A new EU Bail-In?
 

Rumours of the EU imposing a 10% charge on all EU savings accounts.

Couple of links here...
http://hat4uk.wordpress.com/2013/10/...u-levy-scheme/

and here...
http://www.keeptalkinggreece.com/201...debt-problems/

It happened in Cyprus so get your money out of the banks before they rob you.

Re: A new EU Bail-In?
 

Are you saying that the tax would be on money in banks in the eurozone, so money in UK banks would be safe, or does it affect all bank accounts in the EU? if so can you imagine the reaction?
Also would it be on an amount over a certain level, like in Cyprus?

Re: A new EU Bail-In?
 

What better way of getting the EU back on its feet (and welding the individual countries closer) than a tax - maybe 8% would do the job, across all EU countries savings. The IMF could divvy it out. The EUSR mandarins like Barosa would back it in a jiffy.

Something has to be done because many countries debt is totally unsustainable including the UK where debt has continued to rocket under that idiot Osbornes guidance.

There might just be a "reversion" to the gold standard(with associated rocketting in gold prices) to sort the worldwide debt problem out.

Re: A new EU Bail-In?
 

If this ever happened, then I would go completely off the grid and never pay another penny of tax in my life (or as little as I could try and get away with)

After all, if after paying all the current taxes they still can rob you whenever they feel like it, then there really is no point, and no moral authority

That's the reason why it's not going to happen

Re: A new EU Bail-In?
 

OMG.........OMG..............OMG.

Whatever would your sister in law say, you know the tax lawyer......

I would be a bit unfair on you if they took your wonga
especally after you voluntarily handing over 30k.

I bet that slimy Jackytoo, has got all her money out......and she got away with 25k IHT. :ohmy:

Re: A new EU Bail-In?
 

If I read the article correctly, it says EU and NOT EuroZone so this would include the UK.........

Re: A new EU Bail-In?
 

It also says, discussion, so no plans at the moment, probably just someone at the IMF floating an idea.

Re: A new EU Bail-In?
 

Looks like another trip to the Caymans then:lol:

Seriously I still don't see the Euro surviving.

Re: A new EU Bail-In?
 

The only problem is any black money we want to invest in the Caymans, is all in coins.:rofl:

So the excess baggage charges would probably outweigh the tax advantages.

Re: A new EU Bail-In?
 

If it's not enough that you can get naf all interest on any savings you have, and the bankers etc screwed up our savings years ago, and they are all getting big bonus' still, now they want to put an extra tax on our savings?

I forsee general disquiet, huge money withdrawals ..... and of course an excellent way to make people who normally respect the laws to go underground ... as well as another step towards destruction of the eurozone

Re: A new EU Bail-In?
 

reading the second link it states at the beginning:

One of the latest reports from the IMF discusses a super taxation of 10% on savings in the
Eurozone. That would solve the debt problem in most sovereign countries. It would be an
alternative of higher taxes or spending cuts.


Which is just as well given the feelings in the UK re the EU, my view is if they levied this in the UK it would make sure any vote would be against staying in They say the Euro is not a disaster I think I just saw a pig fly past.

Re: A new EU Bail-In?
 

I'm not sure about the destruction of the Eurozone, it seems to be pretty well established now.

But I'm sure that if you tax people's savings in the way envisaged, then like the normally calm Cman, they will become enraged enough to lose any respect for the authorities and the law.

It's a self defeating measure by the authorities, enraged people will refuse to pay taxes and defy the law.

In extreme cases it will be back to our famous highwayman back home.

'Stand and deliver.'

Re: A new EU Bail-In?
 

Events may prove me very wrong. But I suspect these articles are exploiting people's fears and uncertainty and taking aspects of the EU's banking reform regulations and using them to create a panic.

The idea of a bail-in in the case of banks which get themselves into trouble in the future is inevitable, I think. If their own shareholders and depositors, and the senior employees drawing massive salaries and bonuses, aren't the ones who have to shoulder the burden when things go pear-shaped as a result of the bank's risky and irresponsible behaviour, banks will just go on in the same disastrous way and the taxpayers in various countries will just have to keep picking up the pieces because they are "too big to fail".


http://www.ecb.europa.eu/press/key/d...130930.en.html

Even if the IMF has floated the idea of a super-tax on savings, that wouldn't mean that countries would adopt it. Only a couple of weeks ago the IMF said that Spain should increase IVA and not have any items lower-rated, just tax everything at 21%. The Spanish Government has already said it will not do any such thing.

Wait and see, but I suspect I will be adding this one to the list of calamities that were just about to fall upon our heads - but didn't.

Re: A new EU Bail-In?
 

The games not over yet. Spains debt to GDP will reach 100% in 2014.

http://globaleconomicanalysis.blogsp...terest-on.html

Re: A new EU Bail-In?
 

And yet, Spain's borrowing costs are continuing to fall:-

http://online.wsj.com/article/BT-CO-...17-702535.html

Levels of sovereign debt are already over 100% to GDP in Greece, Italy, Portugal (and in the US too, incidentally). The world has not yet come to an end as a result.

Re: A new EU Bail-In?
 

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-1...ew-record-high
not good...

as for the tax, would it not be for accounts holding EUR 100,000+ ? as in Cyprus. that case was particular: going after dirty russian money there.

as for leaving euro, question of time. unless a miracle happens.

Re: A new EU Bail-In?
 

I don't live on another planet (I hope), but if I did I would agree with the IMF when it suggests that the only way to cut the excessive debt around the world is for each country to impose a one-off tax on its citizens to reduce it. It appears that 10% would be enough.

It could never be done with democratic assent from the majority, so it would need to be done by a direct government raid of peoples savings, right across the board, from the rich and the poor.

It can't ever happen, can it?

Re: A new EU Bail-In?
 

Another indication of improvements to come in the Spanish economy:-
http://cincodias.com/cincodias/2013/...97_434880.html

I don't think any of this points to a need to raid people's savings.

Re: A new EU Bail-In?
 

What they fail to point out is that most of the countries they are comparing with have reached pre 2008 highs. Spain has a long way to catch up...was about 15,500.

Re: A new EU Bail-In?
 

http://finance.yahoo.com/q/bc?s=EWP+Basic+Chart&t=2y
seems so.
exports and tourism going well.
"usually" the market anticipates by 6-12months what's to happen in the real economy.but let's be cautious.
if something happens next year, could fall back.http://finance.yahoo.com/q/bc?s=EWP&...=on&z=l&q=l&c=
still lower highs.

Re: A new EU Bail-In?
 

it can, and did; in Italy early 90's.

Re: A new EU Bail-In?
 

I didn't know that, but it seems right to me.

During troubled times in the past we've had Your Country Needs You and we've sent our children off to die in foreign fields.

Isn't it better to allow our government to take away 10% of our savings when they need us?

I suppose the expats have a problem with Your Country.

Re: A new EU Bail-In?
 

No

I just have a problem with the fact that I've already paid 40% tax on my income for years, Ive saved hard and worked hard so that I can accumulate funds in order that I can retire in comfort without being a burden to the country .... you know, like the governments been telling us to do for years.

Now I get no interest on my savings, the whole financial world went tits up because of useless bankers and governments ... pension annuities hit a low so your return is crap ..... and you ask isn't it better for them to take 10% more of our savings??? :)

Re: A new EU Bail-In?
 

Come on Mitzy, your country is in dire need. If you've got 100 quid in the bank, they going to nick a tenner; if you've got ten million in the bank, they're going to nick a million. It's peanuts either way.

I'm not an economic expert, but the people at the IMF are, and they've got no personal interest in what happens, they're paid to give us the best guidance possible.

Maybe the reason I'm not that concerned about losing the ten percent is that I've lost a lot more than that over the years mostly for being stupid - I didn't even get the Royal Mail shares I applied for because I left it too late.

Re: A new EU Bail-In?
 

I am confused, are you saying that it the country would have taken 10% of savings, there would have been not war involving the UK?

Or that if they take 10% of savings then no more boys will lose their lives in wars?

I don´t think there is an "either/or" choice.

The 10% is not to save soldiers and conscripts lives, it is to enable banks to keep paying the chiefs a big big bonus.:thumbdown:

Re: A new EU Bail-In?
 

I was making the point, badly on reflection, that in past times of economic woes, countries went to war to replenish their treasury.

I'm pushed to think of a suitable example because it's late, but Spain replenished their treasury by raiding the Aztec gold.

I'm trying to explain the spoils of war, but I've had a long day.

Re: A new EU Bail-In?
 

I dont think you'll find that to be the general attitude to it, and I further feel that ANY government of the UK that allows that to happen will NEVER get into power again.

I dont regard that an extra 10% tax on my hard earned savings is peanuts and neither will many others

Re: A new EU Bail-In?
 

again the cyprus was particular imho: its public knowledge the russians
were putting money there, tax evasion.
http://www.businessweek.com/articles...-suspicious-eu

Re: A new EU Bail-In?
 

If I for one minute believed that such a measure would significantly reduce the overall debt of the EU enabling member states to prosper then I would in all likelihood support such a move.

I doubt any EU Government would risk political suicide with such a crass and unfair model.

Re: A new EU Bail-In?
 

Usually the people supporting this pay FA:lol:

Re: A new EU Bail-In?
 

A mere eighty years ago, the Western world ran out of money. There was no IMF at that time to advise them, and millions of people lost their lives in the wars that followed.

What choice do countries have when they run out of money? Raise money from their own citizens, or steal money from another country through war?

I can't think of another alternative.

Re: A new EU Bail-In?
 

Believe me, the current Italian shower would. In fact we are all bracing ourselves for such a move. Just as an aside, on Friday I needed to cash government bonds to help out a son. Good interest rate OK, but then they taxed at 10% the payout!

Re: A new EU Bail-In?
 

You're forgetting the current fashion, much in vogue in the UK, US and Japan of QE (ie creating money). Who knows, it may work?:confused:

Re: A new EU Bail-In?
 

But lets not forget ...... not everyone has a source of income, and saved money in the past so that when they didn't have that income their savings would see them through. So in effect taking a 10% cut from those savings can have a detrimental effect on their lives.

If you were talking about taking a larger percentage tax from high wage earners, then there is some mileage in that, but to do it straight across the board then thats different. When I was earning enough to be on high rate tax I could afford a bit extra tax, but pensioners (and there are more and more of them these days) simply can't.

Re: A new EU Bail-In?
 

the EU can't print euros like the FED does. if it did we'd be at parity
with the dollar also now.
it's a question of when not if, the "piigs" will leave the euro.
possible we end up with former currencies with devaluation taking a year to reach its bottom ( remember Argentina, in the end its currency devaluated by almost 80%), and euro for northern States and UK still out of it of course
do not hold too much euros in Spanish banks...
Taxing more pension money is a very political risk indeed these people vote...
It's certain southern Europe gvts are working hard on possible exit scenarios, weighing pro and con.

Re: A new EU Bail-In?
 

It's strange how divisive the Euro and Eurozone still is after so many years of its existence. It's highly likely that the Euro will take over from the American Dollar as the world's reserve currency possibly as soon a next year.

Yet people still talk of its demise and countries within the zone wishing to leave, which they can't anyway.

Personally I would like to get 275 Pesetas to the pound again and get rich overnight with all my other fellow expats, is this the hope where the attack against the Euro is coming from? Sign me up if it is.

Re: A new EU Bail-In?
 

well the Treaty does not include a chapter on how a State exits, true :-)
but that's all...
it's gonna happen.question is who will be the first one. Germany, Benelux etc will remain in a smaller euro.
as for the dollar, mmh, there's a limit to how far they want to risk becoming numero duo... the US want to see the eurozone break up also...if it saves the mighty dollar...
as for taxing savings, well it has to be then gradual: for instance 1% on up to 10K savings on an account, and up to 10% on those with 100K ore more. that would be a bit more fair.... but again, "we" pay for the bs of technocrats (everybody knows the Germans wanted the euro to sell more cars and industrial products to other European States) and the gigantic financial and infrastructure scandals ( saving banks ad vitam??). and these people have MBAs and other "super duper" diplomas lol

but let's be clear also: it's not entirely the fault of the euro. growth in the world has changed. to the benefit of china, india, vietnam etc
the problem is that the southern states had much much lover currencies and could play with them to help themselves. they can't now. all is in the end of Berlin. and memories are coming back (for instance the Greek want compensation for WWII damages etc).
never discount the power of History. We fought among ourselves for the last 2000 years. It can happen again. the main reason in the origin of the EC was to avoid such.
even before the Euro Spain has played with 25% unemployment (mid nineties for instance). but what is happening now is much worse, much deeper in its meaning...

Re: A new EU Bail-In?
 

I have a lot more than 100k in the bank. Why? Because I have worked very hard and paid taxes all of the way. My bonuses have been taxed at 52% here in Spain

If they took 10% of my savings, then that is almost a year's salary for me after tax. It would be like sticking me in jail for a year because I have worked too hard and saved too much.

I dont have any other assets except for my car. I dont own a house for example. Why not make all homeowners pay 5% of the value of their houses in tax each year instead? After all, the overleveraging of the house market is what has caused all of this.

I am not rich, I just have a lot of cash. There is a big difference!

Re: A new EU Bail-In?
 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/p...?frame=2240727
funny diaporama
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-0...p-of-euro.html
http://finance.fortune.cnn.com/2012/...euro-break-up/

estimated needed devaluations after the exit:
http://fortunewallstreet.files.wordp...owns_chart.jpg

Re: A new EU Bail-In?
 

Because you cannot get blood out of stone, any government with any urgency to get money for whatever reason, would go for liquid assets, cash.

What if the homeowners don´t or can´t pay the tax? homes repossessed? how will that solve the problem of the country needing cash to function ASAP

There are already millions of unsold houses and flats in Spain, so if more are ththrownnto the pot, it will not help one bit with raising finances in the short term.