Is my move realistic?
 

Hi
I've just joined the forum as I am really determined to move to Spain from the UK but I would like to ask those already living there - what is a realistic income for one person? I will have the cash to buy a house outright and I won't be working. I'm looking in the Costa Tropical area.

Re: Is my move realistic?
 

Hi, welcome to BE.

Can't help with realistic income, but obviously now the UK has left the EU you'll need a visa, and to meet the financial requirements for that. Here is a recent post with some info on the amount you'll need in annual income to qualify - https://britishexpats.com/forum/spai.../#post12961132. If you do a forum search you'll find other threads with info on the visa eligibility requirements.

Others will be along to help with more info shortly I'm sure.

Best of luck.

Re: Is my move realistic?
 

Those of us already here have not been through the new system which has obviously changed dramatically now UK is non-EU -

Worth a look here
https://www.pellicerheredia.com/en/n...SAAEgJz3vD_BwE

Re: Is my move realistic?
 

Hola,

I've been here for nearly eighteen years and for whatever reason, i have just completed an analysis of my last three months spending.

Remember I am under lockdown; I am not shielding but I do avoid crowds and keep my bubble small so I would say I save a hundred euros a month - possibly.

I spend on average 1,000 euros a month on "living" a fairly comfortable life in one of the cheapest parts of Spain. Therefore a single person (like me) would need more to live in a better area, and more if going out is your thing

Davexf

Re: Is my move realistic?
 

Re: Is my move realistic?
 

Rent before you buy would be my first bit of advice I`d give from personal experience and that of others .

Re: Is my move realistic?
 

Yeah! - I'll run with Rotor, rent before you buy. You can test the water, experience the change and in a few short weeks will discover if Spain is for you. You're not the first and won't be the last to move to Spain. But, be realistic in your outlook.

Re: Is my move realistic?
 

Why buy when you can rent ?
Escape from the fixation of being a property-owner.

Re: Is my move realistic?
 

I agree to rent at first but if you fall in love with Spain try and buy and enjoy the security and peace of mind of not having a landlord - it probably won't appreciate at the same rates as a UK property investment but hey it's about quality of life right.

Re: Is my move realistic?
 

Id agree with Rotor and Leeper.

Rent Rent Rent.

It took us 10 years to buy somewhere (and we know this area really well have family and friends already here)
You need to research, visit the area at different times of the day, night, month etc.
We looked at a perfect place in Finestrat until we went back at about 6pm and there were hundreds (maybe not) of kids running around.
The place we are now in gets the sun through the back windows in the morning and on the balcony in the afternoon. The same flat round the corner gets the sun streaming in all day (and none of them lift their shutters in the summer) So position with the sun is important.
Cold, don't let anyone tell you it don't get cold here. No heating, rattling double glazing and solid concrete floors, walls and ceiling...

Income wise, we are living well on about 70% of our Uk money. Most outgoings are comparable but some stuff can be cheaper. Depends what kind of lifestyle you want. And we are living in the same sort of property and doing much the same things (except for tapa, meal of the day, and out a couple more times in the week)

Last year someone on here asked if 3000 euro a month was enough (funny as I didn't have that much in the Uk) Its what you can live on.

Although at the end of the day it will be what Spain expects you to need (visa rules mean something like 24k or more before you start)

Re: Is my move realistic?
 

Financially and considering legal problems Spain is not a good country to own property in compared with owning property in the UK if you are a UK citizen , if you have the capital to buy a house outright better to buy a Buy to Let in the UK and use the rent money for a rental in Spain , that said owning a house in Spain can be a pleasant lifestyle choice if you are financially secure , just dont expect to be able to sell it quickly and for a profit like you can in the UK should you have/want to , selling can take years and many take a considerable hit on what they paid.

Re: Is my move realistic?
 

I bought first, but sold after a year, luckily just before the bubble burst, and then rented, and would advise people to rent not buy.

Re: Is my move realistic?
 

Please say that includes a mortgage or rent!!!!!!!!

We spend around €11-1200 but that includes nearly €600 in rent and utilities. We don't live 'uncomfortably'!

Re: Is my move realistic?
 

You and your partner live on €400 / month after paying rent and utilities :ohmy: ?

Re: Is my move realistic?
 

A thousand a month is the average wage in spain, for a 'normal' job.

I would say we 'need' about the same, any extra is savings (and we have 2 cars, but can always save 'something' each month

Re: Is my move realistic?
 

I think I need a lesson from some of you guys. I consider myself very frugal and was going to suggest the minumum visa requirement of 27k would be about right to live to a minimal standard. I just had a quick scan of my statement and excluded anything to do with leisure and I came to nearly 1000 per month, without rent and we don't drink at home. Granted that's 2 of us but the only difference if it were just one us would be a slight drop in groceries. I can't even see a payment for gas but I'm sure it will average around 75 per month over the year.
Groceries 600
Electricity 60
Water 55
Gas ?
Vodafone 85
Fuel 30
Netflix 10
Amazon 6
Spotify 15
Car Insurance 52
Home insurance 25
Banking 10

Re: Is my move realistic?
 

I would comment change your comms service 85€ seems OTT. Amazon Prime 6€ a month - 72€ a year not in Spain! I use Spotify for free, and car insurance looks very high but depends on car/policy cover. Water also seems very high.

Re: Is my move realistic?
 

I wish I could change Vodafone. I signed up for a deal that should have cost 52 per month, every time we call to rectify it they re-start the contract. It's for 300Mb fibre, HBO and 2 unlimited SIMs but need to change as soon as the contract is up. Car is only a Ford EcoSport but it's full insurance. I thought it was good, in Italy it was 2400 per year. Re Amazon, I paid 36 for the year but fat fingered a 6 instead of a 3 so I can have an extra bottle of water when the bars re-open. Re Spotify, I'm happy to pay as it's a family plan and I can download playlists for boring hours in airports and planes when we're finally allowed to travel again. Emivasa was 110 Euro for 2 months, 39 m3. The only reason I can think of for that one would be post exercise showers at home instead of the office during lockdown.
Point being, don't forget this is the cost of surviving, not living. I wouldn't advise anyone to emigrate anywhere in Europe to live a cheaper life. I'm with Missile, assume your expenditure to be the same. I would say to budget for more as ex-pats tend to eat out more than they would in the UK.

Re: Is my move realistic?
 

1,000 per month for two, seems fair to me. One could argue that not everyone needs a car, Vodaphone, Netflix and Spotify. These are luxuries that those on a tight budget could eliminate. I would argue there are other essential items which should be added to your list, e.g. clothes. My wife says she can never have too many handbags and shoes.

Re: Is my move realistic?
 

So here goes.
We've been here permanently since the middle of August, so you could say we have been settling in, so some of our usage amounts may be higher as Ive averaged only for the last 5 months..

But 'normal' outgoings here are as follows, in brackets were the Uk costs before we left. Based on the fact we had a 2 bed flat in Shoreham by sea and we now have a 3 bed flat in Xirles. Square metre about the same, 2nd floor.
Amounts are per month (but the community charge, water are quarterly) but I've divided them all to make it easier.

No rent or mortgage here but we rented in the uk (£950.00) Community charge here in Spain €36 Im not going to include this amount.

Water €14 (£38)
Gas 0 there is none, in the uk I paid a combined
Electric €75 (£140)
Mobile €24 (£10) here we have 2x lobster, in the Uk we had Virgin and had small allowances.
Home phone, internet, TV €42 (£100) but here we don't watch much TV and have no home phone, the internet is fibre but slow compared to the UK.
Bank Charges €24 (£0) our accounts are still non resident until we get our TIE.
IBI (council tax) €77 (£175)
Car Ins €35 (£8) had a classic car in the Uk with 3000 mile limit on policy.
Fuel €35 (£10) I worked 6 days a week with a company van in the Uk so petrol was only for Sundays in the classic.
Healthcare €138 (£0) we have private here but obviously NHS in the UK.
Home insurance, the building is covered by the community charge and we don't have contents (nor in the Uk)

Our food bill is around €80 a week for the 2 of us. Was over £100 in the uk. Which includes beer
We went out a couple of times a week in the UK but more here and I reckon we spend about the same €100

So thats about €924 a month here and I reckon we have a nicer life. Im not working so we are living off our savings and topping up from my private pension.
UK so was fully employed and so was the wife, outgoings in the Uk without rent £1281 so while more expensive its still comparable.

Its really only the healthcare that keeps it up and once this year is up I am considering lowering my cover to just emergencies only.

Re: Is my move realistic?
 

well done good analysis - I would comment -

'Bank Charges €24 (£0) our accounts are still non-resident until we get our TIE.'

Don't assume getting TIE/being resident means free banking because it does not.

Depending on where you live I think you could save on comms costs. I pay 53€ to Movistar for ADSL 20MB/mobile/landline/ltd TV....

Assume you are not paying IBI 77€ a month!! unless you have a palace...if that is a month wow!!

I hope you continue to enjoy living in Spain.

Re: Is my move realistic?
 

How much do you pay for community charge? I understand this can be quite high for some.

Re: Is my move realistic?
 

@Barriej, are you including the stealth taxes with the water bill? Most of my bill is additional fees. Honestly I had no idea what to expect as I didn't have water bills in my last place so I thought this was ok. SO far this thread is telling me I need to kick Vodafone in to touch, go to Aldi, ditch the car and collect rainwater.
https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/british...408e7f7d2f.jpg

Re: Is my move realistic?
 

Hi Barriej, I would check your community insurance. When we looked at ours it only covered the building, ie the outside walls and communal areas. It didn't cover the internal walls of our apartment, nor the bathroom or kitchen fittings, tiles, any decoration. It only covered the rebuilding of the shell.

We were advised to take out 1st loss insurance which covered our apartment for anything not covered by the communal insurance. It wasn't expensive and also included contents, water damage etc.

Re: Is my move realistic?
 

Err no, €11-1200 - €600 = €5-600 but yes, my WIFE and I do live on that and probably 6 months of the year there is something left over which goes towards paying annual occurring expenses such as insurances etc. with a few hundred top up from savings if needed.

If you want to talk annually then everything included we spend €15-15.5k pa which is around €3.5-4k less than we get from our 2 UK state pensions.

Re: Is my move realistic?
 

Our community charge is €108 a quarter. But we don't have a pool. Just gardens and roof terraces (each stairwell has 6 flats) Included in this is the general upkeep of the building, the cleaner who comes in 3 times a week to do the stairwell, the auto gates on the underground parking.

Its not really a community as such just a few blocks spread around a tiny village.

Picture here.

https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/british...4ada5ad7d7.jpg

Re: Is my move realistic?
 

My fault its €37 got confused there.

The IBI is weird cause I have to pay for the garage space, store room and the flat separately as each one has its own land registry number.

Santander will waive the charges once we are resident and I pay in my pension every month.

With the internet. The fibre line we have doesn't have TV option, we get digital from the ariel and dish on each block.

Thanks for the wishes, apart from getting bored (I went from a 12 hr 6 day a week job to well retired) we are doing OK. Having family close helps, and we have been coming here for over 10 years so we know some of the bar owners and the spanish bloke who sells great oranges, apples and veg and honey quite well.

Re: Is my move realistic?
 

Never was good at arithmetic :o
So your annual expenditure is €15-15.5 and after rent €600 per month you spend another circa €600 per month and another €600/1100 per year to enjoy living the dream?

Re: Is my move realistic?
 

Yep correct, its the same. But never had contents etc ever and touch wood. Never needed it.
But it is on the list of things to look at (only cause the wife keeps nagging me)

Re: Is my move realistic?
 

That looks very nice :goodpost:

Re: Is my move realistic?
 

@Barriej
Nice place.
On the subject of insurance, if your plumbing springs a leak and floods your downstairs neighbour or an item is blown off your balcony and lands on a local it can be really expensive. I suggest you get some indemnity for third party injuries. The Community Insurance most likely does not cover these things. Mine certainly did not.

Re: Is my move realistic?
 

I think a lot of people get confused about community insurance and fail to understand that it does not cover the possible risks for which you are responsible - plumbing issues causing problems in flats beneath you is quite common in my experience of flat living. So I would recommend taking out a policy should be around 2-3€ a week.

It is also tax deductible if you rent a flat out to a long term tenant.

Re: Is my move realistic?
 

Remember that as a consequence of Brexit, no deductions from rental income are allowed to non EU owners.

Re: Is my move realistic?
 

:goodpost: I own a flat in the UK. A tenant in the neighbouring block caused a water leak and the bill for consequential damage to the properties below was £52,000.

Re: Is my move realistic?
 

Thanks, Fred - a good point which I forgot to mention.

Re: Is my move realistic?
 

depends very much on your lifestyle. and where you live (the same as UK)
if you eat out a lot and your outgoings are high then the amount of money required will reflect this
perhaps make a list of all key expenditures ie car,tv etc
on the eating side i find 50% of UK and more taste and locally sourced