Bri and Katee

I'm a bit in the dark about this. We've had the house for 8 years now and each year we get a message from the solicitors office that they have submitted our tax return, then some months later an amount is taken from our bank for that amount. so far so good.

How does the solicitor know it due? Does the tax office send them a demand? or do they just fill out the form (is it a 210?) and submit it with our details on at the correct time?

I'm looking to stop paying it through this solicitor and move to a new firm closer to us- one that we can actually get in and see someone instead of makiing a 140 mile round trip to Torrevieja.

I simply want to know if its a case of telling the old firm we know longer want to use them by letter and informing the new firm to do it, or are we into yet more form filling and petty officialdom?

njf

I imagine they check the cadastral value each year (which you can find on your IBI invoice which you get each year from the ayuntamiento) and then they can fill in the form. You should be able to do the 210 yourself or there are many cheaper options than using a lawyer. I used to use someone who I found on the internet (I can give you the details if you want to PM me) who charged £35 (or £50 for a couple). I found it very convenient. I think there people who do it even more cheaply and, as I say, you might be able to do it yourself.

And you should only need to tell your previous lawyer that you no longer want them to deal with it. No officialdom needed.

lutonlad

Funnily enough our solicitor is also in Torry - maybe the same one !

Actually I think it's the other way round. Our solicitor takes our money first (by DD in July) and submits the form in December. So the solicitor always collects the money first.

When you say 'some months later an amount is taken from our bank' - I think that is probably for the next years payment.

Bri and Katee

Our solicitor is Abaco whom we have trusted since the house purchase, until this week. It seems that their checks were not as thorough as it seemed at the time.

Our house along with a second one was built on a plot of land that was sub divided into two plots (one each) of 10.000 square metres per plot, no problem everything straight forward.

Except the paperwork for the sub division was never completed by the builder or so it seems after attending the townhall this week. we have never been asked for IBI even though we request it each year and on more than one occasion several times each year.

This week we went in to sort it once and for all, we don't like owing any tax! The townhall architect looked at the escritura and then at the catastral map shrugged his shoulders and told us to get our own architect to redraw the property boundaries and re-map the house and submit it. All this is going to cost us around 2 grand + whatever we owe for back tax. This should have all been picked up by Abaco at purchase time, their answer was 'not our problem, but we can act for you and sort it out' when I phoned them!

So I am now in the process of getting that done, but want to withdraw all my custom from them, such a let down, especially having to pay twice for what should have been done already.

lutonlad

Most of the negative reports about Spanish solicitors are to do with negligence one way or another.

However it can be worse than that.
I had an experience with a Spanish solicitor (not my current one) some years ago that was blatant robbery. He kept money from our property sale, way above his quoted fee. When I complained he asked me what I was going to do about it, go to the Police? As a non res and not being in Spain that much, I reluctantly gave up - knowing how difficult and expensive any litigation would be.

jonboy

Hi Bri and Katee,
You do not say that you sign the Tax documents prior to them being submitted on your behalf. Perhaps you have given your solicitor some form of "Power of Attorney"? If so then it maybe best to revoke that at the earliest opportunity.

bobd22

It is very easy to do this yourself from this is a link to follow from another forum. All you need to do is follow the links etc on the instructions. Complete the form online and print off. Then sign the forms take them to bank when in Spain and pay. Works really well and very easy. I have done it a couple of times with no problems.

View topic - Non-resident imputed income tax - Form 210 - Andalucia.com FAQ’s | Andalucia.com Forum - Andalucia users information about tourism, holiday destinations, accommodation, travel and culture in Andalucia, Spain.

Failing that if you would prefer someone else to complete the forms for you then Ihave used these in the past and had excellent service, they complete the forms and post or email them to you again sign and submit in bank when over they only charge £24.99 per property (that is irrespective of how many joint owners i.e. husband and wife means 2 sets of forms). Spanish solicitors will charge for each set of forms and are ver expensive for such a simple thing. For instance my first year they quoted nearly 300 Euros for a tax of 60 euros. I had no problem with these people and only stopped using them as I learned how to do them myself from the above link. They are called Spanish Tax Forms online.

Spanish Tax Forms Ltd: Save money! Do your own tax return.

bobd22

Just an addition you will not get a demand for Non resident tax, it is paid for the previous year so currently 2013 is due by the 31 December although you can pay it any time during the year.

snikpoh

We haven't signed anything with our gestor nor do we 'sign' any returns - mainly because all this is done electronically now so there's nothing to sign! Yet she is able to submit our forms each year with no problem.

bobd22

If you do it yourself from the link I put on then you do need to sign the forms. However your gestor as you say probably submits everything electronically as the will have the full access needed for that. However you do not need any electronic signature to complete the forms on line at the Agencia Tributaria site and print them off to submit through the bank.

jonboy

It is interesting that a third party can submit tax forms on our behalf without a proof of signature, electronically or otherwise? Imagine at a later date trying to dispute the return with the tax man! I would expect normal practice dictates evidence of approval, well maybe not in Spain?

Rosemary

Ages ago I signed a form regarding my gestor sending in my forms electronically and he said that after that I would not need to sign my tax forms again as he could now send them off using his electronic signature.

He always gains my approval before sending them.

Rosemary

shazzabob

my solictor sends them in on our behalf,always sends us a copy first telling us how much and when its going to be talken out of bank so we make sure the money is there allways a few months in advance we get the letter

bobd22

Re 3rd parties submitting the forms. This is what happened our first time. I hadn't realised but during the process of buying we had signed for solicitor to deal with tax affairs, what I hadn't realised was that this also applied to non resident tax after purchase. Anyway I did some research and realised it wasn't difficult really to do this yourself and thinking I should get my head around what I read of Spanish systems decided I would start with non resident tax. I needed the basic information from the IBI bill to do the calculations. First problem was the IBI bill addressed to our house was in fact for a different property on the street. We attended the Hacienda for the then required stickers and non resident tax forms, no problems very helpful. The Hacienda could not help re the IBI bill but pointed in the right direction to the correct office nearby. We attended there and in pigeon Spanish managed to sort the matter out and get a print of the correct IBI. We then went back home probably took around an hour to get home. I then started to complete the forms and heard my wife on the phone to someone. I asked who it was, solicitor she says. So I spoke with him he says it is time for non resident tax to be submitted he says, it was in fact November so quite early. I replied yes I know I have got the forms etc just today and am on the process of completing them to submit to bank. Oh he says we do that? I thought I could do it myself? Well yes if you know how to do it, yes I do I replied. But you may get it wrong! I doubt it as o have managed to research it and have a very clear guide on calculation and completion. But you may calculate wrong? I doubt it as I have all the information I need? Well what do you work it out to be? 60 euro, but that may be incorrect? Why I have followed the method correctly? What do you make it then? He would not give a figure just kept saying I may be wrong. OK so what it cost for you to complete and submit? 290 euro! Well I think as I have started I would like to do it myself, I am sure if anything is wrong the tax people will contact me! Well you will have to email us to say you are dealing with it he says in a grumpy voice, yes not a problem. I then completed and submitted without any issues. A couple of years later they changed to the electronic system and I was of the belief I needed an electronic signature etc to do that, woch I later found out I didn't. As a result for a few years I used the spanishtaxforms online, I found them very good and surprise surprise they calculated my tax exactly as my calculations. I have now realised it is easy to complete oneself from the link I put on earlier, print off, sign and submit and pay through the bank in Spain. It is really easy to be honest and can save one quite a bit compared with submitting through a Spanish solicitor or even gestor.

What I found really spooky about this was the speed that either the hacienda or other office where we got the IBI sorted having said I needed this info from IBI to submit non resident tax had contacted our solicitor. He was obviously on record somewhere as dealing with our taxes, big brother is watching!

SportyPorty

This is something I will also need to investigate.

I did hear someone say that this ruling for non-residents was being disputed and taken to the European court. I don't have a problem with paying the tax to be honest, although ours is only a modest property so the tax is not a huge amount.