Stingychips

Not when big fines are getting dished out Willy nilly.

Bomber Harris

The right to visit, yes subject to declaring their entry in accordance with Spanish and EU law.

The WA hasn't retained Brit's FOM rights, read it again. A Brit resident in one EUMS doesn't have the automatic right to reside in another EUM.S

EsuriJohn

if your spouse is a citizen of an EU member state the you can accompany him/her into another Schengen state for 90 days before returning to your state of residence. It pays to have an Irish spouse.

EuroTrash

I know there is no right to reside in another EU state, because onward movement was specificially excluded.
But I thought the right to visit freely was protected? If you have the automatic right to visit for up to 90 days, surely that means you do not need to declare entry.

https://www.europarl.europa.eu/RegDa...)651975_EN.pdf
Finally, while EU free movement law will continue to apply during the transition period there is an important limitation for those persons covered by the withdrawal agreement once the transition period ends. The right of onward movement across the EU for UK citizens (from the host EU state to another EU Member State, for stays of over 90 days), has not been secured.
i.e. it is specifically the right to onward movement that has been lost. By implication ther FoM right to visit for up to 90 days has been retained.
But you may be right because I can't find it clearly stated anywhere.

Bomber Harris

It's completely wrong.

Bomber Harris

A poorly worded piece by europarl. FOM is the right to move and work in other EUMS, the right to visit for 90 days (which doesn't apply to EU citizens) relates to the Schengen Acquis, as such it is nothing to do with FOM.
If you read the EU link that DLC posted you will see which EUMS have exercised their rights under EU law requiring third country citizens to declare their entry into national territory when crossing the unmanned borders. At the time it was written Italy hadn't declared their conditions, they have subsequently decided on the same as SP and PT, stop at the border to declare and if no-one is there you have 3 days to do it.

EuroTrash

Maybe. You're starting to convince me but I'm not quite there yet.
The FoM Directive makes a clear distinction between the right to reside for up to 90 days and the right to reside beyond 90 days. I took the sentence cited above, to be an intentional and specific reference to this, ie the right to stay in another state for up to 90 days is preserved, the right to reside beyond that, is not. https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-cont...x%3A32004L0038

CHAPTER III

Right of residence

Article 6

Right of residence for up to three months

1. Union citizens shall have the right of residence on the territory of another Member State for a period of up to three months without any conditions or any formalities other than the requirement to hold a valid identity card or passport.

bobd22

Yes I understand that. However my initial response was a question in relation to Lou71 post where they had travelled from UK to Malaga. That explains why they went via passport control. I was of the mistaken belief that if travelling to Schengen countries other than Spain which is my host country as resident there my passport would be stamped entering that country. Clearly I was wrong from the replies here.

bobd22

Thanks for your reply and the link which I will look at.

Lynn R

I flew from Málaga to Rome and back from Pisa to Málaga last month, and from Málaga to Amsterdam and back last year, and can confirm that passengers flying from one country to another if both are in the Schengen zone do not go anywhere near passport control either on leaving or arriving, so there is no possibility of a non EU citizen's passport being stamped - only when they enter the Schengen zone from a country outside it.

DLC

However the document is from 2006, so it's not clear cut.

Rules for reporting presence (< 90 days):

https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizen...e/index_en.htm

WA rights, in particular section 5:

https://ec.europa.eu/info/publicatio...e-rights-eu_en

Given that UK nationals under the WA card have the right to transit EU countries without passport stamps, we may also have kept the right to report presence in the same way we did as EU citizens (i.e. not to report presence in most EU countries).

I guess we'll never know unless we're a lawyer or we ask the EU helpline.

Bomber Harris

EuroTrash
Brits aren't EU citizens any more so FOM doesn't apply, note the wording "Union citizens" in the Article you've quoted.

The 'protected rights' under the WA only apply in the EUMS of residence. So whilst you will be treated as if you were still an EU citizen in the EUMS state of your residence, once you step foot over the border into another EUMS you revert to third country citizen status.

bobd22

Before Brexit we were citizens of an EU member state , we no longer are so although my understanding was in host country for me Spain where I'm resident there was no change, I thought the Schengen rules applied fully to me if I visited another Schengen country other than my host country. From the replies I was clearly wrong re passport stamps to enter other than my host country.

Bomber Harris

We haven't.

bobd22

Thanks Lynn but surely that was not the case re my initial reply to Lou71. As they had travelled to Malaga from UK a non EU and non Schengen country. They clearly did go through passport control hence the confusion re passport stamping. I know if purely traveling between Schengen countries no passport checks but that isn't the case if travelling from UK.