbers of sales to foreigners in Spain for the past 20 years and the actual number who have fallen victim of a con?

Given the number of people who for instance reply to requests for money to get hold of lottery prizes in lotteries they have never entered I expect the percentages will be similar proving that the people who were conned have only themselves to blame.

valenciatim

Maybe they have changed their mind now? The post was nearly a year ago!!!!!

missile

Probably he has "goneback"

bil

Interesting point. I too would be fascinated to know just what % of Brits have been ripped off. Anyone got any idea?

Doom and gloom stories sell papers and TV shows. I have to admit that some of the stories demonstrate a naivety that is positively terrifying, but having said that, we too took a risk in buying when we did. The risk was small, but we were very unlucky, and a positive sh*tstorm enveloped us, to the extent that had we not managed to sell our house in the UK when we did, we would have lost everything.

Suenspain

Hi all .... first post on this particular forum so "hello"!!

I noticed this one because I work for a Law firm - and I agree that we tend to only hear about the "rip offs" the "illegal properties" and those who have lost the life savings etc - and OF COURSE these need looking at, and people need to remain aware of how to approach property buying, and yes they should always use a Lawyer. BUT I agree with some of the other posters comments - out of the thousands and thousands of property transactions in recent years - the vast majority of them in Spain have been successful and straight forward.
Using a Lawyer recommended by a developer or agent is ALWAYS a direct line to oblivion or lost money - of course you should take care and ultimately make your own choices, and as for acting on behalf of both the buyer and the seller - this again is not necessarily going to lead to a collapse in the deal, or someone being "ripped off". On the occasion we have been asked to represent both parties - we allocate an individual Lawyers for each file - and any reputable, ethical, Law firm would then be able to act in the best interests of both clients - no conflict.

Anyway thats me of my high horse! sorry - it was sort of work related for me ... hope to post on some more fun topics in the future !

Sue

Rotor

Very true ,never use a local lawyer as he may well be the developers cousin!! Better to use one from at least 50 kms away, sure its an inconvenience but he`s more likely to work for you than the other side

missile

I know quite a few ex pats living under threat of demolition for illegal build and others who may suffer land grab. All of them bought cheap in the knowledge that there was a "risk".

I would suggest that if you are sensible there is little more risk than in the UK and you are far safer buying in Spain than any of the "new property hot spots" as advocated on TV.

Rotor

Agreed , I cant belive people buy in Turkey and Morocco ,they really are asking for trouble ,I doubt Romania/Hungary/Croatia etc are any better ,if you are looking for a secure investment property the U.K is still one of the safest ,in so much as if you hold the deeds you really do own it ,here in Spain it seems anything is possible ,buying a cortijo seems to be the safest in Spain so long as its a registered dwelling , urbanisations can be very risky as weve all seen,If in doubt rent for three months in the area you like and find out off the locals , Spanish and expat whats going on ,to many of us rush in and cant wait to give our money away