There is a crisis all over Spain, and bars and such as suffering everywher.

Some members have posted that property sales are picking up due to the influx of Russians and Scandinavians, that may be true on the costas (sunnier costas) but in the parts of Spain that don´t have the expected sunny climate, these people are not interested in.

Sun and lower property prices attract expats and second home owners, lower property prices without the "terraces all year round" climate, do not attract the foreign buyer.

And as a lot of Spanish are shipping out and the low birthrate, it seems that some more northerly and away from the costa towns and villages will never recover

yep.
why did they build so many appartment complexes in Madrid too ?

the south is an animal appart. still a massive tourism (cheap and luxury tourism) and investment zone still. there's got to be still some kind of business opportunities there, again, since both sorts of tourists go there: the cheap ones with Ryan AIr and the wealthy ones.
and still socialist region , duh !

Spot on.
Sunshine and it's by-products are Spain's largest economic sector: holidaymakers, fruit/veg and property sales. When you take those out of the equation you have a country like Slovakia.

Every country has "culture" so that's not really a differentiator for Spain. And lots of countries have cheap booze, if that's the "(hic!) culture" that people are looking for.

I was going to point out that Slovakia doesn't have a coast, that Spanish people are much friendlier than most other Europeans, and a host of other things - but I've just poured myself a nice Rioja and don't really feel in the least argumentative.

I have to say this, but Oviedo seems to be absolutely buzzing at the moment. We have had an amazing September and October in terms of weather and every night the bars, restaurants and terraces are full, no matter what neighbourhood I go to.

A colleague from London visited me this last year and I took him to some bars and restaurants in the middle of the week. He couldnt believe that this was the Spain that gets such a bad press in the UK. How can a country be in crisis when the (what he thought were expensive) bars and restaurants were full?

Flats and new cars still are not selling as the bansk wont give loans and people refuse to come down in price for their properties. Quite a lot of shops and restaurants are closing but there must be several hundred restaurants here and hundreds if not thousands of shops. Where I grew up in a town about half the size of Oviedo, there were less than 10 restaurants

I guess what I am trying to say is that the economy is still rubbish, but there are a lot of people who are out every night of the week spending a lot of money, and obviously enjoying themselves

That is absolute rubbish. Tourism accounts for about 15% of the Spanish economy, that percentage is slightly higher than for London (around 12%)

And of course the richer cities are those in the North that are far from the mass tourism areas

Remember that most British people have chosen to live in the very poorest areas of Spain. It would be like a Spaniard going to live in Middlesborough or Bradford and then making a sweeping comment about the UK economy

I wonder how much that figure would increase if all the European ppl who had not only invested in property in Spain, but had also chosen to spend the vast majority of their time and MOST IF NOT ALL OF THEIR INCOME from their home countries here were included ?

That's all costs and expenses 6 to 12 months of the year.

Not a cheap 2 week package tour where lots of the income doesn't even come into the country or benefit the Spanish economy at all.

yes Spaniards even with the crisis, keep going out for drinks and eat.
but you can drink and eat very cheaply in Spain (wine + tappas ?)
they cut on other expenses (keeping cars, big appliances etc for a few more years).
has anyone seen this video ? is it a good reflection of the situation ?
here it's Granada mostly. Bourdain does good shows.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oyQ-IFBfqhM
Parts Unknown, Granada

A 10% tax on everyone's savings could work.
But only if it were applied to everyone.

Problem is, you can guarantee that the wealthiest in society, politicians, bankers and the like, will be given the nod in advance of any official cash-grab. They will get their money out just in time, just like in Cyprus, leaving everyone else to pay.

That IMF report mentioned something about grabbing the cash out of people's accounts before any opportunity for avoidance, but those at the top will always know in advance. That's why this idea won't work and why it will be so unfair.

I suppose the fact that the idea is now out in the open might prompt many savers to get their cash out now rather than later, and the fact that the idea is out in the open might just mean it's too late to implement.

I have been away for a few days!

To me it is a dead cert that this sort of raid will happen on savings. Savers are the ones with money after all. The super rich will make arrangements to move their cash out of reach in good time. As ever it will be the plebs(I call them drones) who will cough up. Haven't folk just declared all their assets over 50k? Might that be the threshold for such a tax?

I still maintain that Britain will run out of money as early as 2017 and need a bail out. Spain is horribly exposed to Portuguese debt that needs righting off for Portugal to struggle on.

The papers are full of Greece is going to come out of recession next year stories. As though that is the magic wand and they are cured. Rubbish they like most other EU countries are mired in impossible and ever increasing debt with no solution other than to clear some with a "once and for all" grab . If you look at the reported cash deposits then a grab of as little as 6% might do the trick. That would make it look quite reasonable compared with 10%.

Maybe that is the grand plan float the idea of 10% scare everyone to death then actualy take 5 or 6 % everybody feels better, nothing would surprise me when times are hard.

Plunging Greek Wages Crater Q2 Disposable Income By 9.3%, Government Borrowing Rises To Record
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-1...ng-rises-recor

in the meantime Greece keeps going down
if "that one" leaves, domino effect ?

Cyprus not doing to good either.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-0...rt-its-bailout

Slovakia is on the verge of a bailout too.

If we are to compare Spain's economy with that of the UK it should be noted that:-

a) Spain is hiding behind a strong currency that it has no control over, whilst being a financial basket case.

b) The UK is visibly dusting itself off whilst standing side by side with it's own currency, that it is in total control of. As for long term predictions, if Labour were to win the next general election, the UK would make Greece's economy look like a paragon of virtue.

Despite a weaker currency generally being seen as making a nation's products cheaper on the market, it's actually the case that Spanish export growth has been far higher than the UK in the last 2 years. So far from "hiding behind a strong currency" Spain is making valiant efforts in overcoming the disadvantages of a strong currency. They are searching out new markets and gaining contracts worldwide. The UK on the other hand has relied on QE money printing, devaluing the currency and pumping up their housing market. I have family there, and I hope the economy is not going to go pop at any moment but I genuinely fear for the place. They have lost the will to compete on the world market, and rely on the City and house bubble to pay the bills. Let's hope I'm wrong, and UK firms can start making things again.