Re: A new EU Bail-In?
 

A mere eighty years ago, the Western world ran out of money. There was no IMF at that time to advise them, and millions of people lost their lives in the wars that followed.

What choice do countries have when they run out of money? Raise money from their own citizens, or steal money from another country through war?

I can't think of another alternative.

Re: A new EU Bail-In?
 

Believe me, the current Italian shower would. In fact we are all bracing ourselves for such a move. Just as an aside, on Friday I needed to cash government bonds to help out a son. Good interest rate OK, but then they taxed at 10% the payout!

Re: A new EU Bail-In?
 

You're forgetting the current fashion, much in vogue in the UK, US and Japan of QE (ie creating money). Who knows, it may work?:confused:

Re: A new EU Bail-In?
 

But lets not forget ...... not everyone has a source of income, and saved money in the past so that when they didn't have that income their savings would see them through. So in effect taking a 10% cut from those savings can have a detrimental effect on their lives.

If you were talking about taking a larger percentage tax from high wage earners, then there is some mileage in that, but to do it straight across the board then thats different. When I was earning enough to be on high rate tax I could afford a bit extra tax, but pensioners (and there are more and more of them these days) simply can't.

Re: A new EU Bail-In?
 

the EU can't print euros like the FED does. if it did we'd be at parity
with the dollar also now.
it's a question of when not if, the "piigs" will leave the euro.
possible we end up with former currencies with devaluation taking a year to reach its bottom ( remember Argentina, in the end its currency devaluated by almost 80%), and euro for northern States and UK still out of it of course
do not hold too much euros in Spanish banks...
Taxing more pension money is a very political risk indeed these people vote...
It's certain southern Europe gvts are working hard on possible exit scenarios, weighing pro and con.

Re: A new EU Bail-In?
 

It's strange how divisive the Euro and Eurozone still is after so many years of its existence. It's highly likely that the Euro will take over from the American Dollar as the world's reserve currency possibly as soon a next year.

Yet people still talk of its demise and countries within the zone wishing to leave, which they can't anyway.

Personally I would like to get 275 Pesetas to the pound again and get rich overnight with all my other fellow expats, is this the hope where the attack against the Euro is coming from? Sign me up if it is.

Re: A new EU Bail-In?
 

well the Treaty does not include a chapter on how a State exits, true :-)
but that's all...
it's gonna happen.question is who will be the first one. Germany, Benelux etc will remain in a smaller euro.
as for the dollar, mmh, there's a limit to how far they want to risk becoming numero duo... the US want to see the eurozone break up also...if it saves the mighty dollar...
as for taxing savings, well it has to be then gradual: for instance 1% on up to 10K savings on an account, and up to 10% on those with 100K ore more. that would be a bit more fair.... but again, "we" pay for the bs of technocrats (everybody knows the Germans wanted the euro to sell more cars and industrial products to other European States) and the gigantic financial and infrastructure scandals ( saving banks ad vitam??). and these people have MBAs and other "super duper" diplomas lol

but let's be clear also: it's not entirely the fault of the euro. growth in the world has changed. to the benefit of china, india, vietnam etc
the problem is that the southern states had much much lover currencies and could play with them to help themselves. they can't now. all is in the end of Berlin. and memories are coming back (for instance the Greek want compensation for WWII damages etc).
never discount the power of History. We fought among ourselves for the last 2000 years. It can happen again. the main reason in the origin of the EC was to avoid such.
even before the Euro Spain has played with 25% unemployment (mid nineties for instance). but what is happening now is much worse, much deeper in its meaning...

Re: A new EU Bail-In?
 

I have a lot more than 100k in the bank. Why? Because I have worked very hard and paid taxes all of the way. My bonuses have been taxed at 52% here in Spain

If they took 10% of my savings, then that is almost a year's salary for me after tax. It would be like sticking me in jail for a year because I have worked too hard and saved too much.

I dont have any other assets except for my car. I dont own a house for example. Why not make all homeowners pay 5% of the value of their houses in tax each year instead? After all, the overleveraging of the house market is what has caused all of this.

I am not rich, I just have a lot of cash. There is a big difference!

Re: A new EU Bail-In?
 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/p...?frame=2240727
funny diaporama
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-0...p-of-euro.html
http://finance.fortune.cnn.com/2012/...euro-break-up/

estimated needed devaluations after the exit:
http://fortunewallstreet.files.wordp...owns_chart.jpg

Re: A new EU Bail-In?
 

Because you cannot get blood out of stone, any government with any urgency to get money for whatever reason, would go for liquid assets, cash.

What if the homeowners don´t or can´t pay the tax? homes repossessed? how will that solve the problem of the country needing cash to function ASAP

There are already millions of unsold houses and flats in Spain, so if more are ththrownnto the pot, it will not help one bit with raising finances in the short term.

Re: A new EU Bail-In?
 

me me
what is the current situation regarding the demolition of the "excess" of houses in Spain overal?
prices should/would probably drop another 10-25% over next 2Years.
depends if "exit" or not also.

Re: A new EU Bail-In?
 

There is no such plan

Actually there is currently a big swarm of US investment funds buying up 10,000s of Spanish properties on the outskirts of the big Spanish cities, which they hope to rent out to families of modest means

It is very fashionable at the moment. The investment community has been very impressed with Spain's resilience i.e. they thought that Spain would have gone bust already with lots of social unrest. This hasn't really happened and so the investors are hoping that the worst is over

The investment seems like a bad one to me. The thing is, the investment funds have to find leverage from somewhere. There is none left in shares and very little in the US or UK housing market

Re: A new EU Bail-In?
 

could be dead money indeed. there's a ton of jobless 30-50s going back living wit their pensioned parents besides. (record highs)
but as you say money is searching a spot...

Re: A new EU Bail-In?
 

TBH Sam, I don´t think that the unsold homes are being demolished,
Don´t forget a lot of flats that are unsold have sold flats where the owners live in the same block, so it would be impossible anyway.

And many people in non-expat areas are not even trying to sell- they have given up

As there is no market, they are just left to rot.

I know of lots of once were family homes, where the parents have died and the grown children have moved away to look for work so they don´t want the properties.

As there are no jobs in these places, the homes are vivirtually unsaleable.

That is the real situation for lots of Spanish heirs, as where these properties are there is not a long line of Scandinavians, Russians wanting to buy.

Most foreign buyers (although not all) are in Spain for the weather, so the centre and north are not for them. The sun is the biggest attraction no matter how many say they are here for the culture.

We could have gone back to La Coruna, where we also have a flat, but we wanted sun and the holiday feel.

I know hundreds of Spanish people who worked in other ountries, we visit a distant cousin of my OH who lives in Los Balcones Torrevieja.

His parents went to work in Belgium, and a great number of these people are now retired, Gallegos, Asturians etc, and instead of going back to their home towns, they have bought property in the "sunnier" south. They even have their own social clubs, just like bingo loving expats.

The sun is a big pull for the Spanish who also moved to colder countries, when they have their pensions, that is.:)

Re: A new EU Bail-In?
 

Me me
ok so you say the south (costa del sol) is still a breed apart, correct ?
vs middle and North.

how is the bars and restaurants situaiton in the costa ? seems a ton for sale/rent...there too there was a big glut, way too many