Motorway Toll Law Passed
Dec 19th 2011, 4:45 am
#91
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Joined: Jun 2009
Location: Valencia area
Posts: 1,161
Re: Motorway Toll Law Passed
We have spoken to Hertz about it and their answer was roughly as clear as mud, but goes something like:
As you cannot pay for a one-off journey until you have made it, the best thing is to pay for Faro - Spain at the border, although the car/journey doesn't register immediately in the system so you will have to wait a while (not sure how long) before you try to pay . Similarly for the journey back to the airport, you cannot pay for it at the airport as it won't have registered, so for now Hertz are billing people after they have returned to the UK by contacting them and taking card details + a 20 euro admin fee?!
They are trying to improve this situation as they themselves say it is ridiculous, and for the moment recommend that the best thing is to by an unlimited use ticket at Faro Airport for your period of stay - ie 20euros for 2 weeks. You will have to buy this after you have picked up your car as you need to put the registration number into the machine.
Fantastic! Any updates/clarifications from the horses mouth much appreciated.
As you cannot pay for a one-off journey until you have made it, the best thing is to pay for Faro - Spain at the border, although the car/journey doesn't register immediately in the system so you will have to wait a while (not sure how long) before you try to pay . Similarly for the journey back to the airport, you cannot pay for it at the airport as it won't have registered, so for now Hertz are billing people after they have returned to the UK by contacting them and taking card details + a 20 euro admin fee?!
They are trying to improve this situation as they themselves say it is ridiculous, and for the moment recommend that the best thing is to by an unlimited use ticket at Faro Airport for your period of stay - ie 20euros for 2 weeks. You will have to buy this after you have picked up your car as you need to put the registration number into the machine.
Fantastic! Any updates/clarifications from the horses mouth much appreciated.
Dec 19th 2011, 9:31 am
#94
Forum Regular
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 31
Re: Motorway Toll Law Passed
There is a post office at the airport apparently where you can buy them - CTT Correios - usual opening hours of course?! This really isn't easy - especially for tourists unfamiliar with Portugal etc - its hard to believe they have done it.
Dec 20th 2011, 6:22 am
#95
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Joined: Apr 2010
Location: London (mainly)/Oliva
Posts: 2,137
Re: Motorway Toll Law Passed
This thread intrigues me.
Can it really be this difficult to set up a toll road?
All you need is a booth and someone collecting the money.
Can it really be this difficult to set up a toll road?
All you need is a booth and someone collecting the money.
Dec 20th 2011, 6:41 am
#96
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Joined: Nov 2005
Location: In your nightmares.
Posts: 834
Re: Motorway Toll Law Passed
The jobs yours if you want it.
The problem is that the road in question has multiple entry and exit points along the Algarve, so you would need a booth at each one.
Not really cost effective as the road is not exactly teeming with traffic.
So they have gone for the automated number plate recognition option but have not really factored in, in my opinion that the road is used hugely by short term holidaymakers who really do not need or want the hassle of
finding the means of prepaying for any journey they may make or obtaining a transponder for short duration of their stay.
Dec 20th 2011, 10:37 am
#97
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Joined: Jun 2005
Location: Puente Esuri
Posts: 6,907
Re: Motorway Toll Law Passed
The jobs yours if you want it.
The problem is that the road in question has multiple entry and exit points along the Algarve, so you would need a booth at each one.
Not really cost effective as the road is not exactly teeming with traffic.
So they have gone for the automated number plate recognition option but have not really factored in, in my opinion that the road is used hugely by short term holidaymakers who really do not need or want the hassle of
finding the means of prepaying for any journey they may make or obtaining a transponder for short duration of their stay.
The problem is that the road in question has multiple entry and exit points along the Algarve, so you would need a booth at each one.
Not really cost effective as the road is not exactly teeming with traffic.
So they have gone for the automated number plate recognition option but have not really factored in, in my opinion that the road is used hugely by short term holidaymakers who really do not need or want the hassle of
finding the means of prepaying for any journey they may make or obtaining a transponder for short duration of their stay.
Last edited by EsuriJohn; Dec 20th 2011 at 10:40 am.
Dec 21st 2011, 6:13 am
#98
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Joined: Nov 2010
Location: Coventry
Posts: 437
Re: Motorway Toll Law Passed
I have hired a car for next week from Economycar. They say that they are still waiting for definitive instructions from the Portuguese authority. In the meantime, toll charges will be treated in the same way as traffic or speeding fines. If anyone uses the toll road, the local authority will contact the supplier to ask for the details of the hirer. A letter will then be sent to the hirer's home address, setting out the charges and giving information about the way to pay.
from next summer it is likely that there will be an electronic system in place to enable the tolls to be paid locally but this is still in discussion with the local authority.
so no doubt we will all be charged fines and interest on top of the toll charge. i will let you know how we get on next week.
Kath
from next summer it is likely that there will be an electronic system in place to enable the tolls to be paid locally but this is still in discussion with the local authority.
so no doubt we will all be charged fines and interest on top of the toll charge. i will let you know how we get on next week.
Kath
Dec 21st 2011, 6:30 am
#99
BE Enthusiast
Joined: Nov 2005
Location: In your nightmares.
Posts: 834
Re: Motorway Toll Law Passed
I have hired a car for next week from Economycar. They say that they are still waiting for definitive instructions from the Portuguese authority. In the meantime, toll charges will be treated in the same way as traffic or speeding fines. If anyone uses the toll road, the local authority will contact the supplier to ask for the details of the hirer. A letter will then be sent to the hirer's home address, setting out the charges and giving information about the way to pay.
from next summer it is likely that there will be an electronic system in place to enable the tolls to be paid locally but this is still in discussion with the local authority.
so no doubt we will all be charged fines and interest on top of the toll charge. i will let you know how we get on next week.
Kath
from next summer it is likely that there will be an electronic system in place to enable the tolls to be paid locally but this is still in discussion with the local authority.
so no doubt we will all be charged fines and interest on top of the toll charge. i will let you know how we get on next week.
Kath
Absolute madness
Dec 21st 2011, 8:39 am
#100
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Jun 2005
Location: Puente Esuri
Posts: 6,907
Dec 21st 2011, 8:00 pm
#101
BE Positive
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 3,980
Re: Motorway Toll Law Passed
I have hired a car for next week from Economycar. They say that they are still waiting for definitive instructions from the Portuguese authority. In the meantime, toll charges will be treated in the same way as traffic or speeding fines. If anyone uses the toll road, the local authority will contact the supplier to ask for the details of the hirer. A letter will then be sent to the hirer's home address, setting out the charges and giving information about the way to pay.
from next summer it is likely that there will be an electronic system in place to enable the tolls to be paid locally but this is still in discussion with the local authority.
so no doubt we will all be charged fines and interest on top of the toll charge. i will let you know how we get on next week.
Kath
from next summer it is likely that there will be an electronic system in place to enable the tolls to be paid locally but this is still in discussion with the local authority.
so no doubt we will all be charged fines and interest on top of the toll charge. i will let you know how we get on next week.
Kath
We have a few threads going on here - in addition to this
http://britishexpats.com/forum/showt...709700&page=11
http://britishexpats.com/forum/showt...705093&page=28
It shows that the rental companies aren't thinking this through (as they should without waiting for some goverment policy document - the govt has already decided how the tolls themselves will work). The government hasn't thought it through for renters - and the rental companies cant figure out what to do so are burying their heads in the sand. In the end we customers will pay. How crazy to send a bill (not fine) to a car rental company - then have them contact the govt to give our address and then the govt send us a letter! Crazy!!
Also I simply cannot believe that the government has a separate register of numberplates belonging to rental cars.. so that they can send a letter ONLY and start this laborious and expensive process, without activating the normal fining mechanism for non-payment.
Who would have complete confidence with this process and not suspect that with the thousands of rentals - there wont be fines sent as opposed to nice letters (starting a chain of admin) to get a few euros??! Not me! What if the admin person makes a mistake and forgets to send our address or the wrong one? Meaning, after a while a fine is incurred! (Or the harried 'hard-working' public service worker receiving the information) It wont work in practice! I think some spotty Harvard MBA thought this one out
Its vaguely possible that in the early days we can 'get away' with it... but if I was a rental company, I would not tear up the blank cheque' credit card receipt the customer has to leave at the start of the rental. Usually, as we know, they check the car over and tear it up if alls OK. Meaning we can leave with a clear head. Now these small companies will keep a 'blank cheque' to cover themselves and we will have no idea what's going on. No receipt either. Who out there has confidence in leaving a blank cheque and trusting these companies.... and feel that AFTER the money has come out any 'dispute resolution' will be easy - or quickly sorted?? (they've got our money!).
If they tear up the credit card slip - then I will be happy and will wait for the letter to come through with hopefully the charge and NOT the fine..
......but all I can see is a host of problems coming up...... that the RENTERS and the GOVERNMENT need to both discuss - and sort out - in preparation of the summer rush! Of course they should have done it already - oh well its Portugal!
I've mentioned on the forum the issues here and the problems they've created. I'm not totally against the tolls but want a decent system to pay for them... for renters ... the current one is cr*p !
Happy travels to Spain/Portugal!
Merry Christmas and I hope not a too expensive New Year!
Jon
Dec 21st 2011, 8:24 pm
#102
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 2,675
Re: Motorway Toll Law Passed
[QUOTE=Jon-Bxl;9801719]We have a few threads going on here - in addition to this
http://britishexpats.com/forum/showt...709700&page=11
http://britishexpats.com/forum/showt...705093&page=28
It shows that the rental companies aren't thinking this through (as they should without waiting for some goverment policy document - the govt has already decided how the tolls themselves will work). The government hasn't thought it through for renters - and the rental companies cant figure out what to do so are burying their heads in the sand. In the end we customers will pay. How crazy to send a bill (not fine) to a car rental company - then have them contact the govt to give our address and then the govt send us a letter! Crazy!!
Also I simply cannot believe that the government has a separate register of numberplates belonging to rental cars.. so that they can send a letter ONLY and start this laborious and expensive process, without activating the normal fining mechanism for non-payment.
Who would have complete confidence with this process and not suspect that with the thousands of rentals - there wont be fines sent as opposed to nice letters (starting a chain of admin) to get a few euros??! Not me! What if the admin person makes a mistake and forgets to send our address or the wrong one? Meaning, after a while a fine is incurred! (Or the harried 'hard-working' public service worker receiving the information) It wont work in practice! I think some spotty Harvard MBA thought this one out
Its vaguely possible that in the early days we can 'get away' with it... but if I was a rental company, I would not tear up the blank cheque' credit card receipt the customer has to leave at the start of the rental. Usually, as we know, they check the car over and tear it up if alls OK. Meaning we can leave with a clear head. Now these small companies will keep a 'blank cheque' to cover themselves and we will have no idea what's going on. No receipt either. Who out there has confidence in leaving a blank cheque and trusting these companies.... and feel that AFTER the money has come out any 'dispute resolution' will be easy - or quickly sorted?? (they've got our money!).
If they tear up the credit card slip - then I will be happy and will wait for the letter to come through with hopefully the charge and NOT the fine..
......but all I can see is a host of problems coming up...... that the RENTERS and the GOVERNMENT need to both discuss - and sort out - in preparation of the summer rush! Of course they should have done it already - oh well its Portugal!
I've mentioned on the forum the issues here and the problems they've created. I'm not totally against the tolls but want a decent system to pay for them... for renters ... the current one is cr*p !
Happy travels to Spain/Portugal!
Merry Christmas and I hope not a too expensive New Year!
Jon
They won't have a seperate system for hire cards - the letter the rental company will get will be the standard one sent demanding the details of the driver WHEN the toll has not been paid within 7 days. ie all renters who do not pre-pay in some way will get a fine! + the Admin fee from the hire company ( ie 20-30 Euros + 25-125Euros fine). Bloody expensive motorway trip. I guess that the answer is NOT to use the toll road unless you have pre-paid or have a transponder. In other words if you live on the Spanish side, fly to Seville (or Jerez) and don't venture further west than Monte Gordo.
It will also hit the Ayamonte economy. I notice that a large proportion of cars in Mercadona car park and at the filling stations are Portuguese!
What I don't understand is why they can install temporary pre-pay ticket machines (I understand they are to be removed after 8th Jan) and not just install more permanent ones - preferably ones you can use without getting out of the car. After all, they have all the technology to photograph, scan and record the number plate - it would be a short step to printing the details on a ticket in a ticket machine.
http://britishexpats.com/forum/showt...709700&page=11
http://britishexpats.com/forum/showt...705093&page=28
It shows that the rental companies aren't thinking this through (as they should without waiting for some goverment policy document - the govt has already decided how the tolls themselves will work). The government hasn't thought it through for renters - and the rental companies cant figure out what to do so are burying their heads in the sand. In the end we customers will pay. How crazy to send a bill (not fine) to a car rental company - then have them contact the govt to give our address and then the govt send us a letter! Crazy!!
Also I simply cannot believe that the government has a separate register of numberplates belonging to rental cars.. so that they can send a letter ONLY and start this laborious and expensive process, without activating the normal fining mechanism for non-payment.
Who would have complete confidence with this process and not suspect that with the thousands of rentals - there wont be fines sent as opposed to nice letters (starting a chain of admin) to get a few euros??! Not me! What if the admin person makes a mistake and forgets to send our address or the wrong one? Meaning, after a while a fine is incurred! (Or the harried 'hard-working' public service worker receiving the information) It wont work in practice! I think some spotty Harvard MBA thought this one out
Its vaguely possible that in the early days we can 'get away' with it... but if I was a rental company, I would not tear up the blank cheque' credit card receipt the customer has to leave at the start of the rental. Usually, as we know, they check the car over and tear it up if alls OK. Meaning we can leave with a clear head. Now these small companies will keep a 'blank cheque' to cover themselves and we will have no idea what's going on. No receipt either. Who out there has confidence in leaving a blank cheque and trusting these companies.... and feel that AFTER the money has come out any 'dispute resolution' will be easy - or quickly sorted?? (they've got our money!).
If they tear up the credit card slip - then I will be happy and will wait for the letter to come through with hopefully the charge and NOT the fine..
......but all I can see is a host of problems coming up...... that the RENTERS and the GOVERNMENT need to both discuss - and sort out - in preparation of the summer rush! Of course they should have done it already - oh well its Portugal!
I've mentioned on the forum the issues here and the problems they've created. I'm not totally against the tolls but want a decent system to pay for them... for renters ... the current one is cr*p !
Happy travels to Spain/Portugal!
Merry Christmas and I hope not a too expensive New Year!
Jon
It will also hit the Ayamonte economy. I notice that a large proportion of cars in Mercadona car park and at the filling stations are Portuguese!
What I don't understand is why they can install temporary pre-pay ticket machines (I understand they are to be removed after 8th Jan) and not just install more permanent ones - preferably ones you can use without getting out of the car. After all, they have all the technology to photograph, scan and record the number plate - it would be a short step to printing the details on a ticket in a ticket machine.
Dec 21st 2011, 8:59 pm
#103
Forum Regular
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 87
Re: Motorway Toll Law Passed
They are trying to improve this situation as they themselves say it is ridiculous, and for the moment recommend that the best thing is to by an unlimited use ticket at Faro Airport for your period of stay - ie 20euros for 2 weeks. You will have to buy this after you have picked up your car as you need to put the registration number into the machine.
Fantastic! Any updates/clarifications from the horses mouth much appreciated.[/QUOTE]
does this ticket exist as i have not heard it mentioned before i am picking up a car on boxing day and i would rather just pay the 20 euros and forget about it for the rest of the week, i cant believe the hire companies are not putting the transponder in the car at least then you are legal what would happen if you get stopped and have nothing is it an immiediate fine?
Fantastic! Any updates/clarifications from the horses mouth much appreciated.
[/QUOTE]does this ticket exist as i have not heard it mentioned before i am picking up a car on boxing day and i would rather just pay the 20 euros and forget about it for the rest of the week, i cant believe the hire companies are not putting the transponder in the car at least then you are legal what would happen if you get stopped and have nothing is it an immiediate fine?
Dec 21st 2011, 10:51 pm
#104
BE Positive
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 3,980
Re: Motorway Toll Law Passed
They are trying to improve this situation as they themselves say it is ridiculous, and for the moment recommend that the best thing is to by an unlimited use ticket at Faro Airport for your period of stay - ie 20euros for 2 weeks. You will have to buy this after you have picked up your car as you need to put the registration number into the machine.
Fantastic! Any updates/clarifications from the horses mouth much appreciated.
Fantastic! Any updates/clarifications from the horses mouth much appreciated.
[QUOTE=MikeJ;9801737]
We have a few threads going on here - in addition to this
http://britishexpats.com/forum/showt...709700&page=11
http://britishexpats.com/forum/showt...705093&page=28
It shows that the rental companies aren't thinking this through (as they should without waiting for some goverment policy document - the govt has already decided how the tolls themselves will work). The government hasn't thought it through for renters - and the rental companies cant figure out what to do so are burying their heads in the sand. In the end we customers will pay. How crazy to send a bill (not fine) to a car rental company - then have them contact the govt to give our address and then the govt send us a letter! Crazy!!
They won't have a seperate system for hire cards - the letter the rental company will get will be the standard one sent demanding the details of the driver WHEN the toll has not been paid within 7 days. ie all renters who do not pre-pay in some way will get a fine! + the Admin fee from the hire company ( ie 20-30 Euros + 25-125Euros fine). Bloody expensive motorway trip. I guess that the answer is NOT to use the toll road unless you have pre-paid or have a transponder. In other words if you live on the Spanish side, fly to Seville (or Jerez) and don't venture further west than Monte Gordo.
It will also hit the Ayamonte economy. I notice that a large proportion of cars in Mercadona car park and at the filling stations are Portuguese!
What I don't understand is why they can install temporary pre-pay ticket machines (I understand they are to be removed after 8th Jan) and not just install more permanent ones - preferably ones you can use without getting out of the car. After all, they have all the technology to photograph, scan and record the number plate - it would be a short step to printing the details on a ticket in a ticket machine.
http://britishexpats.com/forum/showt...709700&page=11
http://britishexpats.com/forum/showt...705093&page=28
It shows that the rental companies aren't thinking this through (as they should without waiting for some goverment policy document - the govt has already decided how the tolls themselves will work). The government hasn't thought it through for renters - and the rental companies cant figure out what to do so are burying their heads in the sand. In the end we customers will pay. How crazy to send a bill (not fine) to a car rental company - then have them contact the govt to give our address and then the govt send us a letter! Crazy!!
They won't have a seperate system for hire cards - the letter the rental company will get will be the standard one sent demanding the details of the driver WHEN the toll has not been paid within 7 days. ie all renters who do not pre-pay in some way will get a fine! + the Admin fee from the hire company ( ie 20-30 Euros + 25-125Euros fine). Bloody expensive motorway trip. I guess that the answer is NOT to use the toll road unless you have pre-paid or have a transponder. In other words if you live on the Spanish side, fly to Seville (or Jerez) and don't venture further west than Monte Gordo.
It will also hit the Ayamonte economy. I notice that a large proportion of cars in Mercadona car park and at the filling stations are Portuguese!
What I don't understand is why they can install temporary pre-pay ticket machines (I understand they are to be removed after 8th Jan) and not just install more permanent ones - preferably ones you can use without getting out of the car. After all, they have all the technology to photograph, scan and record the number plate - it would be a short step to printing the details on a ticket in a ticket machine.
...... Keeping 'blank cheque' in mind...
Its interesting... will the rental company tear up your credit card if the car is OK - if you produce your receipt showing that you have paid the unlimited use voucher... or maybe swap the voucher for the open credit card slip? I wonder.
Of course there isnt a separate system for renters - I hope my ridicule of that was clear. It isnt workable... as the multi layer letter sending to get a toll isnt workable in reality, either.
The renters and government need to come up with a way to make this easier for their own business interests ..
Transponders themselves are good but as mentioned before I (and everyone else) will want to see a receipt showing its paid up till the moment I get the car and then a readout at the end to show how much Ive used. (Which becomes the next guys receipt)
The only way is to have a real time system that we can check on the internet 10 mins after quitting the MWay to return the car. The 'cheap' rental co's in car park 4 will not have internet + printing capability.
They will say - keep the credit card open and we will pay your tolls.... but how do we know its ONLY our tolls.... also they have your card and any slight dishonesty from them and we are screwed.... and having hassles fighting them from afar.
The last time I returned my car they were really busy and couldnt locate my credit card voucher (it was a big co - fully connected)... they promised me that the moment they introduced the car into the system as returned - the account was closed and no bill could be charged. Since I was there checking in the car and they had entered into the system, I believed them, I had to accept - we had a flight to catch.
Sure enough there was a charge! Luckily I put a reminder on my phone to check my credit card statement later. It was for late return it turns out... but it was their error. (And a CRAZY charge too - nearly a weeks rental!!) I got the money back through the internet rental broker who were very helpful and professional..... but Advantage/Hertz lied to me. They are a big co!
On previous visits I have had my credit card blocked just for using in Spain/Portugal. Its a policy. All customers have been told to pre-warn the credit card co's before travel, and I have to call before and get the travel period put in the systems. Its caused nightmares for other customers (unable to pay hotel bills etc). Its in the credit card companies best interests to cancel the card apparently in Spain/Portugal! Ive had no problems anywhere else in Europe. What do the Creditcard companies know I wonder????!
Looks like cancelling the card used for the car, before leaving and using another card over there, is also in OUR best interests if they use it as a blank cheque for the car!!
... And so it continues......
Jon
Last edited by Jon-Bxl; Dec 21st 2011 at 10:58 pm.
Dec 21st 2011, 11:04 pm
#105
BE Enthusiast
Joined: Feb 2006
Location: Isla Canela & Mountnessing
Posts: 704
Re: Motorway Toll Law Passed
They are trying to improve this situation as they themselves say it is ridiculous, and for the moment recommend that the best thing is to by an unlimited use ticket at Faro Airport for your period of stay - ie 20euros for 2 weeks. You will have to buy this after you have picked up your car as you need to put the registration number into the machine.
Fantastic! Any updates/clarifications from the horses mouth much appreciated.
Fantastic! Any updates/clarifications from the horses mouth much appreciated.
Correct me if I am wrong,but doesn't the 20 euro ticket only cover 3 or 5 days not for a unlimited period ?
Last edited by chrismortley; Dec 21st 2011 at 11:12 pm.
