No Smoking
 

Hi

A friend told me there is a new "No Smoking" ban on the 1st December;

Anyone confirm this (ornot as the case maybe)

Davexf

Re: No Smoking
 

The health minister is threatening to introduce a total ban but it doesn't seem to likely before next year.

http://www.typicallyspanish.com/news...le_23362.shtml

Re: No Smoking
 

Should be hysterical, considering the ´no smoking' bars currently full of chain smokers:frown:

Re: No Smoking
 

Nothing surprising there, I said a long time ago, despite all the posturing from Spain and it's smokers, that they would eventually go the same way as nearly everyone else. Just a matter of time, as usual they are still about 5 years behind the rest of the civilised world.;)

Re: No Smoking
 

mmm, I could argue they are ahead of the curve for many things:
- legalisation of gay marriages and adoption
- development of renewable energy, solar panels and windfarms
- investment into public transport and high speed trains
- tougher banking regulations than UK and US....
- remember they were one of the first to ban smoking in public places. Even though the law had a huge loophole it suceeded in getting rid of smoking in the workplace, cinemas, shopping centres, airports and many restaurants. I am able to pick from a number of non-smoking bars and restaurants in my area.

I think it must give some Brits a big ego-boost to keep saying how "behind" and "poor" Spain is. Spain is not perfect, but it is definitely not backwards.

Re: No Smoking
 

I wish I were!

Re: No Smoking
 

Well in UK not a problem of having to pick one, you know they all will be smoke free! Not sure where he gets some of his facts from, Spain one of the first in banning smoking in public places? Sweden, Norway, Netherlands, Italy, Ireland etc were all earlier.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/3758707.stm

Re: No Smoking
 

Absolutely! Both political parties in the UK have been talking about a high speed train line connecting London to Scotland, but at best they're saying it's going to be at least 2025 before it's operational. I sometimes think (in some areas) the UK's ten years behind Spain!!
As you say Cricketman, in some areas they're ahead of the game, in some areas they won't be. When we find a perfect society I'm sure we'll be told!:p

Re: No Smoking
 

Having a law and implementing it are one one thing but enforcing it is another. Our workplace is by law a non smoking place but we all smoke including the owner who pretty much chain smokes. My OH and I were talking about this yesterday and IM`OH´O not a great deal is going to change as how can the police watch every bar all day and night, especialy the more village bars where the owners and staff smoke. It's not like banning smoking on the metro which has cameras and security to (help) ward off problems, time will tell though.

Re: No Smoking
 

A high speed or lack of one in the UK is not down to backwardness.

Spain is a very big country with lots of open space, making a high speed train system very easy to design, build and finance.

So geographically Spain needed a high speed train, it makes sense to cover large distance quickly than small distance even quicker, no.

Also the space, the UK has little room for a high speed train line that would not cause A) A lot of money B) Disruption.

The lines that make a high speed train viable are already used by slower trains. Those lines that are already in use cannot be used as you need long straight lines to allow the train to reach its fast speeds.

Problem with the UK is the distance between viable locations are densely populated.

So its not a fact that Spain is ahead of the UK, it was just a very easy project, due to geography.

Its not possible to measure a countries position when both are in the developed world.

There is a sooo many factors involved, although the comment about the banks being better regulated was funny.

I`d suggest one looked at the Spanish banks books before getting too comfy, there currently on a very fine balancing act.

Northern Rock got the business from the US ahead of BBVA not because of regulation, more people connections.;)

Spanish Banks may yet make headlines.:)

Re: No Smoking
 

I'm not saying Spain is "better" than the UK. I am just saying is not "poor" and "backwards" like so many Brits on here suggest.

It is a fact that Spanish banks are more closely regulated which meant they could not dabble in dodgy investment products that were based on mortgages given to the US poor and unemployed with no income checks made on those homeowners. It was illegal for Spanish banks to invest in those products.

That is not to say Spanish banks will not have hard times in the future, but anything that happens will probably be down to their domestic housing market and the unemployment rate.

btw, UK banks didnt fail bc of the UK housing market, they failed because of over-exposure to terrible US based investments which the bankers thought would help them get-rich quick, their very own pyrimide scheme.

Re: No Smoking
 

You cannot blame US banks for the situation, the govt have made them the scape goat.

If the banks did not lend to those peeps, many would be homeless, that`s not good for politicians.

There were risk`s and rewards, the punt failed and everybody lost something.

Regulating this to never happen again will mean more people will have less, less pensions, less mortgages and loans and ultimately a worse standard of living.

The investors will look for other sources or not bother, companies will fail and jobs will be lost.

Spanish bank volume of bad debt held by banks and financing co-operatives, excluding retail credit cards, rose by 2.68 billion euros ($3.78 billion) in May from April to 81.7 billion euros.

The non-performing loans (NPL) ratio in May stood at 4.56 percent compared to 4.44 percent in April.

Spain's largest bank Santander (SAN.MC) said last month it expects to end 2009 with NPLs of around 3.5 percent, while bad debts for savings banks is expected to rise to 9 percent next year.

NPLs for the mostly unlisted, regional savings banks rose to 5.2 percent in May from 5.05 percent in April, while bad debt for retail banks rose to 3.95 percent from 3.81 percent a month earlier.

Re: No Smoking
 

I dont agree with the first half of your email, but everyone is entitled to an opinion :)

There is no social housing in the US then? That's not very civilised is it? Sounds a bit backwards to me. Luckily US citizens were civilised enough to vote in Obama to Europeanise their country. Now they're going to have a national health service, gay marriages and be mates with Cuba. Good on them!

Re: No Smoking
 

In a nutshell! Spain are great at passing laws, sh1te at implementing them. You won't get a harder smoking, drinking culture than the Scots, the Irish, Scousers etc but the law was brought in with the minimum of fuss, and nowhere have I seen it broken. If the Spanish are serious about it, it's not hard to implement, just a few hefty fines, threats of closure for locales that break the law would be sufficient.

Re: No Smoking
 

Be patient, it will happen with time. Things have improved loads already and will continue to do so. Just like with driving, Spain used to have some of the most driving deaths in Europe, now it is in the top half of the safest countries in Europe and is the country that is improving the most year-on-year.

This happened little by little. Because of their recent history, Spain does not accept fascist law enforcers unlike the UK. Instead their changes come through gentle nagging, little by little.

Re: No Smoking
 

Social housing in the US is not capable of housing the numbers who were classed as Sub Prime borrowers.

Considering bad credit issues in the US are down mainly to Health Insurance issues, hence Obama pushing a UK style Health Service and collage education funding.

The US govt could not fund the issue, lending rules were ignored and loans given to debtors who it was hoped would eventually pay along with high interest payments.

It was a punt that bought time, the US economy has and will start to recover, it was the UK who will suffer the worst, thanks to Blair and Brown.

Re: No Smoking
 

Nicely put. The UK is completely supine about obeying the rules, no matter how mad they be.

Re: No Smoking
 

One thing I particularly like about Spain is the more relaxed attitude to its laws by its people, and I hope the ‘little by little’ change takes a while. If I want a smoke-free bar or restaurant, I can find one, but if I want to smoke, there are plenty of places where I can, even though they should be smoke-free because of their size etc.

I suppose the segregated rubbish bins will be next, emptied every fortnight, instead of our bins, emptied daily, but full of anything under the sun, there was a moped in our one this morning. I lifted it out to have a look, but the wheels were buckled, so I left it at the side for the Gitanos.

George Orwell got the date wrong by 30 years.

Re: No Smoking
 

And by its property developers ;)

Re: No Smoking
 

Damn right he did. I just hope to god I'm dead by the time the nasty creeping little jobsworths take over the world.

Re: No Smoking
 

There is no way I can say anything in favour of property developers, nor the horrible agents, lawyers, bankers and all the others involved, but I was talking about the ordinary guy having a cigarette with his cortado and missing the ashtray.

Re: No Smoking
 

Me too, but I think we'll have to slow them down a bit.

Re: No Smoking
 

Got a plan? I'd say shoot them, but the environment can only cope with so much rotting meat at a time.

Re: No Smoking
 

I doubt you`ll find all rules or lack of them suit all people.

Yes the Rules in the UK are many, but I`m all for protecting my rights and enforcing them.

I`d hate to be forced by the courts to pay for a building that is illegal, which has just happened in Spain.

Living without regulations is great when your not involved, people soon change there minds when they are.

Re: No Smoking
 

Me too! I'm yet to see one!:confused:

Re: No Smoking
 

Back to the smoking ban thing, I wonder how they'll deal with all the little old men in spain who've smoked since they were kids and go to their local bars everyday as they have done for probably over half a century for a drink, chat and a smoke?? That is unfair, cruel and an invasion of their human rights when you think about their history and suppression under Franco, how dare Europe come along and do that to them! - I suppose its quite a feat for these old chaps to still be alive after all that nicotine and smoke filling their lungs, but alive and well they are!


Jo xxxx

Re: No Smoking
 

I thought it was the Tories who started deregulating the banks.....

Re: No Smoking
 

Yep.

Re: No Smoking
 

Not quite sure how you can compare Franco's acts of suppression with the minor inconvenience of smoking regulations....:confused:

The old guys still have the choice of going outside into the sunshine for a quick drag.
Also if the regulations significantly reduce their tobacco consumption,it could add years to some of their lives, in addition to the obvious financial benefit. :thumbup:

Re: No Smoking
 

I dont think they'd agree with you, nor do I think they'd accept the smoking ban and quite honestly I dont blame em. They've lived thru hell in the Franco days, a minor inconvenience is exactly that, so why shouldnt they carry on as they always have, its a minor inconvenience for a any non smokers to allow them to continue - in the local bars near me, I've yet to see any non smokers, (including the bar owners and the guardia who hide out in them) or anyone who gives a damn whether there are smokers in them! Its only the big international type bars and restaurants where it matters cos thats where the rule makers hang out and thats fair enough, but leave the old Spanish guys alone!

Jo xxx

Re: No Smoking
 

Well, speaking as one who is very badly affected by cigarette smoke, I'm damn glad to see places where I can have a tapas without getting poisoned.

I don't know what it is they put in tailor mades, but they bring on a savage headache if I breathe in a comparatively small amount of smoke. Rollies aren't nearly as bad.

Re: No Smoking
 

Chances are those little old men could have been responsible for the mass grave outside the town.

You should never judge a book by its cover, many men in Spain had blood on there hands.

Re: No Smoking
 

I'm not judging anyone, blood on their hands or not, it was a horrendous time to be living thru, so I'm simply saying that I dont think these old chaps or their local bars will take any notice of "Europe" telling em what they can and cant do when its something so trivial and they've been doing it forever!! And I dont blame em!

Jo xxx

Re: No Smoking
 

"Blood on their hands" :rolleyes:

It's always a good idea to think before you speak. The mass graves come from the Spanish civil war which was in the 1930s, so anyone involved in the fighting would now be in their 90s.

And anyway, it was kill or be killed during those times. Noone goes around saying that little old British men have blood on their hands from their fighting in the second world war

Re: No Smoking
 

Why do you believe it was an horrendous time.

Most of the old chaps tend to spend most of there time outdoors, not in bars.:o

Re: No Smoking
 

I love the way expats seem to glamourise everything about Spain, everyone loves a rogue eh? So if someone jumps a semáforo, as many do, and crashes into and kills someone, that's OK. If someone breaks into your property and ransacks it, that's OK, just kid's having fun! If someone knocks you down at a level crossing, cos they never stop, that's OK! Time to take those famous glasses off.

Re: No Smoking
 

I believe it was an horrendous time because if it wasnt then they'd remember that period of Spains glorious history with joy, laughter and celebration. They'd be monuments to the great and wonderful Franco everywhere dont you think!!

They spend their time wherever the want to, sometimes outside on benches chatting and sometimes in bars - so what???? All I'm saying is Europe should leave them alone to live out the rest of their days as they want!

Jo xxx

Re: No Smoking
 

And you're taking everything out of proportion

The UK has the highest rate of burglary, low level crime and agressive crime in Europe, DESPITE all the UK's fantastic laws.

Re: No Smoking
 

Maybe to a point, but where that view comes from IMO, is that Britain in particular has gone too far the other way!! Concequenses for peoples own actions have turned into a society always wanting someone else to blame!

The PC nanny state et al!! Altho its slowly coming to Spain

Jo xxx

Re: No Smoking
 

I wrote "Had blood on their hands" no time was mentioned and its possible some of the old men in there 90`s still live.

What about the forced labour camps in the 1950`s, they were not designed to accommodate human rights.

Also If a group of people in a town in the 1960`s decided to rally against Franco, what do you think happened to them.