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No Taxation without representation

No Taxation without representation

Old Feb 13th 2010, 3:33 pm
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Default No Taxation without representation

Moved from another thread

I pay taxes in UK so I don't think it unreasonable that the British Administration should have some interest in me and people like me. My taxes help pay the MPs.

I also pay taxes in Spain, where I am very important in my municipality, but only for a short time, in the run up to the local elections, in which I have a vote.
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Old Feb 13th 2010, 3:43 pm
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Default Re: No Taxation without representation

In local elections (if you are registered on the padrón, are over 18, European and have asked for the right to vote) you can not only vote... you can be voted for!
There are a few 'foreign' councillors here and there. We have one German (Mojácar) and one Brit (Zurgena) in Almería.
Of course, if we - the foreigners - were just a bit organised, we would have more 'say' in how our local community was run.
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Old Feb 13th 2010, 3:54 pm
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Default Re: No Taxation without representation

As odd as this may sound and I know I´m going to be in for a lot of flack for this I don´t want nor would I ever vote for a "foreigner" in a political team in Spain. I made a choice to come here and to live by the rules regardless of my opinion of as to these rules being to or against my advantage. Yes I sometimes do feel like a second class citizen and yes I do feel like I maybe sometimes disriminated against but this is Spain and I made the choice to come here and I don´t want Spain to change overnight but am rexpectful that things will eventualy and gradualy change for the better. Spain and the Spanish have had to make a great deal of changes over a relatively short time and I for one do not want someone trying to changeSpain into another Germany, UK, France nor any other country for that matter. Maybe this sounds daft and maybe I can be convinced to change my outlook on this.
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Old Feb 13th 2010, 4:37 pm
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Default Re: No Taxation without representation

Yes, we can vote in local and EU elections but we cannot vote in a general election however long we have lived in Spain.

Personally I cannot see why so many Ex-pats still want to exercise their right to vote in the UK (for 15 years). I would happily give up that right to be able to vote in the country which is now my home.
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Old Feb 13th 2010, 4:39 pm
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Default Re: No Taxation without representation

Originally Posted by Fred James View Post
Yes, we can vote in local and EU elections but we cannot vote in a general election however long we have lived in Spain.

Personally I cannot see why so many Ex-pats still want to exercise their right to vote in the UK (for 15 years). I would happily give up that right to be able to vote in the country which is now my home.
Same here.
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Old Feb 13th 2010, 4:41 pm
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Default Re: No Taxation without representation

Originally Posted by johncar61 View Post
Moved from another thread
I also pay taxes in Spain, where I am very important in my municipality, but only for a short time, in the run up to the local elections, in which I have a vote.
On the basis of "no taxation, no representation" why not Spanish the regional and national elections as well ? In last local elections the Brits (all 4 of us) were the "swing vote, with the new major winning by couple of votes. Enjoyed being (briefly) popular, and am now looking forward to 2012 (and more free beer).
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Old Feb 13th 2010, 5:27 pm
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Default Re: No Taxation without representation

Originally Posted by LittleWeed View Post
On the basis of "no taxation, no representation" why not Spanish the regional and national elections as well ? In last local elections the Brits (all 4 of us) were the "swing vote, with the new major winning by couple of votes. Enjoyed being (briefly) popular, and am now looking forward to 2012 (and more free beer).
In the 20 odd years I ave lived here, I have voted in every election I have been allowed to. I have even been employed (paid) for a couple of weeks by a town hall trying to trace missing foreign voters, but still after the collections we are forgotten again.
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Old Feb 13th 2010, 5:38 pm
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Default Re: No Taxation without representation

Originally Posted by johncar61 View Post
In the 20 odd years I ave lived here, I have voted in every election I have been allowed to.
Given the choice would you forego your expat vote in the UK general election for a right to vote in the Spanish national regional elections ?
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Old Feb 13th 2010, 6:33 pm
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Default Re: No Taxation without representation

Originally Posted by Fred James View Post
Yes, we can vote in local and EU elections but we cannot vote in a general election however long we have lived in Spain.

Personally I cannot see why so many Ex-pats still want to exercise their right to vote in the UK (for 15 years). I would happily give up that right to be able to vote in the country which is now my home.
I find this difficult to reconcile with your posts re. wanting a UK ID card
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Old Feb 13th 2010, 6:55 pm
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Default Re: No Taxation without representation

Originally Posted by jackytoo View Post
I find this difficult to reconcile with your posts re. wanting a UK ID card
I don't. Having an ID card is a practicality, a far better alternative to carrying your passport and documents about.
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Old Feb 13th 2010, 7:02 pm
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Default Re: No Taxation without representation

Yes I know that but a selfish point of view, you couldn't care less about the "old" country but want an ID card from them....because it's easier. Perhaps start some petitions in Spain for the national vote and a spanish ID card.
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Old Feb 14th 2010, 8:57 am
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Default Re: No Taxation without representation

Originally Posted by LittleWeed View Post
Given the choice would you forego your expat vote in the UK general election for a right to vote in the Spanish national regional elections ?
I don't have a vote in UK that was why I started this thread to highlight the position of some of us.
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Old Feb 14th 2010, 12:11 pm
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Default Re: No Taxation without representation

Originally Posted by Madridboy View Post


Doesn´t matter how many times you post this some people are still never going to get it.
Wasn´t this thread titled No Taxation without representation
? I thought we´d started other threads about cards/passports/citizenship.
Madrid. Quite right. I started this thread as a moderator was 'suggesting' quite rightly, we were going off the subject in another thread. Now its happening here !!!!!!
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Old Feb 14th 2010, 3:09 pm
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Default Re: No Taxation without representation

As a non British subject who has lived and worked in UK for more than 30 years (and paid taxes and NI, and never claimed any benefits) I would like to tell you how I feel about voting and paying tax.

For many years I felt very angry that I contributed to the UK society and was not allowed a say in the running of it.
Then I was allowed a vote in local elections. This was the first step in the right direction as I felt that at least locally I could have my say (even if this does not have a great influence on Parliamentary elections and the broader picture of governing the country).

During all those years I was however obliged to vote in my own country of origin. What a farce! How can you possibly vote for a person/party when politically parties change, in my case, new parties where created, and what these paries stand for became unknown to me. But by law I had to vote or be fined.

So why should UK citizens living abroad permanently want to vote in UK elections? I believe if you work and live in a country, that is where you should want to contribute to the governing of that country.

On the subject of ID cards, I have had an ID card all my life. I travel on this within the EU. Crossing borders and going in/out of UK. I use it here in Spain and have never had any problems with either Police/Guardia or shopkeepers. It is an official document.

The only time I need a passport is when I travel outside EU.
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Old Feb 14th 2010, 4:19 pm
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Default Re: No Taxation without representation

Originally Posted by Ex-pat View Post

So why should UK citizens living abroad permanently want to vote in UK elections?
Puzzles me too.

I believe if you work and live in a country, that is where you should want to contribute to the governing of that country.
Completely agree. After 30 years I cannot think of any good reason why you shouldn´t be able to vote not only in local but Parliamentary elections too.
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