Pronunciation
 

Whenever I try to pronounce words like

Hijo/hija/trabajar/and others similar I cant ever get it correct. People look at me odd and I can see they are trying to compute what i am trying to say.

Anybody got any tips?

Re: Pronunciation
 

Is it because you cant do the j or because your vowels arent precise enough?

The j is pretty easy, just like a h but with an added gutteral sound from the bottom of the throat

Most the problems English people have with being understood is because they dont pronounce the 5 vowel sounds precisely enough (as discussed before)

Re: Pronunciation
 

A bit of both really, "J" I find difficult and I do practice my vowel sounds, but I think you are probably right, they aren't precise enough. When I try to pronounce 'hijo' it sounds like a braying donkey.

Re: Pronunciation
 

I have a west country accent so many of the vowels sound similar but I find that any words with an R or RR in them I have to be far more precise with otherwise I get the blank look.

Rosemary

Re: Pronunciation
 

actually that's not far off!!!!


hijo - eehoh

hija - eehah

trabajar - tra-ba-har

if you can do the gutteral h sound all the better - but otherwise keep it like an English J - for sure not a k sound:eek:

vowels - try the following

a as in apple

e as in eg

i as in igloo

o as in orange

u as in soon

not perfect, but as near as dammit - & remember that they always make the same sound

Re: Pronunciation
 

Good advice, but I wouldnt suggest pronouncing the Spanish j like an English j. Like an English h, then sure. Otherwise you will sound like an Argentinean making the ll sound which will be doubly confusing :rofl:

Re: Pronunciation
 

Thanks Lynxxa and Cricketman

PS Cricketman, I definitely would not be mistaken for any kind of native speaker, my accent is just so bad.:lol:

One Spanish friend (actually I've only got one) said when we were discussing the subjunctive that I really shouldn't bother about it because my accent is so bad they can't tell when I am using it or not. It's quite difficult to learn and practice when you have no exposure to it. I try listening to some TV and radio but I cannot keep up with pace.


The particular words were "puedes/puedas

Re: Pronunciation
 

Yes I wouldnt worry about the subjunctive for a good while yet. Concentrate on the past and present tenses instead. There are 3 different past tenses which are very different and important that you recognise them even if you dont use them correctly to start with

Re: Pronunciation
 

Thanks cricketman, I'm quite good at reading Spanish and not too bad at writing (if I have lots of time) and I also use an on-line verb conjugator test thingy to practice but speaking Oh boy! How did you learn? were you fluent before you moved to Spain?
PS There are a couple of lads from south London who work in a Spanish owned bar in the village I visit and It is amazing how fantastic their Spanish is now compared to a couple of years ago. They chat all night long to the locals yet when I ask them anything they can never explain it.

Re: Pronunciation
 

Yes I was more or less fluent, but my wife is Spanish so I had no excuses and have only ever spoken to her family in Spanish (even though most of them speak English), so the long holidays there were good practice!

Spanish is a very logical language. How you learn it depends on what you like to do. Personally in my uni summer holiday I read a book of Spanish grammar from front to back twice - and have never opened it again. Then it was just a case of practice, practice and practice.

I had the rule that in Spain I should only talk to people in Spanish and then put myself in positions to use it. But of course having a Spanish girlfriend/wife makes all this much easier

Re: Pronunciation
 

:rofl::eek:

dammit - that's what I meant:o - like an English H as in my examples

Re: Pronunciation
 

you're right - if he's still struggling with basic pronunciation he's a very long way off even thinking about the subjunctive

tbh even after 8 years I still hate thinking about it.............sometimes it comes naturally.............but if I have to think about I don't bother

Re: Pronunciation
 

so when asking for Coca Cola why do I get a blank look ?

Re: Pronunciation
 

That used to be a problem for me as well. I used to have problems when I said words that I would usually say in English like brand names or people's names

Its because the vowels need to come out machine gun like. In English we tend to pronounce very round "o"s and then just say "urgh" for the other vowels, so a Spaniard may not understand

English = Coe-ker-coe-ler
Spanish = Cocacola

Spanish is pronounced exactly as spelt as long as you know the (easy) rules for consonents and vowels

Re: Pronunciation
 

the other day I asked for 1 cafe con leche 1 coca-cola sin hielo, got 2 coffees.
only when I pointed to the Coca-Cola on the large umbrellas over all the tables did it sink in. Think she just wasnt listening cos she brought the coca cola in a bottle with a glass of ice.

so when you say Recogidas as Rekoheedas you are being Spanish and saying it exactly as its said.

I will learn spanish, I will learn spanish, I will....

Re: Pronunciation
 

:(coca Cola sin yellow;)

Re: Pronunciation
 

Yes there are some very basic rules which are always true

I'm always surprised when classes dont stress pronunciation more. It is very important and actually very easy

I know someone whos been learning Spanish for 10 years and cant make themselves understood because of pronunciation. Such a shame as a good teacher could have solved the problem forever in a couple of hours

Re: Pronunciation
 

Or for that matter, pronounce upon stress.

Correct emphasis makes or breaks a sentance.

Re: Pronunciation
 

the cola part also sounds like collar as in dog.

I agree though, you need to use it, I do say to people to learn the vowles, it does make a huge difference and dont rush when you speak, you will get there, the main thing is you want to learn, not everyone does.

Good luck keep practising:thumbsup:

Re: Pronunciation
 

Took me a long time to clock on, but when you listen to Spanish customers they rarely say "cafe" (well in Madrid at any rates). It's un "con leche" and "dos cortados".
What I would do with your order is stress "also", eg "un con leche, y TAMBIEN un Coca-cola..." I'm not guaranteeing it will work though, especially in Andalucia where you're based!

Re: Pronunciation
 

Los Andaluces are buggers for shedding vowels like a dog sheds fleas.

Porfa for please, sinpa for sin pagar, pa'mi instead of para mi, and so on.

Re: Pronunciation
 

It was much the same in the Canaries, I was told it was S.American Spanish, but whatever it was I still can't get out of the habit myself, having spent so much time over there.

Re: Pronunciation
 

I've spoken with many Spanish on skype and for me, by far the most difficult to understand was a university mature student from Lanzarote. He was really well educated, both parents were doctors, so no country hick, but for me, a very strong accent. By contrast, a guy from Asturias, very easy to understand.

Re: Pronunciation
 

oh I am quite happy to give it a try, I do go to certain places who now know me and actually help (despite all those here who say they won't) but I refuse to restrict it to those places and will barge in anywhere I see I want to buy anything.

as to dropping the cafe, it took me a long time to realise that Buena is a more relaxed version of Buenos Dias, which is common here.

that is the problem with language schools and the Linguaphone and Michel Thomas CD's, they teach you Madrid standard, out of the book, words and sentences, in the same way as I learnt Paris book standard French at school.
That isnt how its said now, and I think some of these courses, including the evening classes the BH went to, stick rigidly to the book without any allowances for the local mixed with the more relaxed style of talking

Re: Pronunciation
 

It is a problem when you learn Castillian, only to find that where you live is very dialectic.

Re: Pronunciation
 

Sometimes I find myself saying ""Buenas" or dropping the s's like the Andalucians do

My OH tells me off saying I sound ridiculous :rofl: But Asturian Spanish is very standard and easy to understand as agorreira says. Well, as long as they dont mix in the Asturian language

Re: Pronunciation
 

I have found it is generally simply "buenas" whatever time of the day. Even though you'd think "buenos días" would become "buenos", they seem to use "buenas" whether it's day or night. And in some places, they throw in the ocassional "buen día" just to confuse you.:)

Re: Pronunciation
 

It is indeed, but at least if you learn to "speak it proper", they'll at least understand you, no matter where you are. You then have the problem of understanding them, but given time you'll fall into their bad linguistic habits. :)
We had a guy came to a Spanish meeting here, and had lived in Spain for years, and was really fluent, but in such an incredibly broad accent it was impossible for us to understand him most of the time. His daughter married into a gypsy family, that'll give you an idea of where his accent came from. I guess he was totally at home in their company, but almost unintelligible out of it. When it came to reading, writing, conjugating Spanish, he was totally lost, didn't have a clue. Best to learn it correctly in the beginning, the bad habits can come later.:(

Re: Pronunciation
 

I agree about learning the best way and the bad habits will comel later.

I know a Spanish guy who we call "Dizzy", due to to all the "spinning" that goes on in his life.

He has a bad habit, when he tells a story, it goes like this.

"she turned around and said blah, blah blah,

"so I turned around and said blah

Then "she turned around again and said blah, blah blah,

-then John turned around and said blah, blah blah,

So I turned around and said "Sod off"
:rofl::rofl::rofl:

Re: Pronunciation
 

Coca Cola? Try and say 'Seven Up'. It's not 'siete oop' but 'Se-ben'. Turns out, they only had Sprite anyway (not 'espritay' but 'es-prai').
Brand names in general, pronounce them as a Spaniard would!

Re: Pronunciation
 

why.?,
$billions has been spent on the brand, the writing, the name and the said words. Can I help it if a Spaniard cannot understand a simple double barrelled word that is known by that name from Aalborg to Zamboanga.!
its almost as well known as Manchester United.:eek:

Re: Pronunciation
 

To be fair most Brits seem to have problems pronouncing "San Miguel" or "plaza" correctly.

Re: Pronunciation
 

I never had a problem with San Miguel in Hong Kong,,,;)

Coca-Cola is an international, no boundaries word.

Re: Pronunciation
 

the "j" is usually pronounced like the "ch" in Loch as in Loch Lomond. Listen to Diana Speed or other broadcasters reading the UK shipping forecasts on internet radio/satellite.
She's brilliant. The Loch sound is never voiced. That's roughly your "j".
I cannot for the life of me roll my r's.

Hope it helps.

Re: Pronunciation
 

So is "Zara", yet by your argument all Brits pronounce it wrong!

You are in Spain, you should learn how to say Coca Cola so Spanish people understand you. The responsibility lies with you

Re: Pronunciation
 

funnily enough I was getting my group in the bar to practice rrrrrrrs this morning & an old Spanish gent on the next table interrupted the class & dictated this to me - he says it's really good practice for those rrrrrrrrrrrrrrs!

Había un perro debajo de un carro y vino otro perro y le mordió el rabo. Pobre perrito como lloraba sin su rabito.

Re: Pronunciation
 

I like

El perro de San Roque no tiene rabo, porque Ramon Ramirez ha robado.

Re: Pronunciation
 

Hows your Euskera?

Last time I was in the Basque country I had to speak English because my friend said we wouldnt get served at the bar speaking in Castellano :D

Re: Pronunciation
 

almost...

"El perro de San Roque no tiene rabo, porque Ramon Ramirez LO ha robado" :)

Re: Pronunciation
 

you have a point, it is not like pronouced like Zara Philips....;)