paradise lost
 

new for wednesday night, programme on the problems facing expats in Spain.

Re: paradise lost
 

I presume on Sky tv.......which channel,what time?

Re: paradise lost
 

ITV1 9 pm UK time

Re: paradise lost
 

How times change.

Last night I was watching Comando Actulidad on TVE about how the crisis in Spain is affecting rich in Spain.

WOW.

One guy got a Million Euro apt, on a marina in Girona, Speed yacht outside worth another Million.

He`s got no money and has been trying to sell the apt and boat, there worthless as nobody wants them.He`d even sell the yacht for 500,000 making a 300,000 loss.:eek:

Had to laugh though when the rich tart in the boutique, stated she can`t afford to go out to eat as much and how the poor are less affected because there already poor and don`t notice:unsure:

The Luxury Market with an entrance fee of 200 Euros was wow, some guy buying Caviar for his wife and intimate friend.

Had to laugh at the gym owner lookin around a 300,000 Euro Ferrari as if its a second hand motor in a garage.You don`t look at the engine in a Ferrari, its a bloody Ferrari you numpty.

It has a little bit of history and pedigree:rolleyes:

Then they go to Nicki Beach in Marbella and we witness the fat business man spending 1,800 Euros each bottle of champagne and filling water pistols with it.:rofl:

I`m actually glad i`m not rich enough to experience these people.:)

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(Then they go to Nicki Beach in Marbella and we witness the fat business man spending 1,800 Euros each bottle of champagne and filling water pistols with )it.:rofl:

Tw**s !!

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I've not noticed much either I'm glad I'm poor :thumbsup:

Ferrari worthless :thumbdown:

You now need a Brawn :thumbup:

Re: paradise lost
 

If it's full of sob stories from the 'Brit Enclaves' it won't keep my attention.

BTW, it's in HD if you're lucky enough to have the new EPG on your Sky HD box.

(Freesat HD too, IF the red button works).

Re: paradise lost
 

This programme is full of mucking fuppets!!!! If they could only hear themselves. Supposedly intelligent people!!!!! They're a joke. They would not have done this had they been in the UK and it is their (albeit innocent, but passive) racism that has flumped them up!!! Their willingness to cling to the idea 'Well, this is Spain, we can't expect them to do things the English way' has done them in.

Me and Mrs F are thoroughly enjoying it. We would like to say 'There but for the grace of God go I' but the truth is neither one of us would have been so stupid. And when we bought we were the supposedly 'ignorant young', so God only knows what these bunch of wuckfits are!!!

Re: paradise lost
 

The programn is a two-part series on ITV at 9.00pm (10.00pm in Spain) on 17th. The first part deals with two situations in Malaga, the second on June 24th delves into a situation in Benidorm and another in Cantoria (Almería). This last bit might be interesting (despite the - er - sometimes heavy propaganda element in these shows) as it deals with some major scams in this small moribund pueblo which has no agriculture, industry or tourism. Its only game is selling casas to the Brits, but it screwed up big time, with some astonishing rip-offs. There was a British protest march through the pueblo in September which, being a rare beast in Spain, will presumably feature in the show. Nine months later, are things better? Well, apparently no they aren't.
I've got pictures and text on Spanish Shilling if you hunt for it (Sept 2008).

Re: paradise lost
 

when they were talking about overflowing drains when it rains and power cuts, all i could think to myself was "doesnt that happen all over spain anyway...."

Yes nice to see all the shit flowing down the road in glorious HD! Thats what it was made for!!

Re: paradise lost
 

Sounds like you weren't actually watching it, instead just reading the blurb!


Yup! Sometimes the rain is just simply so ferocious and comes down so quick, the drains just can't cope.

It was interesting that this 'documentary' used no Spanish perspective and the whole thing was done using 'Anglo-Saxon' morality in its conclusions and judgements, sadly one of the biggest problems that afflicts the typical expat in Spain. Shedding the shackles of our North European sensibilities is arguably THE most difficult element when coming to integrate into Spanish life - even more so than getting a firm grasp of the language.

Time and again - and this Spain part of the BE forum is a PERFECT testament to this - Spain is judged using Anglo-Saxon morality, which is one of the most uptight in the world anyway. One perfect example can be found in the thread entitled "Are All the Spanish born with a hearing impediment?"

Typical ITV xenophobic fodder aimed at the Daily Mail readers. Something that both ITV and Sky have been peddling now since last December in that everyone must be done to show the Eurozone in as negative light as possible whilst all of a sudden (as they showed little interest previously) portraying Camber bloody Sands, Barry 'pissing it down' Island, Margate and all the other awful Kiss me Kwik shitholes as the only place to be this year. And you thought propaganda was only used during WWII - it's alive and well on commercial TV right now. Product placement is one thing as is paid for ads - but filtering one message over and over into their supposedly neutral coverage is just ridiculous

Re: paradise lost
 

You're not talking mr atlas? I thought he looked the biggest mucking fuppet of the lot. (mind you, hard to choose...mmm....)

Re: paradise lost
 

I knew I wouldn't miss english tele

but no doubt when dh returns he'll 'sort something out'

Re: paradise lost
 

.......... and Blackpool. Ahhh Blackpool :thumbsup:
Blackpool is THE place to be this summer :thumbup:








Nice to see you posting in your usual style Forty! Welcome back :wub:

Re: paradise lost
 

the drains problems in La Zenia have been around for many years, at least the programme did mention tht the local authorities had received money to sort this out, The drains in the street concerned, and it is only one small part of La Zenia, stand 2 feet proud of the road surface. It was typical moaning by people who had been pressured into buying, one couple bought via pictures shown them in the UK, never came to Spain to see the development, and had then been affected by the recession. I had very little sympathy for any of those affected, and good luck to the Yorkshire lass who is looking to capitalise on the problems, but I think she is trying to get too much for nothing, A house dropped from 350,000 to 240,000, she offered 185,000!!!, owner said no chance, but he would take 220,000, this had been her budget, but she still turned it down. It did show the problems associated with buying off plan, so may have done some good, but I agree, that Atlas guy was a real smarmy git, 'would you buy a house from that man' to paraphrase a well known saying.

Re: paradise lost
 

it's all a plot by the UK to try and show that the rest of Europe is far worse than the UK. After all, there are no floods in the UK, no dodgy practices (except MPs) and nobody moans in the UK.

Anybody who bought property in Spain or the UK as the main element of an investment rather than a home was looking for trouble.

Spain is a far better place to live than the UK .... but don't spoil it for Gordon Brown.

Re: paradise lost
 

I didn't see last night's effort, but from other similar programs along the 'Homes from Hell' style, it's clear that the British media doesn't particularly want all of its readers/viewers/listeners/consumers scooting off to Foreign Parts.
Which is why the demolition of the Priors house in Vera (Jan 2008) gets such a huge coverage in the UK. The message is not 'watch out Almería, you are going to kill the Golden Goose' so much as 'Watch out for Spain'.
For the many (and growing) grass-roots associations in Spain which try to defend European rights, or protest at property fraud, or town hall corruption, or rip-offs here and there (where the crooks seem to hold all the cards), programs like this one can be useful - but only up to a point.

Re: paradise lost
 

Its sad that these people and the many we don`t hear from have been trapped in this situation.

My first reaction was "How bloody stupid".

Seeing the images of the Costa Del Sol pre crisis anybody with a brain could see it was not an investment oppertunity.

The amount of housing built is astonishing and frankly, hiddeous.

But to balance it in the UK most of the current house reposessions are second home owners who purchased property as investments, hoping that the rental market would pay the mortgage.

I guess people have not learned that you should only invest what you can afford to lose.:rolleyes:

The problem today with people is they view a boom as a normal occurance, booms operate the same as recessions, they come and go, but many stretch there financese in booms and suffer in downturns before recessions hit.

A sure sign you`ve overstretched yourselve.

Buying a property in a boom and then complaining that interest rate increases have caused your mortgage to hit 3, 000 euros a month is frankly pathetic, especially since rates haven`t increased that much.

Had interest rates hit 1990 rates, then yes you were unlucky.

The Irish guy i felt sorry for.

Yes they bought in an urb and yes they probably don`t care about Spanish culture, but there not in the minority.

They also don`t deserve there properties to be left in that state.

Which is the second mistake many make when dealing with Spain.

Spain operates differently to the UK, rules, corruption, court proceedings and regulations have been an issue in Spain for a long period of time.

Many local councils, tradesman etc etc have feed themselves without giving a monkeys who they cross nowing that court cases can take years to resolve.

No wonder Mr Budget Estate agent loves his job, the unique situation of Spain ensures that Brits are still arriving to.

I had to laugh though at that women lookin for property, she views the 350,000 apt with an askin price of 240,000 and she offers 180,000 :o

Having said that from what the camera showed for 350,000 Euro`s, the original developer must be laughing all the way to the bank.

I wouldn`t have paid 60,000 new.

And the other guy in Manilva, paid 250,000 for a 65 sq M apt, thats just insane.

There must be some seriously rose tinted glasses around.

I guess some will pay anything for paradise, just a pity they went to Spain.

Re: paradise lost
 

Spot on:thumbsup:

Re: paradise lost
 

Unfortunately there´s an awful lot of people who don´t recognise the ´only invest what....' maxim, which is why thereś an awful lot of TV production companies making money off the back of these poor decisions.

I thought it was an accepted economic rule/pattern than we have boom & bust? Point being, though, you must be prepared for the downs as well as the ups.

As for the 65sq m apartment, well itś easy to be complacent but I think our verandah is 65sqm. How can you get enough room to live in that space? Never mind spend €250k for the privilege:ohmy:

Re: paradise lost
 

They also made a lot from the go and live in Spain programmes.

There following the trends, i`m sure when the boom returns, so will the investors.

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Had they made a prog.about how nice Spain was with lots of ex pats living very happily in their lovely new villas i dont think many ppl.would have been sitting on the edge of their seats waiting to watch it.

Its all about TV ratings,selling advertising time etc.
Bad news and crisis sell.

Re: paradise lost
 

Thats very true.

Best to ignore the media and go with your instincts, i bet the people on the programme and the people on the debt forums wished they did.

Now how did so many expats manage to get Mortgages in Spain ?

Re: paradise lost
 

probably because of 'creative' applications.

Re: paradise lost
 

Buy my artists impression, I can tell you it will be worth twice as much when it`s built.




























What is twice as much as naff all ?

Re: paradise lost
 

Well I actually felt really sorry for the Irish guy. Flooding isn´t the same as shit in your street and to have to live in a demolition area when you thought you were coming out to live in peace for your retirement is a god awful shame. As for the woman who was after a bargain. I don´t think she had any intention of buying. She just wanted her 10 mins of fame. Did anyone else notice her awful brown teeth?

Re: paradise lost
 

Like the women stated, all you needed was Pulse and a Passport, Spanish banks i fear were as folish as there clients.

The only winners were the farmers turned property develops, mayors and the local business owners.

The rest got f......d.

Re: paradise lost
 

My OH.:lol:

I guess its a women thing to notice that detail.

She noticed that at the end when they visited her rental apt, she had had her hair done.:rofl:

I do feel sorry for people in the position of the Irish guy, his only hope is the economy lifting back up to the point that a developer will continue the project.

I fear though that build doesn`t have planning permission and will more than likely be left or worse demolished.

Simpathy seems to be low on the agenda of Brits and Spaniards.

Its a weird situation.:(

Re: paradise lost
 

Awful state of affairs in that dump where the irish guy lived, but was it just me that noticed when he was rendering the stairs, he did one side of one staircase, then moved on a few did one more side and got more on the ground than on the brick... no wonder he's been doing it so long!!!

Re: paradise lost
 

It's not just the Brits who've been caught by the bank's irresponsible lending, I don't have the figures but believe that there are far more repossessions among the Spanish.

Our Spanish bank, for the first time that I know of, now have a large database of repossessions, and looking at the properties, mainly apartments in big cities, they all appear to be owned by Spaniards.

Re: paradise lost
 

Note the development the Irish guy was on came to a halt two years ago.

Well before the sh1t hit the fan :frown:

Re: paradise lost
 

I'm not sure I understand some of the criticism here.

Capitalism is based on people gambling on what is going to happen.

All mortgages are people gambling that it will work.

The ones who win are described as successful investors, and no-one worries how near they may have come to the edge.

The losers are criticised for being stupid.

You can't have any ecology, whether it is the stock market, the housng market or the living world without winners and losers, for if there were no losers, then who would the winners eat?

Post this housing slump there will be a lot of people who picked up a bargain/s and who will in the years to come be hailed as savvy investors.

Then the cycle will repeat to a greater or lesser extent.

Re: paradise lost
 

I thought she looked familiar. :eek:;) so did a bit of digging
It's confirmed elswhere that she is something of a regular on these types of programes.
She featured first a few years ago on "Passport to the sun" set in Mallorca and presented by Nadia Sawalha. (this was the series that featured Leapy Lee):ohmy:

Mandy from Bradford was starting a new life in Mallorca with her daughter and renting a one bed apartment. When their funds started getting low she hawked herself round the hotels and beaches trying to get work from tourists as a nail beautician.

So she was skint then. But suddenly it seems that she has funds to buy in Marbella. :confused::D

Re: paradise lost
 

I have often thought that some of those characters have cropped up a couple of times.

Recycling?

Re: paradise lost
 

Given she's a tv regular, we may yet get the chance to check, but it's my contention the awful brown teeth were in fact teeth covered by a brace.
(cos I thought the same then looked again more carefully!)

Re: paradise lost
 

Can anyone explain why the mortgage of the couple with the large house has 'doubled because of the recession'?

Re: paradise lost
 

They stated there repayments had increased to 3,000 ish Euro`s a month, i don`t believe they stated ther mortgage had increased.

Maybe they didn`t realise how the interest is applied in Spain.

There are debt forums dedicated to Spanish debt.

If warning`s were available, understood and not ignored there wouldn`t be such a situation, I`m sure if the programme had 20 hrs of air time, they`d fill it, no problem.

People still refuse to accept Spain is in recession and was before the UK, they still believe they can move to Spain, get work and manage, some might, hell one day even a lemin will survive.:)

Re: paradise lost
 

I wondered about that too, but certain Spanish interest only mortgages, fixed for say, two years, then rise considerably when the term expires. Nevertheless, in the past year, they will have come down. Currently, and I'm no expert, you pay around 500 Euros per month, per 100K borrowed. On that figure, that couple must have borrowed something like half-a-million Euros, against a property now worth around that amount, or less.

Sadly, in our circle of acquaintances, many others are in the same boat. I was in that boat too, in the UK, in 1990. and '73, or was it '83? I got over it, and they will too.

Re: paradise lost
 

I wonder if the second part will actually show some stories of people that have made money out of the current climate, for there are more than a handful of them? It is a bad situation for some, but then again, it always has been, there has always been cases of developers going bust and leaving empty shells of buildings dotted around the coast, I know more now than before but it has always been there. The same as any country in the world as another poster mentioned, where there are losers there have to be winners, some people just have better luck or are more astute than others. Like the old boy that bought off plan in his living room, he even said the salesman had "glossy brochures"... No excuse for parting with his pension fund if you ask me.

Re: paradise lost
 

It's the usual bias slant that you hear in British media recently. Apparently all prices have gone up massively in Spain because of the recession. It's trotted out on the radio and TV all the time and it's usually by people who only visit Spain and not live here. Just last month I heard on a Five Live SPORT (yes, sport!) programme the commentator lamenting how expensive it had gotten:

(In a discussion about transfer fees etc) "The Spanish are really suffering. They seen prices rocket since the credit crunch. I just got back from there and I restaurant we always visit it cost us 90 pounds. The last time we were there just over a year ago it was just 60 pounds"

NUMPTY!!!! The prices haven't gone up. Your pound has gone down. A year or so ago €90 may well have been just 60 pounds. With the euro and pound at near parity, well €90 will be 90 pounds or thereabouts. So how exactly are Spanish 'suffering'? We're still paying exactly the same.

This is why a lot of people are trying to offlad their mortgage laden properties. People who signed on to a Spanish mortgage two or three years ago but paying for it out of their UK bank accounts may well have been paying 500 pounds a month but with the current exchange rate that will have jumped massively. Had they been in Spain paying from funds in a Spanish bank, this jump would not have happened.