New book claims Hitler died in south America
Oct 22nd 2011, 5:00 am
#16
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Re: New book claims Hitler died in south America
unless time travel comes along over the next few decades we might as well accept the official line and all others as being pure speculation if not lies.
it will only please those who have been brought up to revere the madman who gave the Germans a false pride in themselves after WWI, who thought GB would accept what happened on the other side of the N Sea and Channel so long as he didnt try to come over.
Perhaps that shows we were good europeans before it the EU existed.
it will only please those who have been brought up to revere the madman who gave the Germans a false pride in themselves after WWI, who thought GB would accept what happened on the other side of the N Sea and Channel so long as he didnt try to come over.
Perhaps that shows we were good europeans before it the EU existed.
Oct 22nd 2011, 9:11 am
#17
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Re: New book claims Hitler died in south America
Russian actually, the Soviets only stopped at Berlin because that's where the allied front line was. If the German's had still occupied the whole of europe then Stalin would've marched right across europe.
A question for you Bil. We declared war on Germany because they invaded Poland, but Russia also invaded Poland. So why did we not declare war on Russia too?
A question for you Bil. We declared war on Germany because they invaded Poland, but Russia also invaded Poland. So why did we not declare war on Russia too?
Oct 22nd 2011, 9:13 am
#18
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Re: New book claims Hitler died in south America
Russian actually, the Soviets only stopped at Berlin because that's where the allied front line was. If the German's had still occupied the whole of europe then Stalin would've marched right across europe.
A question for you Bil. We declared war on Germany because they invaded Poland, but Russia also invaded Poland. So why did we not declare war on Russia too?
A question for you Bil. We declared war on Germany because they invaded Poland, but Russia also invaded Poland. So why did we not declare war on Russia too?
Had the channel not been there the Nazis would have had us after France, despite all the sacrifices the Russians made later on.
Oct 22nd 2011, 9:19 am
#19
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Re: New book claims Hitler died in south America
This is what really happened
Oct 22nd 2011, 9:28 am
#20
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Re: New book claims Hitler died in south America
In 1939 the British army consisted of just 9 divisions, Germany had 78. Sounds pretty mental to me!
Hitler never wanted to invade Britain, he was an admirer of the British empire (especially our use of concentration camps) & wanted to be allies with us. All he wanted was Churchill out so that he could work with the British people. He believed that without Churchill the British public would change their minds & welcome national socialism
Hitler never wanted to invade Britain, he was an admirer of the British empire (especially our use of concentration camps) & wanted to be allies with us. All he wanted was Churchill out so that he could work with the British people. He believed that without Churchill the British public would change their minds & welcome national socialism
Oct 22nd 2011, 10:14 am
#21
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Re: New book claims Hitler died in south America
In 1939 the British army consisted of just 9 divisions, Germany had 78. Sounds pretty mental to me!
Hitler never wanted to invade Britain, he was an admirer of the British empire (especially our use of concentration camps) & wanted to be allies with us. All he wanted was Churchill out so that he could work with the British people. He believed that without Churchill the British public would change their minds & welcome national socialism
Hitler never wanted to invade Britain, he was an admirer of the British empire (especially our use of concentration camps) & wanted to be allies with us. All he wanted was Churchill out so that he could work with the British people. He believed that without Churchill the British public would change their minds & welcome national socialism
Oct 22nd 2011, 10:35 am
#22
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Re: New book claims Hitler died in south America
Churchill was in favour of the Allied forces pressing on much further.
He warned Roosevelt in advance about the risk to areas that eventually ended up under Soviet control.
However either Roosevelt ignored his warning or didn't see it as his problem and so went along with Stalin, leaving Churchill in a minority of one.
Basically the US was partly to blame for leaving much of Europe incarcerated under Soviet control.
Oct 22nd 2011, 11:43 am
#23
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Re: New book claims Hitler died in south America
Another interesting possible scenario is how the war in Russia would have panned out, but for the UK success in the Battle of Britain.
Firstly this left Germany with a drastic shortage of both aircraft and trained pilots to fully back up their Russian offensive as well as they would have wished and this undoubtedly had a detrimental effect on proceedings.
Secondly and possibly more crucially, it left Germany in a situation of having to be prepared to defend the W.European coast all the way from the North of Norway to the South of France.
An absolutely massive undertaking in its own right, even without their involvement in Russia.
Little doubt that the huge back up of forces and equipment tied up throughout the whole of that W.European border as well as N.Africa would have been more than enough to swing the fine balance, in what was a damned close run thing anyway, in Germanys favour against the Russians.
After that who knows ?
It was the case that Germany declared war on the US, not vice versa, a fact that many ppl overlook.
So had Germany prevailed in the Battle of Britain and then taken Russia, the US may have eventually had to defend themselves on their home soil, having no available base in Europe.
Whilst the US had massive strength in depth, the Germans were far more technologically advanced in many ways and also may well have had the first long range rockets as well as the first atom bombs, which the US were only able to develop from technology passed on by the UK.
It's very difficult to say what the eventual outcome would have been, but for the Battle of Britain and how the World map might have appeared today.
As Churchill said, never in the field of human conflict was so much owed by so many to so few.
I often wonder when I hear those words whether he was actually considering the possibility of the above scenario or simply referring to the UK.
Firstly this left Germany with a drastic shortage of both aircraft and trained pilots to fully back up their Russian offensive as well as they would have wished and this undoubtedly had a detrimental effect on proceedings.
Secondly and possibly more crucially, it left Germany in a situation of having to be prepared to defend the W.European coast all the way from the North of Norway to the South of France.
An absolutely massive undertaking in its own right, even without their involvement in Russia.
Little doubt that the huge back up of forces and equipment tied up throughout the whole of that W.European border as well as N.Africa would have been more than enough to swing the fine balance, in what was a damned close run thing anyway, in Germanys favour against the Russians.
After that who knows ?
It was the case that Germany declared war on the US, not vice versa, a fact that many ppl overlook.
So had Germany prevailed in the Battle of Britain and then taken Russia, the US may have eventually had to defend themselves on their home soil, having no available base in Europe.
Whilst the US had massive strength in depth, the Germans were far more technologically advanced in many ways and also may well have had the first long range rockets as well as the first atom bombs, which the US were only able to develop from technology passed on by the UK.
It's very difficult to say what the eventual outcome would have been, but for the Battle of Britain and how the World map might have appeared today.
As Churchill said, never in the field of human conflict was so much owed by so many to so few.
I often wonder when I hear those words whether he was actually considering the possibility of the above scenario or simply referring to the UK.
Oct 22nd 2011, 11:49 am
#24
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Re: New book claims Hitler died in south America
Another interesting possible scenario is how the war in Russia would have panned out, but for the UK success in the Battle of Britain.
Firstly this left Germany with a drastic shortage of both aircraft and trained pilots to fully back up their Russian offensive as well as they would have wished and this undoubtedly had a detrimental effect on proceedings.
Secondly and possibly more crucially, it left Germany in a situation of having to be prepared to defend the W.European coast all the way from the North of Norway to the South of France.
An absolutely massive undertaking in its own right, even without their involvement in Russia.
Little doubt that the huge back up of forces and equipment tied up throughout the whole of that W.European border as well as N.Africa would have been more than enough to swing the fine balance, in what was a damned close run thing anyway, in Germanys favour against the Russians.
After that who knows ?
It was the case that Germany declared war on the US, not vice versa, a fact that many ppl overlook.
So had Germany prevailed in the Battle of Britain and then taken Russia, the US may have eventually had to defend themselves on their home soil, having no available base in Europe.
Whilst the US had massive strength in depth, the Germans were far more technologically advanced in many ways and also may well have had the first long range rockets as well as the first atom bombs, which the US were only able to develop from technology passed on by the UK.
It's very difficult to say what the eventual outcome would have been, but for the Battle of Britain and how the World map might have appeared today.
As Churchill said, never in the field of human conflict was so much owed by so many to so few.
I often wonder when I hear those words whether he was actually considering the possibility of the above scenario or simply referring to the UK.
Firstly this left Germany with a drastic shortage of both aircraft and trained pilots to fully back up their Russian offensive as well as they would have wished and this undoubtedly had a detrimental effect on proceedings.
Secondly and possibly more crucially, it left Germany in a situation of having to be prepared to defend the W.European coast all the way from the North of Norway to the South of France.
An absolutely massive undertaking in its own right, even without their involvement in Russia.
Little doubt that the huge back up of forces and equipment tied up throughout the whole of that W.European border as well as N.Africa would have been more than enough to swing the fine balance, in what was a damned close run thing anyway, in Germanys favour against the Russians.
After that who knows ?
It was the case that Germany declared war on the US, not vice versa, a fact that many ppl overlook.
So had Germany prevailed in the Battle of Britain and then taken Russia, the US may have eventually had to defend themselves on their home soil, having no available base in Europe.
Whilst the US had massive strength in depth, the Germans were far more technologically advanced in many ways and also may well have had the first long range rockets as well as the first atom bombs, which the US were only able to develop from technology passed on by the UK.
It's very difficult to say what the eventual outcome would have been, but for the Battle of Britain and how the World map might have appeared today.
As Churchill said, never in the field of human conflict was so much owed by so many to so few.
I often wonder when I hear those words whether he was actually considering the possibility of the above scenario or simply referring to the UK.
would Britain have been in a better state if they hadnt run those convoys. diverting supplies much needed in country at the time ?
Oct 22nd 2011, 6:17 pm
#25
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Re: New book claims Hitler died in south America
Apologies for cock-up in post 22 which should commence,..
The Allies stopped before Berlin.....
As for your two queries Domino, I wouldn't like to hazard a guess at exactly what difference they would have made.
The Allies stopped before Berlin.....
As for your two queries Domino, I wouldn't like to hazard a guess at exactly what difference they would have made.
Oct 22nd 2011, 8:06 pm
#26
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Re: New book claims Hitler died in south America
The Yanks came in late, almost too late, and now take all the credit.
We didn't really win the battle of Britain, we survived it. That was enough to delay the proposed invasion of Britain.
First line of credit goes to the English Channel, because without it, we would have been overrun by the Germans long before the US realised there was a problem.
Second credit goes to the Russians, because without their sacrifice, we would never have been able to invade continental europe.
Third to the fact that Germany was insane enough to attack Russia.
Had Germany taken us out when he could, told Russia and Japan to split China between them, and settled down to occupy Africa, India, Europe and the middle east with all its oil, and completed work on their long range delivery and the atmic bomb, they could have had the world.
We didn't really win the battle of Britain, we survived it. That was enough to delay the proposed invasion of Britain.
First line of credit goes to the English Channel, because without it, we would have been overrun by the Germans long before the US realised there was a problem.
Second credit goes to the Russians, because without their sacrifice, we would never have been able to invade continental europe.
Third to the fact that Germany was insane enough to attack Russia.
Had Germany taken us out when he could, told Russia and Japan to split China between them, and settled down to occupy Africa, India, Europe and the middle east with all its oil, and completed work on their long range delivery and the atmic bomb, they could have had the world.
Oct 22nd 2011, 11:26 pm
#27
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Re: New book claims Hitler died in south America
The Yanks came in late, almost too late, and now take all the credit.
We didn't really win the battle of Britain, we survived it. That was enough to delay the proposed invasion of Britain.
First line of credit goes to the English Channel, because without it, we would have been overrun by the Germans long before the US realised there was a problem.
Second credit goes to the Russians, because without their sacrifice, we would never have been able to invade continental europe.
Third to the fact that Germany was insane enough to attack Russia.
Had Germany taken us out when he could, told Russia and Japan to split China between them, and settled down to occupy Africa, India, Europe and the middle east with all its oil, and completed work on their long range delivery and the atmic bomb, they could have had the world.
We didn't really win the battle of Britain, we survived it. That was enough to delay the proposed invasion of Britain.
First line of credit goes to the English Channel, because without it, we would have been overrun by the Germans long before the US realised there was a problem.
Second credit goes to the Russians, because without their sacrifice, we would never have been able to invade continental europe.
Third to the fact that Germany was insane enough to attack Russia.
Had Germany taken us out when he could, told Russia and Japan to split China between them, and settled down to occupy Africa, India, Europe and the middle east with all its oil, and completed work on their long range delivery and the atmic bomb, they could have had the world.
Hitler was one of those leaders who believed he was omnipotent. If he said jump no one asked how high they just jumped.
So when he suggested duplicating the military folly of Napolean in taking on Russia, at the wrong time of the year to boot, it as usual was the fault of the military and not the madman who sent them. ISTR he said words to that effect to the General in charge at the time when he asked for more troops and supplies.
without Germany invading Russia it is unlikely that Russia would have become the power that it became.
Oct 23rd 2011, 1:10 am
#28
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Re: New book claims Hitler died in south America
Someone I banned did one about the mods on Spain a couple of years ago, it was taken off youtube though for being too naughty.
Oct 23rd 2011, 1:49 am
#29
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Re: New book claims Hitler died in south America
Hitler was one of those leaders who believed he was omnipotent. If he said jump no one asked how high they just jumped.
So when he suggested duplicating the military folly of Napolean in taking on Russia, at the wrong time of the year to boot, it as usual was the fault of the military and not the madman who sent them. ISTR he said words to that effect to the General in charge at the time when he asked for more troops and supplies.
without Germany invading Russia it is unlikely that Russia would have become the power that it became.
So when he suggested duplicating the military folly of Napolean in taking on Russia, at the wrong time of the year to boot, it as usual was the fault of the military and not the madman who sent them. ISTR he said words to that effect to the General in charge at the time when he asked for more troops and supplies.
without Germany invading Russia it is unlikely that Russia would have become the power that it became.
Reading it, I thought how lucky we were that Hitler was mad.
Oct 23rd 2011, 3:48 am
#30
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Re: New book claims Hitler died in south America
All the US did was help shorten the war. By the time they got involved we had fought off our own invasion & kicked Rommel out of North Africa. On the eastern front the Soviets had taken the upper hand & turned the course of war. How can the yanks claim they won when the course of war had already turned against Germany before they even got involved.
As for all the comments about the eastern front. One of the greatest debates will be whether Stalin was a tactical genius & waited for the Germans to get stuck by the weather & held up by their own supply lines, before unleashing the Siberians, or whether it really was an act of desperation?
Stalin dismantled the entire Soviet manufacturing industry & moved it east across the Ural mountains away from the front lines. This suggests that he accepted that the Germans were going to advance several 1,000 miles into Russia before he was able to stop them. When the Siberians finally did attack, the were a fantastically organised, equipped & prepared force that decimated everything in front of them. It has to be concluded therefore that Stalin allowed the Germans to advance while he mobilised his troops.
As for all the comments about the eastern front. One of the greatest debates will be whether Stalin was a tactical genius & waited for the Germans to get stuck by the weather & held up by their own supply lines, before unleashing the Siberians, or whether it really was an act of desperation?
Stalin dismantled the entire Soviet manufacturing industry & moved it east across the Ural mountains away from the front lines. This suggests that he accepted that the Germans were going to advance several 1,000 miles into Russia before he was able to stop them. When the Siberians finally did attack, the were a fantastically organised, equipped & prepared force that decimated everything in front of them. It has to be concluded therefore that Stalin allowed the Germans to advance while he mobilised his troops.
