Lynn R

This is an extract from an article I have just read, which confirms what i have been saying that the copago comes from the individual's own income, be that a pension or some other kind of benefit, not from other family members' income.

"Antonio y Aurora son los progenitores de una familia de Sanlúcar de Barrameda (Cádiz) que tiene un hijo de 35 años, con un grado de discapacidad del 86% a causa de un espectro autista, que vive en una residencia de lunes a viernes por la que abona cada mes el 75% de su pensión no contributiva. El Gobierno aprobó el año pasado un aumento del 15% en la cuantía de estas pensiones por invalidez, para situarlas en 726 euros, a fin de hacer frente a la alta inflación, pero quienes las perciben ven cómo gran parte de esa subida se pierde en el copago, en la parte que les corresponde abonar cada mes por la prestación que reciben.

"A mi hijo, después de pagar la residencia, le queda muy poco para ropa, zapatos, aseo, para ir al dentista, para veinte mil cosas que pueden suceder. Y es injusto que habiendo un aumento de las pensiones, se pida el mismo porcentaje para pagar el centro, mientras la Junta de Andalucía mira para otro lado y no pone más dinero. Estamos indignados, porque esto no debería repercutir en el bolsillo de las personas con discapacidad", se lamenta Antonio Ramos."

El copago, la cuenta pendiente de la dependencia que penaliza a las rentas bajas y se come la subida de sus pensiones (cermi.es),

Also, according to this the average copago for domiciliary care, nationally, is €2.98 per hour - which is tiny, although there are wide regional variations as there are for other types of care.

Copagos III. Los copagos en el Sistema para la Autonomía y Atención a la Dependencia - BBVA Mi jubilación (jubilaciondefuturo.es)

rbs_gb

VPO is NOT social housing. It is simply a subsidy of the purchase price. It is a means to provide entry level housing but is absolutely nothing like we would consider to be council housing..

VPO schemes have also had a huge number of scandals over the years, as "los enchufados" usually families of local politicians usually get strangely high up in the draw for who gets the subsidy, only to sell the property at market prices soon afterwards.

Lou71

That is because Podemos are a bunch of miserable, killjoy, communists.

Sanchez said he wouldn't be able to live with himself if he went into coalition with Podemos and then...he entered into a coalition with Podemos because he was desperate for power. He's now paying the price for inflicting rotten communist policies on Spain and most people can't wait to see the back of him. In some ways it's a pity and a wasted opportunity because on a personal level, Sanchez is a talented, multilingual, intelligent individual and a good ambassador for Spain. .

Ronnyone

Admittedly the proposal was affordable housing for young low paid workers. It will now be ditched as the ley de Vivienda never reached the BOE stage before last week. However unless Spain wants to tackle housing and break the economic model of children living at home they will experience the problem of okupas more and more- it is gathering momentum as a political movement as opposed to a criminal one and that is never a good thing to ignore as history teachers us.

rbs_gb

Completely agree that social housing needs to be sorted out and it was one on my list above. In the UK we have about 4 million housed in rented social housing and it is still inadequate. In Spain, the sector for public rented accomodation is less than 400,000.......

Lynn R

I too completely agree that social housing for affordable rents should be near the top of any Government's list of priorities. In my municipality we still have a settlement of chabolas where more than 30 families live, and successive Ayuntamientos controlled by both the main parties have been promising to see them removed and the inhabitants rehoused for the past 30 years at least. They are still there, just across the main road from new developments of expensive apartments in the seaside resort of Torre del Mar. It is a disgrace that people should still be living in such conditions in the 21st century in a developed European country. However, many Spanish people would be resistant to the idea of people getting "something for nothing, that we have had to work hard for", and we have our fair share of NIMBYs too, who don't want the chabola dwellers rehoused anywhere near them.

Vélez-Málaga reclama a la Junta una solución «urgente» al chabolismo en Torre del Mar tras décadas de intentos fallidos | Diario Sur

Action also needs to be taken in areas of particularly high demand to limit the number of residential properties given over to short term tourist accommodation.

rbs_gb

Quoting the cermi article you are now close to the point I was making about how the copago system affects Expats, and which was the point I made in the very first comment about this. If you are an expat, and become dependant upon the state for your care, the Spanish system will continue to take up to 80% of your pension, no matter what because of the copago system. In the UK, you get down to 23k and suddenly you become elegible for pension credits, housing benefits, assistance benefits, personal independance payments etc etc. For expats for whom many do not have extended family to help out, staying in Spain could be a miserable existence.

rbs_gb

As I read that I was going Lou is off on one, then I read your last sentence. Fair comment, shame about the company he has kept! .

Lynn R

But if you need to go into a care home you don't get to keep all those additional benefits (and those who own their own home don't get housing benefit anyway) and have the State pay all your care home fees, they are taken towards the cost and you are left with just the 28.30 personal expenses allowance, so what is the difference between that and the Spanish copagos? They are just giving out money with one hand and taking it back with the other.

What I know is that I could fund the shortfall between the cost of a Spanish care home and my post-tax income for at least 30 years if I were to have to go into residential care, from savings and the sale of my home (not an expensive one) without ever needing to become dependent on the state, and that would definitely not be the case in the UK even if I were to receive Pension Credit (which I would never qualify for because my pension income is too high), attendance allowance (even the higher rate is only 101 per week which does not go far towards care home fees of 1k per week or more). People frail enough to need residential care typically live only a few more years so there would be a greater likelihood of something being left to pass on to my family. I would have no objection to selling my home because why would I need it if I am living in a care home?

This is the scale of charges set by Wigan MBC (the area my family live in) for adult social care at home - 17.48 per hour if you have to pay the full cost - which I would have to. I would not need to pay €20 per hour here in Spain and there is less of a shortage of people willing to do this type of work. Plus that is purely for personal care (washing, dressing, assistance with toileting, preparing food and administering medication) and, as was made clear to me by the Council when I was looking into possible help for my father if he had been able to leave hospital (which sadly he never was) if assistance was needed with cleaning, laundry and shopping, etc. then that would either have to be provided by the family or contracted for privately and paid for in additional to the Council care costs, they do not provide home help type assistance which is included in the home care service under the Ley de Dependencia.

How much will I have to pay? (wigan.gov.uk)

Ronnyone

Let's not forget PP"s illustrious academic: Christina Cifuentes who managed to get her Masters degree in a weekend!!! Shame it was fraudulently obtained by PP"s ubiquitous tentacles of corruption. More embarrassing was her attempts to justify it by saying she worked very hard- for 48 hours!!!!

The " commies" have Inglesias ( PhD political history and University professor) and Pablo Encique ( him in the wheelchair) PhD Phyics.

Vox"s Abascal probably doesn't subscribe to the saying- The pen is mightier than the sword- since he carries a revolver on a shoulder strap!!! ( That is actually true).

Lynn R

A good article about the bleak outlook for the Ley de Vivienda if right wing parties win the election.

Spain’s snap election could kill its housing revolution before it even gets started | Eduardo González de Molina | The Guardian

Ronnyone

Here is an interesting article which highlights the potential problems Spain might have if PP become the next government whilst having the presidency of EU. A boycott of Spanish strawberries over allegations that the the Andalucian junta are allowing illegal use of water from the Donaña park to irrigate agriculture.

https://www.20minutos.es/noticia/513...erno-freseros/

rbs_gb

"no somos mas que cuatro monos". Be good for us all to keep that old chestnut in mind.. We really are not important, and our views are pretty much irrelevant. I totally get you guys clinging to the wreckage of the current government, but when the Guardian AND The Telegraph start to write similar "the left is doomed" pieces that is unusual to say the least! For those of us who prefer a more PP bias to the conversation, I'm happy to identify myself with this:
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/202...tories-can-le/

Ronnyone

Being more of a commie I will go with a free online paper like The Guardian than the pay-wall Telegraph!

Ronnyone

So for those of us following the election: I see today Feijóo has now agreed to the debates with Sanchez that yesterday PP popular were ridiculing. I doubt it makes much difference but it does appear as if Sanchez has scored a quick point. Remember how Teresa May refused to take part in the debates in uk and how that effected her.?
Also this alliance with Podemos Sumar and some others is an interesting one as they would most likely help Sanchez in building the numbers. That is quite crucial because whilst the same thing can apply to PP and Vox they really dislike each other ( Abascal and Feijóo do not get on apparently) . In other words the left probably will find it easier to bury the hatchet than the right. Of course we still have 6 weeks to go and alot of this election is going to rest on the news as it occurs and quite clearly not much on actual policies