Padrón.....
Dec 3rd 2012 | 6:28 pm
#1
Thread Starter
¿Dónde estoy?
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 13,330
From: my paradise - Jávea
Padrón.....
here we go again.....
on a local facebook group someone asked about the padrón & should they sign on if they aren't resident
they were told by me & others that no, non-residents don't
then our mayor (it isn't him, it's an English-speaking staff member who we believe translates the mayor's comments) posted this....
which is totally against what the INE states & what we have always known to be true
http://www.ine.es/metodologia/t20/t203024566.htm
translated
what hope when the 'mayor' gives out wrong info??
on a local facebook group someone asked about the padrón & should they sign on if they aren't resident
they were told by me & others that no, non-residents don't
then our mayor (it isn't him, it's an English-speaking staff member who we believe translates the mayor's comments) posted this....
It is very important that all property owners (whether resident of non resident) are registered on the Padron.
The Central Government allocates money to the different municipalities according to how many people are on the Padrón. If you are not registered, your town hall is losing money for the provision of health
centres, doctors, police officers, postal workers and schools.
You must be on the Padrón for a certain period of time to take advantage of some income-related benefits and other aspects of social care available through social services at your town hall.
Depending on the town hall, registration on the Padrón could mean reduced Property Taxes, as well as reductions in certain community charges and inheritance tax. Furthermore, those on the Padrón can also often enjoy discounted courses, and leisure and cultural activities run by the town hall.
Your information on the Padrón is confidential. It is NOT given to the Police or Tax Authorities. Many ILLEGAL immigrants are registered, as a Padrón certificate is required when enrolling their children into local schools.
I hope that you will re-register and pass this this message on
The Central Government allocates money to the different municipalities according to how many people are on the Padrón. If you are not registered, your town hall is losing money for the provision of health
centres, doctors, police officers, postal workers and schools.
You must be on the Padrón for a certain period of time to take advantage of some income-related benefits and other aspects of social care available through social services at your town hall.
Depending on the town hall, registration on the Padrón could mean reduced Property Taxes, as well as reductions in certain community charges and inheritance tax. Furthermore, those on the Padrón can also often enjoy discounted courses, and leisure and cultural activities run by the town hall.
Your information on the Padrón is confidential. It is NOT given to the Police or Tax Authorities. Many ILLEGAL immigrants are registered, as a Padrón certificate is required when enrolling their children into local schools.
I hope that you will re-register and pass this this message on
http://www.ine.es/metodologia/t20/t203024566.htm
El Padrón municipal es el registro administrativo donde constan los vecinos del municipio. Sus datos constituyen prueba de residencia en el municipio y del domicilio habitual en el mismo.
Toda persona que viva en España está obligada a inscribirse en el Padrón del municipio en que resida habitualmente. Quien viva en varios municipios deberá inscribirse únicamente en el que habite durante más tiempo al año.
Toda persona que viva en España está obligada a inscribirse en el Padrón del municipio en que resida habitualmente. Quien viva en varios municipios deberá inscribirse únicamente en el que habite durante más tiempo al año.
The municipal census is the administrative register of residents of the municipality. The data provides proof of residence in the municipality and ordinarily resident in the same.
Everyone living in Spain is obliged to register in the municipal census where they are usually resident. Anyone living in several municipalities must register only where he is living for most of the year.
Everyone living in Spain is obliged to register in the municipal census where they are usually resident. Anyone living in several municipalities must register only where he is living for most of the year.
Dec 3rd 2012 | 6:58 pm
#2
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 11,231
From: Granada Costa
Re: Padrón.....
The key words are"domicilio habitual".
This is used a lot in things like tax laws and you can only have a habitual residence if you live here for the majority of your time.
The Embassy site also states that:- "It is obligatory by Spanish law to register on the padrón at the Town Hall where you habitually reside",
The other implication of declaring that you habitually live in Spain would suggest to the tax authorities that you should be tax resident.
This is used a lot in things like tax laws and you can only have a habitual residence if you live here for the majority of your time.
The Embassy site also states that:- "It is obligatory by Spanish law to register on the padrón at the Town Hall where you habitually reside",
The other implication of declaring that you habitually live in Spain would suggest to the tax authorities that you should be tax resident.
Last edited by Fred James; Dec 3rd 2012 at 7:03 pm.
Dec 3rd 2012 | 7:14 pm
#3
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 6,912
From: Puente Esuri
Re: Padrón.....
here we go again.....
on a local facebook group someone asked about the padrón & should they sign on if they aren't resident
they were told by me & others that no, non-residents don't
then our mayor (it isn't him, it's an English-speaking staff member who we believe translates the mayor's comments) posted this....
which is totally against what the INE states & what we have always known to be true
http://www.ine.es/metodologia/t20/t203024566.htm
translated
what hope when the 'mayor' gives out wrong info??
on a local facebook group someone asked about the padrón & should they sign on if they aren't resident
they were told by me & others that no, non-residents don't
then our mayor (it isn't him, it's an English-speaking staff member who we believe translates the mayor's comments) posted this....
which is totally against what the INE states & what we have always known to be true
http://www.ine.es/metodologia/t20/t203024566.htm
translated
what hope when the 'mayor' gives out wrong info??
Last edited by EsuriJohn; Dec 3rd 2012 at 7:17 pm.
Dec 3rd 2012 | 7:29 pm
#4
Thread Starter
¿Dónde estoy?
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 13,330
From: my paradise - Jávea
Re: Padrón.....
The key words are"domicilio habitual".
This is used a lot in things like tax laws and you can only have a habitual residence if you live here for the majority of your time.
The Embassy site also states that:- "It is obligatory by Spanish law to register on the padrón at the Town Hall where you habitually reside",
The other implication of declaring that you habitually live in Spain would suggest to the tax authorities that you should be tax resident.
This is used a lot in things like tax laws and you can only have a habitual residence if you live here for the majority of your time.
The Embassy site also states that:- "It is obligatory by Spanish law to register on the padrón at the Town Hall where you habitually reside",
The other implication of declaring that you habitually live in Spain would suggest to the tax authorities that you should be tax resident.
I've replied as much
there go my dreams of a job with the ayto
he does say that it's confidential & the tax authorities have no access to it, so in that case there are no implications - but I guess he might be wrong there, too...
Dec 3rd 2012 | 7:33 pm
#5
Thread Starter
¿Dónde estoy?
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 13,330
From: my paradise - Jávea
Re: Padrón.....
The Mayor clearly believes that he needs the income for his council above the need to follow exactly the rules that we expats think exist. Who are we "EXPATS" to say he is wrong let him argue with his national authorities. What I find interesting is not that he sails close to the wind but that sets out all the advantages to the individual to be on the Padron except it also allows you to be listed on the "list of voters" which may not be to his advantage come the next municipal elections!
although I have posted saying that he is wrong, I have quoted official sources - & if he thinks non-residents on the padrón can benefit from many of the things he has listed he's wrong there, too - you need to have a resident cert for most of them
in a lot of areas now you have to show your resident cert when you sign on the padrón - I was asked for mine when I needed a copy earlier this year - so the left & right hands are getting something mixed up between them......
Dec 3rd 2012 | 7:44 pm
#6
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 6,912
From: Puente Esuri
Re: Padrón.....
The key words are"domicilio habitual".
This is used a lot in things like tax laws and you can only have a habitual residence if you live here for the majority of your time.
The Embassy site also states that:- "It is obligatory by Spanish law to register on the padrón at the Town Hall where you habitually reside",
The other implication of declaring that you habitually live in Spain would suggest to the tax authorities that you should be tax resident.
This is used a lot in things like tax laws and you can only have a habitual residence if you live here for the majority of your time.
The Embassy site also states that:- "It is obligatory by Spanish law to register on the padrón at the Town Hall where you habitually reside",
The other implication of declaring that you habitually live in Spain would suggest to the tax authorities that you should be tax resident.
There are much more sophisticated tests for tax residency and the dear old HMRC have the fall back catch all that unless you are someone else's hook you they will not remove you from theirs. I am definitly resident in Spain have no property or goods and chattels in any other country so I am registered on the Padron and can vote in local elections and make tax returns here but pay no tax. I pay large amounts of tax in UK and will lose my vote in a few years so taxation with no representation. It's a crazy Community that we all live in!
Dec 3rd 2012 | 7:58 pm
#7
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¿Dónde estoy?
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 13,330
From: my paradise - Jávea
Re: Padrón.....
However it could be argued that if you have a house in Spain and a house in UK if you are in one or other country for several months at a time then that is where you are habitually resident at that time. Of course if you are an owner in Spain and you come for just two weeks a year and rent to unknown punters the other 28 weeks it would be impossible to say you we're habitually resident.
There are much more sophisticated tests for tax residency and the dear old HMRC have the fall back catch all that unless you are someone else's hook you they will not remove you from theirs. I am definitly resident in Spain have no property or goods and chattels in any other country so I am registered on the Padron and can vote in local elections and make tax returns here but pay no tax. I pay large amounts of tax in UK and will lose my vote in a few years so taxation with no representation. It's a crazy Community that we all live in!
There are much more sophisticated tests for tax residency and the dear old HMRC have the fall back catch all that unless you are someone else's hook you they will not remove you from theirs. I am definitly resident in Spain have no property or goods and chattels in any other country so I am registered on the Padron and can vote in local elections and make tax returns here but pay no tax. I pay large amounts of tax in UK and will lose my vote in a few years so taxation with no representation. It's a crazy Community that we all live in!
taken at word though, if someone IS here for 'most of the year' then they are resident & therefore should be on the padrón & registered as resident too
Dec 3rd 2012 | 8:02 pm
#8
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 581
From: Seville
Re: Padrón.....
We, wrongly, signed on the padrón soon after buying our house here. We then traveled from UK regularly and frequently for five years but were not resident here. When we did move permanently and imported our car the Hacienda initially refused to allow our tax-free importation on the basis that my padrón indicated we had been resident here for 5 years and therefore were not eligible to import tax-free. Fortunately we had a good géstor who took various pieces of evidence that we had not been, in fact, resident here and so it was allowed.
Dec 3rd 2012 | 8:07 pm
#9
Thread Starter
¿Dónde estoy?
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 13,330
From: my paradise - Jávea
Re: Padrón.....
We, wrongly, signed on the padrón soon after buying our house here. We then traveled from UK regularly and frequently for five years but were not resident here. When we did move permanently and imported our car the Hacienda initially refused to allow our tax-free importation on the basis that my padrón indicated we had been resident here for 5 years and therefore were not eligible to import tax-free. Fortunately we had a good géstor who took various pieces of evidence that we had not been, in fact, resident here and so it was allowed.
Dec 3rd 2012 | 8:10 pm
#10
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 6,912
From: Puente Esuri
Re: Padrón.....
the link I gave does say 'must register only where he is living for most of the year' - which is presumably so that the govt isn't paying more than one town for each person
taken at word though, if someone IS here for 'most of the year' then they are resident & therefore should be on the padrón & registered as resident too
taken at word though, if someone IS here for 'most of the year' then they are resident & therefore should be on the padrón & registered as resident too
Dec 3rd 2012 | 8:19 pm
#11
Thread Starter
¿Dónde estoy?
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 13,330
From: my paradise - Jávea
Re: Padrón.....
it must apply to everyone else though, surely - you don't spend 'most of the year' in a holiday home - if you did you'd be a resident....
Dec 3rd 2012 | 10:13 pm
#12
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Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,041
Re: Padrón.....
Well obviously the mayors want as many people as possible to register on the padrón because their govt funding is based on the number of registrants!
A lot of town hall staff and councillors haven't got a clue about the law of the land, they make it up as they go along.
A lot of town hall staff and councillors haven't got a clue about the law of the land, they make it up as they go along.
Dec 3rd 2012 | 10:19 pm
#13
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 11,231
From: Granada Costa
Re: Padrón.....
Well they have access to your bank accounts and electricity records so I find it hard to believe that they can't access the padron!
Dec 4th 2012 | 9:18 pm
#14
Forum Regular
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 87
From: Gran canaria
Re: Padrón.....
everyone in the canaries is actively encouraged to sign onto the Padron because it means they get half price travel between the islands and to the mainland Spain (not if they are flying directly to Uk etc). There was a push from the community to get people to sign on so we could get more schools etc. It was recognised that we had alot of visitors but not residents, and so only had enough school places for the few registered residents.
Dec 4th 2012 | 11:54 pm
#15
Thread Starter
¿Dónde estoy?
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 13,330
From: my paradise - Jávea
Re: Padrón.....
everyone in the canaries is actively encouraged to sign onto the Padron because it means they get half price travel between the islands and to the mainland Spain (not if they are flying directly to Uk etc). There was a push from the community to get people to sign on so we could get more schools etc. It was recognised that we had alot of visitors but not residents, and so only had enough school places for the few registered residents.
