dr_zito

Hello. This is my first post. I have been reading a lot for some time now.

I am from Argentina. Got a job offer from a US company for Europe.
My question is regarding salary/cost of living.

I am between Madrid suburbs (La Moraleja, Majadahonda for example) and London suburbs.
In Madrid, rentals we are looking at are €4000/month + private school that costs around €3000/month for all children.
That puts us at a starting point of around €7000 (plus/minus 10%) which equals to about £5800.

It is fair to say that I would be spending more or less the same amount (housing+education) providing that in the UK I would be sending my children to a public school instead of a private one?

I understand that the UK is more expensive than Spain but I thought (maybe prejudice) that taking this into account I would spend more or less the same amount...

Thank you!

Joppa

I don't know why you need to send your children to private schools in Spain as presumably they are Spanish-speaking and state schools are quite good. In UK, the choice is between private (fee-paying) schools and state or maintained schools which don't have fees. Public schools in UK refer to old-established, prestigious private schools like Eton, Winchester and Harrow. State schools in UK can vary in quality but only 7% of children are educated privately, and with care, you can choose decent schools, though good schools tend to be full. Roman Catholic schools tend to be high-performing and Catholic children get priority, so baptism certificate and a letter from parish priest will help get a place.
As for the cost of living, London is very expensive especially for housing and for living costs UK is about 30% higher than Spain.

Moses2013

if bothered about money, why spend so much in the first place? People will tell you that Madrid is cheaper but what about income after tax?

dr_zito

Thanks for your reply and clarification.
We have decided to send them to a private school in Madrid. We believe, after asking several acquaintances/friends/etc, that the level of English taught in private schools (British council school for example) is better than in public schools. Again, maybe personal opinion.
Regarding religion, our plan is to send them to a non-religious school.

Thanks again.

dr_zito

That is a good point.
Maybe after tax (including the Beckham Law) remainig/net money is not so different in one place or the other.

Notdunroamin

Useful site for making comparisons.

https://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-livin...n&city2=Madrid

dr_zito

great thanks.

chopera

It's quite a difficult comparison to make. I live in Madrid and my sister lives in London so I have an idea of the differences, but I think it ultimately comes down personal preferences and maybe logistics.

The problem with London is that there is wide variation between the state schools, and rents tend to be much higher nearer the better state schools. That's if you can get your children into the decent state schools in the first place. But if you do manage it then I guess £5800/month would still get you a nice and large terraced house in a nice area of London.

Provided your children are completely fluent in English it should be straightforward to get them into one of the British schools in north Madrid. Also 4000 euros/month gets you a very nice detached house with a huge garden and private pool in places like Majadahonda, and maybe a house on an urbanisation with a pool in La Moraleja, which is one of the most upmarket areas in Madrid, inhabited by footballers and diplomats, etc.

dr_zito

Very interesting information chopera, thank you so much.

missile

If I had that kind of money to spend, I would be employing a realtor in London & Madrid to advise me on my options.

Slowlycatchymonkey

There’s a bit of a misconception between the difference in the terms public school and private school and it is really a very important one when choosing a school.
Both private schools and public schools are ‘independent fee paying’ schools. Public schools have a charitable status which affords them certain tax breaks but also means they cannot make a profit for owners or shareholders so all the money from the fees is ploughed back into to school. Private schools do not have a charitable status, they are owned and as such can keep any profit they make. This obviously discourages money being spent on the school to keep the profits up and as a result you can see appalling standards in some private facilities. This is especially true of the younger primary years of education.
It doesn’t refer to the old established prestigious schools but simply to the charitable status of the school. Even some of the teachers at my sons (non prestigious) public school are unaware of this so it’s a common mix up.

On the state school Vs public school debate we could be here for hours. Personally I think public schools are wrong, if all the wealthy, pushy, alpha, fee paying parents sent their kids to state school not only would it be a level playing field but they would drive the standards up with their loud demands for decent education. However when it came to sacrificing my own children to the local state school down the road... pah no way- I paid up! The standards are higher, the facilities are better and youre paying so you have a large say in what’s happening with your child.
Some public schools (like my sons) specialise in languages for overseas students. These offer a distinct advantage with extra language lessons to ease transition. One thing I can’t help but note about public school kids is that next to their state school contemporaries they are far more confident in themselves. Sad and annoying I know but there we are, life’s not fair and the vast majority of top roles are filled with the produce of fee paying schools.
So back to the money point of the poster, personally if I had the means I’d factor in school fees.

chopera

To add to the above, my sister has a similar situation in a fairly nice part of London (Putney). The local state schools are just terrible at secondary level, so she has to either move out or send her kids to a private school. She's chosen to stay in the area and spend huge amounts of money on private schools. On top of that though, the private school system has become extremely stressful for both parents and children. Children have to take exams to get into a decent prep school when they are 8, and now they take exams to get into secondary school when they are 11 (it used to be 13) because the private schools have discovered they are losing out on bright kids who get into decent state secondary schools when they are 11. If they child doesn't get a place when they are 11 they can still take common entrance exams when they are 13, but no place is guaranteed. So on top of extortionate school fees, parents push their kids through additional after school coaching, which costs extra and further stresses out the child. So obviously the most reputable schools are going to get the best results, since the kids who get in have gone through at least 2 stages of filtering, with parents pushing them all the way. I fail to see how this system produces the well rounded individuals it claims to, however I guess different parents have different priorities.

Slowlycatchymonkey

I thought that post might ruffle feathers. Brace yourself it got a bit long and I can’t be arsed to edit it.
Well depends on your choices. You’re talking about a child joining a school later rather than coming from the schools filter nursery/prep school when basically you put their name down and your in and that is what the majority of the school numbers are made up of, not the new people who join later. Oddly its also easy to switch from one public school to another with a reference from the headmaster. I think they are wary of state school children joining later because sometimes they arrive due to behavioural problems the school couldn’t cope with.

I do agree parents switching to independent schools from state do seem to really push their children, it’s a well observed trait and the children seem to suffer to start with and then eventually they (parent and child) seem to relax. I think the parents must be driven by fear of what will happen if they don’t get in. The pushy I refer to is the pushiness of the parents to get the best for their child, it’s normally directed at whoever’s in charge- I almost feel sorry for the teachers with the parents jumping up and down singing the very worn “my child my child my child” song.
It’s another misconception that the entrance exams are hard. Independent schools are run like businesses and they want your money. The parents of different public schools in the area know each other and Ive not heard of a single child failing a school entrance exam, they are accepted and told what areas they need extra tuition in (usually maths it seems, which of course your charged extra for). However I don’t agree with the idea that independent schools are missing out on the bright kids. The majority of the children at public school have been there from the start because that’s what the parents want so proportionally its all the same.
In private conversation I have been told independent schools love the testing at age 11 because parents panic and they get an influx of extra students £££. They are definitely a bit pickier if you want to join at 6th form time though because A levels are much harder and they need to brag about their results to keep their profile up, although the 5 C grades (or equivalent) most schools ask for isn’t that tough.

Some schools don’t even do any testing. It depends if they want to be rated by ofsted (who have no jurisdiction over independent schools) a lot don’t bother.
My sons school is in a non selective public school and due to its gentle teaching method attracts a lot of children with extra needs (it’s recommended by the dyslexia association) and yet their results are up there with the best and they appear in the papers good schools guide every year. These results are not because the parents are pushing their children (some do but they are a tiny minority) but because all the costly extra input and adjustments have been made to help the child thrive. Extra lessons that there just isn’t the money for in state schools.
There are two non stressful avenues into an independent school- 1. Put them in the nursery or prep school that filters directly into the secondary school you want. 2. Don’t worry about taking the exam, they want your money and will accept almost anyone who doesn’t have profound learning difficulties.
I didn’t claim they were well rounded though I mentioned you can’t help but see they are more confident and who wouldn’t be with all of this stuff layed out on a plate for you?!
On the upside for your sister after paying painful school fees for 5+ years when they finish you are suddenly in the exciting position of what to do with the now available money... maybe buy a place in Spain :-D

chopera

To clarify, my sister's kids haven't come through the state school system, they've always been in private schools. The older child is confident, outgoing and articulate and just did his exams at the age of 11. They were recommended to apply to 4 schools deemed suitable, and he was rejected by 2 and is on the waiting list for another 2. He'll probably get in to one of them, since not all the offers will be accepted, but it leaves me thinking that if a child like that struggles to get in, then really parents are left with no choice but to overload their kids with extra coaching. Also the child has to deal with being rejected by schools at the age of 11, so not great for his confidence.

This isn't a criticism of private schools by the way, I really don't have a problem with them and would consider sending my kids to a fee paying school in Madrid if I felt it was worth it. It's just the situation in London in particular appears to be ridiculous, with demand completely outstripping supply, and schools almost entirely relying on exams to filter applicants. Of course my sister could choose to move out of London, where she probably wouldn't have a problem finding a decent school, either state or private. However the OP was specifically asking about London and from what I can tell, it's really difficult to get places at private schools in London, so it's probably the same for the decent state schools.

Slowlycatchymonkey

Fair doos. I have heard London’s a different ball game. I’m surprised the private junior school doesn’t feed directly into a secondary school though. It’s a shame, education should be an equal opportunity for everyone.