JLFS

I think that keeping the child back a year if they dont pass is a bad thing.

I have seen the effect it has on the kids, they are away from their "classmatesand friends", and put a younger group of kids, this does not help at all, I think that the UK system is better.

If the standards are lower than in the past, that has nothing to do with not making the child repeat the year, as it has never been the norm in the UK.

siesta

Yeah, but I don't see any logic on always passing and not having proper exams/marks in any subject, especially when they're a bit older. And at least in primary school, when a kid repeats the year, it's because they really need it, not because they're a bit poor in some areas.

lynnxa

yes, it can have a bad effect on kids - or they can look upon it as an opportunity to do better next year & get their lives & education back on track
agreed - also having a school report & exams every term is good - if a child is struggling it comes to light so much sooner & help can be sought/given

and the constant exams/tests take the fear & nerves away for when the important ones come around

JLFS

Ididnt say that they should not have proper exams, but I think it is a year wasted to make them repeat it, and bunging them in class with kids that can be up to 18 months younger, will surely have an effect on their social development.

JLFS

You seem to have the viewpoint that the kids who dont "cut it" in a particular year, are somehow in total control of the situation.

Whereas I think most kids who are struggling, would not consider that their lives were "off track in the first place, they are more likely not really academic
gifted or just needing a bit of extra help.

siesta

Kids have been repeating here for ages and I've never heard of problems in social development. Yeah, they are not in the same class as their friends but sometimes that might be a good thing as well. It just depends on the case. When a kid has learning difficulties (ie. not reading yet) in a group that is doing something they can't cope with, I don't know what good their friends are. However, as I said earlier, it's only in special cases and in the even years (2, 4, 6). I'm not especially keen on making students repeat the year, but I wouldn't understand teaching if I knew they are not going to have exams, marks, and the 'fear' they might repeat. Some students don't care anyway, but at least it's there and makes them work harder. Some education experts might disagree but those are usually the ones speaking from unis and offices, not dealing with classes every day.

JLFS

When I talk about social development, I might be better using the word confidence.

It seems a bit harsh to publicly "draw attention" to a child who is struggling, mabybe due to illness, family problems, or just not being up to the standard by keeping them back.

It just seem like adding more "weight" on top of their problems and is quite a kick in the cataplines, so to speak.

snikpoh

I personally think that being held back is a good idea. I would hate for my children to be 'promoted' and then really struggle because they couldn't cope. I'd rather they got the subjects 'under their belt' before moving on to more difficult topics.

Yes, there is an issue regarding losing friends and being branded a failure, but then that's what parenting is all about - letting children know that they haven't failed and that they will pick up more friends along the way.

paintermujer

Ive just asked my daughter if anyone makes fun etc. of anyone kept down a year. She says shes never heard anything and she does know children in her school who have been held back a year.

She says she dosent care about the other ones but would feel embarrassed if it was her....Luckily shes going into yr 5 when they go back.

I dont really see a problem with it and it gives time to catch up which some need and dosent really have a stigma around here.I think education may mean different things to different people.Maybe.

lynnxa

exactly

I think because it's so very common for kids to be held back there isn't really a stigma to it, as you said

and I also think it's important to mention that it's not just foreign kids who get held back - so do the native spanish speaking kids - so it's not necessarily a language issue

JLFS

There is a stigma to it when a Spanish kid gets held back and a foriegn kid does not, and where there are no foreign children in other parts of Spain, it is quite a big deal.



What I dont understand is if the child is kept back a year, what happens to the work that they missed while doing the year before?

lynnxa

really - I hadn't realised that - and I can imagine that for some spanish families it would be rather galling when a foreigner does better than their child in a second or third language - come to think of it I do know one very valencian (as opposed to spanish) mother who has given her son a lot of grief for not being top of the class in everything - especially when some 'foreign kids' are ahead of him!

I didn't realise that it was a stigma where no foreigners are in the school, though

they literally repeat everything - hopefully doing it better the second time around - literally a second chance

then at the end of that year they continue

so if at the end of 1º ESO they are held back - they just do it again

at the end of their second go at it they go into 2º ESO - by which time the kids they had started with the first time round will be going into 3º

it is entirely possible to take 8 years to complete ESO - although of course the vast majority of kids repeatedly repeating will leave at the earliest opportunity at age 16 without graduado

JLFS

Of course there is stigma involved even when there are no foreign children going up to the next year above a native child.

Spanish mothers are just the same as other nationalities and just as catty,

"My little Pedro really misses your little Paco since he had to repeat", and things of that kind.

Then poor little Paco gets a load of grief from mummy coz little Pedros s**t of a mother got her dig in, and said it in a very loud voice, so now all the other mums know.

Hence little Paco has the added pressure of catching up so that next year his mummy make the same type of comment to some other poor failing kids mother in an equally loud voice,and so it continues.

Playground politics......

Lorna at Vicenza

Wow what a turn this whole conversation took.

Interesting. The same thing happens in Italy. They call it "bocciato" which in itself as a title must hold some kind of stigma.

Getting kept down a year at primary or middle school here doesn't happen very often. When it does happen it's usually a foreign kid that hasn't been here long enough and the teachers decide together that it's better for the kid to repeat year 2 or 3 rather than get seriously "bocciato" later on in life. Their reasoning is that it gives the child in question a better chance at learning the language etc. before moving on to more difficult levels.

In the whole 5 years my daughter has been at elementary - only 2 or 3 kids in the whole school were kept back.... and there are 3 classrooms in each year.

In high school, getting "bocciato is more common and at the moment, at that age, it's mostly Italians, and the kids themselves admit that they have studied sweet FA and messed around all year.

lynnxa

it does seem more common in secondary school here, too -and a lot of them would also admit they'd done sweet FA - though not all

they get to resit the subjects they failed next week - so they have another chance before they return in september

my younger daughter just finished primary & will be starting secondary in a few weeks - 2 girls who were in her class have been held back - both spanish, and both until last year near the top of the class

the parents are blaming another girl's bad influence on their daughters - and I can sort of see where they are coming from - but if you don't have some control over an 11 year old, where they go, what they do & how long they do it for - what chance do you have when they are 13+ when they really do get more freedom