Pensions (plural)
 

If I have a full UK state pension and I work in Spain for a few years as well do I get to claim my full UK pension when I retire AND the smaller Spanish state pension? Apologies if this has been asked before

thanks

Re: Pensions (plural)
 

Minimum requirement to get any Spanish pension is working 15 years, so you can only claim your full UK pension, provided you haven't been contracted out. The only circumstance when working in Spain less than 15 years can help is if you are short of contribution for full UK pension, when your Spanish contribution is added to your UK record.

Re: Pensions (plural)
 

If you have contributed enough in the UK to qualify for the state pension, the 15 year rule in Spain does not apply. I have a friend who has a UK pension and three other EU pensions, never having spent more than 5 years in any of those other countries.

What you say about any years in Spain adding to your UK qualiying years is correct, but it also works the other way round.

Re: Pensions (plural)
 

Actually the OP can ask Spain for a Spanish pension
​​​​​Spain requires 37 years UK 35 so if you have 35 in UK you are 2 short of Spanish pension. So you could get more years of Spanish one. However whether it is more than UK 35 year is a different matter.

Re: Pensions (plural)
 

The EU has its own rules regarding pensions. These rules are quite good, allowing you to work in various EU countries (even for short periods) and then add your contributions together, regardless of where they were earned, to form your eventual total pension receipts. These rules also still apply to the UK since Brexit.
As you are living in Spain, the Spanish Social Security Authority must apply to the UK for your pension when the time comes (try and be about 3 months ahead of the due date).
This is the approach whichever EU country you are living in. (using your Social Security Authority in country of residence).
They have an automated system specifically for this, but DWP is still in the Age of Dinosaurs and works with 2 incompatible computer systems, meaning delays basically.
Depending on your age your pension will then be paid into the account of your choice and when you qualify for the Spanish Pension, likewise (based on your contributions).
Each country has its own minimum contribution period but this rule allows you to add all your worked years together and not lose out.


See: https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizen...d/index_en.htm

Re: Pensions (plural)
 

No you don't need to involve Spain at all if you don't want. Spain allows you to keep contributing after retirement age whereas UK doesn't. So in UK you will have UK pension before Spanish one. That means you get UK separately if you want. You only involve Spain if you think the Spanish system will pay you more- but that is complicated as Spain doesn't n work on completed years but days and size of contributions.

Re: Pensions (plural)
 

I suggest you use the link I provided.

Re: Pensions (plural)
 

I use the UK Future Pension advice - as they are the ones who actually authorise payment. They simply pay the UK pension when you reach the required age set by UK. It has nothing to do with Spain unless you contact INSS and request using your Spanish years. If you have more than 15 years in Spain you then contact Spain and get that pension separate

Re: Pensions (plural)
 

Contracting out does not affect the basic state pension, only any potential SERPS element.

Re: Pensions (plural)
 

Yes, only for those under the old pension (basic state pension for those who were born before 6th April 1951 for man and 6th April 1953 for woman). It does in my case. I get less than the full new state pension (by about £5 a week) because I have been contracted out for several years.

Re: Pensions (plural)
 

The effect of contracting out seems to vary. I was contracted out, but my current state pension is greater than the max quoted for the full state pension. I also get another 200 from the contracted out extra pension that was added wnen I contracted out. I have no idea why I get more than the max and I am not going to argue about it!

Re: Pensions (plural)
 

Another thing to bear in mind is that the state that pays your pension is also responsible for your health care in retirement and it is usually the country in which you last worked and presumably living at the time of your retirement
I agree with Calman on this.The whole system was set up in the EU to incentivise freedom of movement for workers so that employers could take advantage of skilled employees from other countries and workers could move from a low wage economy to a higher wage economy without jepordising their financial position in retirement

Re: Pensions (plural)
 

My reduction from the UK single tier pension is around £45 per week due to being contracted out.. Basically I get the basic state pension aka pension pre 2016 change .

Re: Pensions (plural)
 

I was contracted out for quite a few years and my forecast with 42 years of continuous contributions and self employed for around 20 will see me with around 60 quid a week less than the full pension.
I decided to retire in 2020 and move here and take my small private pension and live off savings. Its my money so the kids will just get the bills I leave behind.

Two of my friends from school (we are all 62) have stopped work the past couple of years because there is no point paying in for around 50 years when you only need 35 to get a full pension...
Both of them took forced retirement and now live off small private pensions and benefits and are better off than if they were in work.

Re: Pensions (plural)
 

It would have been more than £20 a week reduction in state pension, if I had not made additional contribution in Class 2 NIC for several years until state retirement age (65 in my case). I paid in about £150 a year in Class 2 for about 3 years (£450 in total), in order to get extra £15 a week in pension or £780 in a year, for life.

Re: Pensions (plural)
 

Worth doing in your case. I had 43 years contributions. I am lucky enough to have government pensions that more than make up the difference. It is what it is. Being contracted out made no difference to state pension pre 2016 other than It meant you didn't get serps.

Re: Pensions (plural)
 

Contracting out affects any state UK pension taken after 2016. This can drastically reduce your UK pension if contracted out for a long period.

I took early retirement in 2012 and I've just reached state pension age (66). I've had to add 6 years voluntary contributions to get the full £11,500 pension.

https://www.gov.uk/contracted-out

Re: Pensions (plural)
 

Very true and the way it works although we are lucky enough to benefit from the triple lock the gap between pre 2016 and those with opted out state pension widens compared to those on the post 2016 single tier pension. The annoying thing as I see it is the reduction for those opted out was because unbeknown to many they paid slightly less NI I believe 1.5 or 2% less? There was no mention of this fact reducing the single tier pension until they actually introduced it. Yet in the past 12 months they have reduced all NI contributions by 4% with no reduction on state pension. I accept it is what it is and yes being opted out means one benefits from a private pension but it does seem a bit odd that those opted out saved less than half the NI reduction currently being paid.

Re: Pensions (plural)
 

I’m unclear about claiming UK and Spanish pensions. I will have a full UK pension, having paid voluntary contributions, and around 24 years here in Spain. I assume I should get both based on those contributions and the rules in each country?

Elsewhere I’ve seen suggestions, hopefully unfounded, that you can’t pay into two systems, or that voluntary UK contributions, as they overlap, will reduce or cancel out compulsory Spanish contributions, or that Spain will I can’t have their pension as I already have a UK pension?! Can anyone reassure me?

Also, what happens with different retirement ages? For me it’s 66 and 2 months for UK and 10 month later here in Spain… So does that mean I will have to wait to claim both together in Spain and lose those 10 months of the UK pension, or can I claim the UK separately first, even though I will be working another 10months in Spain?

Thanks

Re: Pensions (plural)
 

Please see my post #5 above. Details are given and a nice explanation of how your pensions are supposed to work when you have worked in more than one country.

Your UK pension should kick in when it is supposed to regardless of whether you are still working in Spain. It is a separate system and if you are lucky, DWP will pay it on time without you having to hang around too long or trying to chase it up. (They are quite poor at responding).

Good luck.

Re: Pensions (plural)
 

You need to go to INSS not use this forum ( although the advice here is generally fairly accurate). I say this because you will find that your Spanish pension prediction will assume that you have only worked in Spain and that in order to do anything about your Spanish pension you will need to tell them you have worked abroad. Now whether this is because they then add you UK pension to the Spanish years to give you a full Spanish pension ( and you therefore lose your UK pension) or it is simply to allow you that option if you want I don't know- however it is part of the form you sign when you are about to get your Spanish pension so you have to answer the question. My gut feeling is that it is simply to allow you to do that and that in reality you get both pensions completely separately ( or else UK folk working in Spain as automnios are paying large amounts of money to fund other folks pensions and I am sure that would have come to light a long time ago).

Re: Pensions (plural)
 

I think that link is not going to help the poster as it only uses examples of people who have no complete pensions in solely one country. In other words it only looks at examples where folk combine pensions. The poster already has( or will have ) complete UK pension but wants to know what happens to the 24 years in Spain as you obviously can't add that to UK pension or alternatively it would have been a waste to pay voluntary contributions in UK if they only need 13 years from UK to get Spanish full pension.

Re: Pensions (plural)
 

Just because you have a 'complete' pension in one country does not necessarily exclude you from drawing a pension in another.
You have worked for it and contributed to the system, it's just that the UK still has this curious "top-up" system that allows you to boost your pension.
You will be taxed on it anyway so it is to Spain's benefit.
Officially and according to the EU ruling you must apply for the UK pension through the Spanish Social Insurance system anyway.

See: https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizen...d/index_en.htm

Re: Pensions (plural)
 

I get about two thirds of the full state pension, but fulfilled the necessary number of years.
I have not been able to get details of the reduction from government offices, but they did say it was due to contracting out.
I can only think of about 10 years max. when I would have been contracted out, so losing a third of the pension seems like it may be too much.
Are there any simple tools that could be used for working out what the reduction due to contracting out should be?

Re: Pensions (plural)
 

I do not begin to understand the situation regarding contracted out pensions. I was contracted out for several years. As part of that deal contributions were made to an alternative pension. I retired with a full contribution record (including some voluntary payments as I retired early). That all sounds pretty straightforward, however, I receive a pension from the DWP which is nearly 10% greater than the maximum full pension amount of 221/wk. On top of that the additional pension contributed to during the contracted out period is an additional 50/wk.

I have no idea how the state pension figures were arrived at, but I am certainly happy with the situation and I have no intention to query it!

Re: Pensions (plural)
 

If you have the HMRC App you can check which years you have full contributions and the years you were contacted out.

Re: Pensions (plural)
 

Yes that is true if you have a full pension you can take that and if you have enough minimum years in another country you can take that minimum separately. However if you want them separately you apply separately to each country - you won't get separate ones if you apply in Spain and tick box you worked aboard. That way you are saying you want them mixed together. So you don't apply for your complete UK pension in Spain unless you think you will get more byixing and getting 37 years , which is the full Spanish pension. In posters case : take full UK pension separately from UK and then collect 24 year s of Spanish pension later but don't tick worked abroad box.

Re: Pensions (plural)
 

Many thanks for everyone’s input. Just to be clear, I do intend to contact the INSS but thought there might be someone here with personal knowledge/experience of this situation.

However, I have since found someone on a UK money forum who has been through this process (albeit UK/Germany in his case), knows others who have, and explained in detail how the EU social security coordination system works under regulation EC 883/2004. First, each country calculates what you should get according to contributions under its system. And then it does a theoretical calculation as if you had paid contributions in both countries into its system but disregarding any overlapping periods. From there it calculates a pro-rata amount.

So in my case, the UK would ignore my Spanish contributions as they would make no difference to my entitlement to a full British pension. Meanwhile, Spain would disregard my voluntary UK contributions as they overlap with my Spanish contributions, and simply calculate on the basis of my 17 years working and contributing in the UK and my eventual 24 years here in Spain. This could possibly, though not necessarily, result in a higher amount than my separate Spanish pension, but it would not be less.

I have also asked the DWP about this and they said of course I can have both pensions. But whether Spain agrees remains to be seen.

So the alternative scenario is the one suggested by the speculation and opinions I’ve read about how the system works, where the UK pays me their full pension, and Spain decides in that case I lose my entitlement to my Spanish pension, despite working 24 years self-employed paying around 300 euros a month in national insurance.

No prizes for guessing which one I favour (and which I think sounds most likely) but I must be prepared for the worst.

Also worth stressing that when people talk about combining pensions, they seem to imply getting one or two. But, whatever happens, each pension is paid by the respective government separately. The only thing combined is the qualifying years for the calculations.

And I find the idea of answering “no” to the question on the Spanish pension application form “have you worked abroad?” troubling. Surely that would be lying to a government body… If it’s legitimate to apply separately, then what would be the sense in playing the system in that way?

As I say I will contact the INSS, though my experience of Spanish bureaucracy is not positive and I suspect the average civil servant here will not know the answer. I think it would need someone higher up who actually processes pension applications of this sort. But anyway, fingers crossed.

And all this is somewhat academic anyway as I can’t change anything, whatever the system, as I’ve bought my UK voluntary contributions and have to work another 3 years here in Spain, contributing. So whatever will be, will be…

Re: Pensions (plural)
 

I don't have the HMRC app, didn't even know there was one.
Getting confirmation of the number of years contracted out would certainly help.
However, the biggest stumbling block appears to be how to calculate the reduction due to being contracted out.

Re: Pensions (plural)
 

The HMRC Gateway App will give you an up to date prediction of your UK pension and similarly the SEPE one will do the same but will offer to do a prediction based on working abroad but you need to go to INSS to do that.

Re: Pensions (plural)
 

​​​​​​⠀‹
I'm already getting my pension, so wasn't looking for a prediction.
It appears that a large portion of my pension was reduced due to being contracted out, and I was trying to find out if this was a sensible reduction.

Re: Pensions (plural)
 

The reduction can be quite large. If you have the required number of years contributions at full rate the State pension is currently £221.20 per week. If you have been contracted out then if contracted out maximum years the weekly pension can fall to as low as £169.50 per week. This figure equates to the standard (no serps) state pension for those refiring before April 2016. This is still known as the basic state pension and the higher one paid to those retiring with full contributions after April 2016 is known as the single tier pension. The only way you will know how many years of contracted out contributions is either using the HMRC App and being registered on Government Gateway system or phoning HMRC and asking them .
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Re: Pensions (plural)
 

I've emailed DWP a number of times, and had some useful replies, but they have always evaded giving information about the amount of reduction due to contracting out.
I fulfilled the 35 years, and maybe a quarter of those were contracted out.
So to lose a third of the pension seems quite a large amount to me.
I'm really only looking for a rule of thumb calculation, to ensure that they haven't made a big mistake in the reduction.

Re: Pensions (plural)
 

Were you born before 6 April 1951? If so you'll be receiving the 'old' State pension, which required 30 years of NI contributions for a full pension (less any contracted out years).

For example, if you were contracted out for 10 years that would comprise a third of your pension.

Re: Pensions (plural)
 

If you are on the old state pension then being contracted out does not reduce the pension. However it means you dont have SERPs for the contracted out years. Serps give an addition to the basic state pension.

Re: Pensions (plural)
 

I can only refer to my own position. I have 42 years contributions but with 40 of those years contracted out. I am on the new state pension (single tier) basically i get about £2 a week above the basic state pension (old state pension). So my weekly pension is reduced by around £49 per week as a result of being Contracted out. I presume the £2 per week I get over the basic state pension is for the couple of very early years when i wasn't contracted out. Extra years above the 35 count for nothing. All i can suggest is phoning them and they will tell you how many years you were contracted out and the affect that has on your pension amount.

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Re: Pensions (plural)
 

As I have said before, I was contracted out for at least 10 years and bought about 11 years of contributions as I retired early. I get more than the new full state pension plus the extra private pension that was paid into during the contracted out period.

I have no idea how they worked that out.

Re: Pensions (plural)
 

​​​​​​I think that will be you either had a number of Serps years or when you bought into tbe extra years you bought into Serps? Those retiring after April 2016 who had Serps rather than carry them over they were rolled into the new state pension. Only if one had sufficient Serps accrued from the old pension and those Serps took them over the new state pension amount did they get that amount added to the new pension.







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Re: Pensions (plural)
 

Does this mean that for each year you were contracted out, you don't receive any pension benefits?
I thought that for a contracted out year, your pension entitlement for that year would be reduced, but that was just an assumption on my part.

Re: Pensions (plural)
 

I was eligible for the pension a couple of months After April 2016.
Though I had the 35 years of contributions, they said that I would be better off getting the OLD state pension.
I didn't understand that at all.
I have made many queries to the DWP. Is this issue of receiving the Old pension, one I should have persisted with getting information from the DWP?
Does not having SERPS, give the same resulting reduction that Spouse of Scouse described?