Hello everyone,

I hope someone will be able to help with a question I have regarding a permanent resident certificate. I currently live in the UK but would like to move back to Spain (which I left around 10 years ago). I still have my EU green permanent residence certificate, have kept my house there and visit a couple of times a year. The guidance on the Moncloa web site says that a permanent residence certificate can simply be exchanged for a T.I,E (no need for other docs), although I have an uncomfortable feeling it may not be as simple as that. I'd like to get a clearer idea of my position before moving back, so any advice or experiences would be much appreciated!

I think if I were you I would seek proper advice. My understanding (not certain) but I thought a permanent resident with Green card could be absent from Spain for up to 3 years. Being permanent resident with a TIE you can be absent from Spain up to 5 years and Temporary Resident can be absent up to 6 months? I would think to claim to have been resident they would expect a resident tax return for years claiming to be resident or an explication why no tax return. I can't see how you would be able to now swap a green resident card for TIE given you have been non resident for over the allowed time? I may be wrong but only way you will know for sure is with proper legal advice. Are you intending to live in Spain full time now or hoping to get around the new rules re schengen? Hopefully someone will come back to you with a more definitive answer rather than just my understanding of the rules.

Unfortunately you have been absent from Spain too long to qualify for a TIE exchange in theory. Since Brexit permanent residents of 5 years or more can be absent for 5 years which is more than normall EU members get ( 2 years). You could try and see if you can do it by making an appointment and signing signing on padron - you never know. The tax department is not linked to immigration so I dont think they automatically check on tax returns. Normally to get the TIE you just need proof of legal residence ( ie green card prior to Brexir) an address, and padron, photos, paid stamp. You certainly dont require to present anything else or though I assume they would do some kind of check. Give it a go.

Yes I agree - give it a go. From memory when I exchanged my green form for a TIE the system would not have sussed if I had been away - but I also agree 'officially' this is probably against the rules.

What documents are required?

• Passport
• 2 passport size photos
• Administrative tax 790 (to prove application fee paid)
• EX20 application form (we provide it)
• Certificate of registration (“certificado de empadronamiento histórico”-“volante” is not accepted) from the Town Hall, no older than three months and will have to prove that you have been registered since before 2021.
• NIE (if you have one)

https://expatsmagazine.org/tie-card-...esidence-card/

Thank you, that is a very clear summary. I also see that further on in the article they specifically cover the permanent residence certificate. The certificate residence alone may be sufficient, no need to present a padron. Certainly does seem to be worth a try,

OK, folks listen up!

With the benefit of 22 years of experience here - if something is stated as 'required' and you have it ALWAYS take it with you (and a photocopy!!) if you don't need it great but if you do you have just saved a return visit and wait.

What I am saying is a well-known 'fact' of Spanish life as I am sure every experienced expat with agree with!

Velez earlier this year, we had all that even a fresh Empadronamiento printed the day before. Clerk wanted to see, and RETAINED a Copia Simple.
No point in discussing it.
TIE issued otherwise painlessly;

Absolutely 100% agree. When we first applied for residency we took a case full and copies of paperwork with us even though some of it wasn't particularly asked for. Better safe than sorry 😏

Steve

If you do get a TIE card how will you explain not making any tax contributions for 10 years? If you say you weren't living in spain then they will ask how you changed to a permanent TIE? You are potentially opening yourself up to an investigation at some point by either the tax man or immigration

Yes by the book you are - but the TIE functionario will not ask about taxes....get the card and pay tax next year...everyone is a winner.

My comment wasn't relating to the TIE functionario wanting to see information re taxes. It was more that once the TIE is issued tax authorities could investigate why no income tax has been recorded in the last 10 years? If that happens the OP could face difficulties explain how they have been actually non resident for 10 years yet using a system for those legally resident. If that were the case then it could be deemed a fraudulent residency application. As I said in my first reply these are just thoughts that would concern me and why I suggested seeking legal advice. It may as you say work by just going through the simple exchange procedure.

Thank you everyone for taking the time to reply. That has been interesting and helpful reading, especially hearing posters own experiences with the system. One point I should perhaps clarify - I submitted tax returns whilst resident in Spain and changed to non-resident returns on returning to the UK, so the Spanish tax man knows exactly where to find me (gulp) 😱 I couldn't claim to have been resident continuously up to BREXIT. Instead I am looking at how far that phrase "permanent residence shall be lost only through absence... for a period exceeding two consecutive years" can be stretched During my googling I came across a blog by Steve Peers (Prof of EU Law) which suggested that this right of return can extended indefinely by a holiday every 2 years;

h**p://eulawanalysis.blogspot.com/2022/01/

This might be a bit of a grey area, but I think it is worth giving it a go (taking along with multiple copies of every document I can find!)

Yes give it a go, take everything, say nothing unless asked and let us know how it works out!

There has been a ruling recently that someone had published here that said that the 5 year absence for Brits from EU countries ( must have a permanent residency status) always returned to zero if they returned to the country during the 5 year absence even if only for a visit. This implies you can be absent for as long as you want as long as you go there sometime during the 5 years.

Excellent advice! 😂