PaulLes

On my last visit to Spain i bought a town house that needs modernising to rent out, as a UK builder i wanted to run a few ideas past you guys. All the internal walls need the plaster removing and renewing, we are using a dot and dab plasterboard system and metal MF ceiling and board systems, (sorry this might not mean much to some) most of these products i can source in Spain, Can i buy board finish plaster there.
I was wondering if anybody had rewired using UK twin and earth cabling and trip panel, this would be ideal for the project as we do not nead to chase walls or ceilings. All fittings will be Euro and are compatable with UK cable.
I will be applying for the relavent licences for the exterior works, windows etc.
Does any forum member know if we need a licence to rewire.

We will also be using a saniflow water system to relocate a bathroom to below soil stack level, which will take WC shower and hand basin waste. which we will aquire here, but again possibly saniflo has Spanish distributers.

Any feedback from anyone who has gone down a similar route would be appreciated .

Paul,

P.S weathers good here but its not the same

jdr

Hi
most of the gyproc is drywall finished as UK plaster is hard to find, but I have seen it advertised near me once.
They dont like anyone not using the Spanish electrickery, and I think you will need it signed over by someone with a licence.
I have never seen Saniflow for sale here, but I must admit I haven`t gone out looking for it.

Solarwhizz

You can buy Saniflo's I have seen them in the Ferri Ferreteria in Villena Alicante province,
The electrical systems are quite different here, Twin and earth is frowned upon, and ring mains are not authorised. rest is pretty much as UK, if you are not yet connected to the electricity supply, you will need a Boletin, and that will be very hard to come by if not done by a Spanish registered electrician, However you can get the work inspected by a qualified Spanish electrical Guy who will issue a boletin, but expect to pay 1000 to 1500 eu irrespective of the level of work done,
For all works you will need either a Small works permit or general works permit, level and cost and technical difficulty is usually down to the local architechs office at the Ayunamiento, sometimes you will need complete drawing and quotes etc and pay a % of cost as a tax, and other places will just tell you to get on with make you pay a nominal charge and give you the permit. Beware working without a permit and then falling foul of the locals could lead to a denouncia, which in turn will lead to a visit from the Guardia, work stopped until permit obtained and perhaps a hefty fine!! Its always worthwhile talking to the local Alcalde, and neighbours before you start, but generally a permit is a must!!

bfg69bug

no. no. no.

a bulatin will only cost 300€ TOPS. the work can be done by ANYONE who knows the right way. a full rewire to new spec comes in at around 5000€ for a two bedroom house including all parts. ring main is not acceptable. each air conditioning unit MUST have its own breaker (16A). the cooker MUST have its own breaker and 6mm cable to it. the washing machine MUST have its own breaker. the tumble drier...the bathroom must be seperate and have its own breaker. there can only be 10 sockets on one 16A breaker. you can have the lights from 3 rooms on one breaker. the cable from the meter must be 0% halogen 10mm. every breaker MUST be double pole. the meter box MUST have a metal door on the front of a recessed hole where the meter box is.

theres ALOT of rules that you need to adhere to

can you tell that i work with a spark ?

Solarwhizz

[QUOTE=bfg69bug]no. no. no.

a bulatin will only cost 300€ TOPS. the work can be done by ANYONE who knows the right way. a full rewire to new spec comes in at around 5000€ for a two bedroom house including all parts. ring main is not acceptable. each air conditioning unit MUST have its own breaker (16A). the cooker MUST have its own breaker and 6mm cable to it. the washing machine MUST have its own breaker. the tumble drier...the bathroom must be seperate and have its own breaker. there can only be 10 sockets on one 16A breaker. you can have the lights from 3 rooms on one breaker. the cable from the meter must be 0% halogen 10mm. every breaker MUST be double pole. the meter box MUST have a metal door on the front of a recessed hole where the meter box is.

theres ALOT of rules that you need to adhere to

As I said pretty much as the UK,
However on the Boletin's if you do the work yourself, or use and unreg UK Sparky, are you saying you have a Spanish reg electrician who will give you boletin's for 300€

Where do you live and can I have his phone number if in North Murcia.Alicante province.

Hillybilly

Our Spanish registered electrician did an inspection and issued a boletin for us on our own installed wiring for €90 (townhouse, inland Sevilla province, 2004) so we could be reconnected. €1000-€1500 for a boletin???!!! Must be a 25 bed mansion!!!!!

PaulLes

The house i'm renovating is in Blanca Murcia and already has electric and a meter, all the wiring at present is surface mounted round cable (like extension cable) and incredibly the hole house runs of one cable in a massive spider web, with light switches on route as both cables are potentially live it seams a little mad as apposed to UK system neutral to common, common to switch via one cable and returned to neutral side of light via the other. The meter is internal and fairly new with a circuit breaker board.

After posting i did do some research and it became apparent that a 'Ring main' typically British are frowned upon. I have had a rough cost for rewiring dependent on fittings of 1000-1500 euros.

I am familiar with the UK system, i thought it might be easier to run UK cabling of the correct rating for cooker shower sockets lights etc even though the spanish system is not pole dependant (you can plug in a plug either way) with the plasterboard system we are using rather than conduit. Do all spanish sparkies use conduit to run cable?

I am using this system instead of yasso to obtain straight walls and ceilings and to overcome some damp (plaster off, expanding metal on, screw fixed, waterproof render, 20mm air gap gypliner wall system board and skim)

One last question is it easy to get the potencia increased on your electricity supply, my 5 bed finca is on the lowest tariff a oil filled heater, kettle and washing machine in winter and it trips, real pain, especially when we move over with our UK appliances.

Solarwhizz

Your Sparky is no good to me as I am up in Murcia,, but typically it is 1500€, ( methinks there is a bit of Bandito, here??!!), I have tried thru a couple so far and they all say the same price!!.

As for the wiring, the logic on no ring main is that if you drop a wire on a ring main the MCB protectionis typically 30A ( in UK) and wired in 2.5mm2 you then have the potential to draw 30A off one cable at 2.5mm whereas on the ring main you have a split feed effectively doubling your capacity of cable within the 30A protection. So the Spanish Logic of Star ( in UK we call it radial) ccts the cable is always protected by the correct trip value!!

The logic on plug in either way is also not a bad Idea as all appliances now should be on double pole switches, , whereas in the UK the switching used to be single pole (IE live only), therefore if you switched off and the plug was in the wrong way there was potential for the unit to still be "Live". with double pole switching that is not possible, (I except in fault conditions).

I dont think you'll find both cables as live, but the Spanish do have a habit to mix their colours on installations IE you can suddenly find the live going to Black or Grey!!.. But if you look at it carefully modern installations all tend to be of a good standard with consistency of cabling and colours. IE the tend to wire in Blue as Neutral, and each plug and fixed appliance switched wire the same throughout the Disboard and the installation.

There are two things to be wary of with the sockets here though, it is still possible to buy sockets with no earth capability, so on non double insulated appliances you have the potential to have no earth!!!

Secondly if you use a Spanish to UK adaptor, and the plug can go in any way, there is the possibilty that a UK equipment wired neutral could be connected to the live, (and if the unit is old enough) It may only have a single pole switch so effectively the unit could still be live and operate, say under a fault condition (assuming earth trip not installed at mains, which is possible here in very old installations).

All cables in Spain on modern installations are run in Plastic or Doble Capa tubing as the standard.

bfg69bug

brown 2.5 is live, blue 2.5 neutral, yellow and green 2.5 as earth. black 1.5 is live TO a LIGHT, light grey 1.5 is the live to a switch, dark grey 1.5 is the return from the switch.

that is industry standard. every breaker MUST be double pole.

a good earth IS a part of the bullatin, so even tho non earthed sockets are avaliable they do NOT conform.

wiring HAS to be in tubing, and legally HAS to be INDIVIDUAL strands in order to pass the bullatin.

and give my spanish contact´s number out ? god no i cant do that and no, he is in alhaurin and will not travel. he is so busy we have to book him 3 weeks in advance.

Solarwhizz

Yep agree that these are the standard, but what I am saying is over the last few years there seems to have been a bit of free for all. it is only in the last year or two that the local authorities have been getting the resources and the will to start controlling planning and building standards properly. IE in Abanilla, effectively zero controls,, in Jumilla, no permit no work, start work without permit hefty fine and stopped, they have now got a building inspector who checks the quality and standards on new constructions and will randomly check on reforms too, unheard of two years ago!! Gotta be better for all of us though, as will help protect against some of the horror stories I read/hear about!!

go'on givvuss the No!!

paulven

If you check RBT Texto oficial (Reglamento electrotecnico para baja tension)
and look up ITC-BT-25 , you will find that in a normal domestic installation,
the maximum number of lighting points per 10a circuit is 30, no number of rooms specified.
The maximum number of general use 16a socket outlets per circuit is 20.
The washing machine, dishwasher and water heater can go on the same circuit, provided it is 20a wired in 4mm cable and outlets individually fused at 16a
Any socket outlets in the bathroom go on the same circuit as general use sockets in the kitchen and the total number on the circuit must not be more than 6.
Hope this helps.

PaulLes

Thats really helpfull and concise information thanks.

PaulLes

Thanks for your info, this site is a mine of collective information.

bfg69bug

really ? so even my spanish bollotin person is out of date then ? or prefers to put less on the breakers i suppose.. those are the absolute maximums presumably ?

well we use normal sockets, so i guess its different rules?

olivia

Hi,
My husband is an Electrician here in the U.K. Can you tell us where he can get hold of a copy of the Spanish Wiring Regulations?