mot a car
Sep 10th 2006, 10:28 pm
#31
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 987
Re: mot a car
Originally Posted by Dxf
Zel,
Are you scaremongering or what? Do you have any official capacity? From my experience (AROUND 100 CARS IMPORTED FOR CLIENTS), the normal guy in the normal ITV station, has a normal specification in front of him, and if it is reasonable, he is not out to make waves, The normal person has nothing to worry about.
Dave XF
Are you scaremongering or what? Do you have any official capacity? From my experience (AROUND 100 CARS IMPORTED FOR CLIENTS), the normal guy in the normal ITV station, has a normal specification in front of him, and if it is reasonable, he is not out to make waves, The normal person has nothing to worry about.
Dave XF
Yourself having 'around 100 cars imported for clients' should know the differences between an "import" a "personal import" or a "grey import" when it comes down to EU legislation, so in theory if you had that much experience in the industry you shouldn't of even made 'scaremongering' comment period as you would know it's FACT, not scaremongering. Perhaps you just wanted to try to stir up trouble?
If you want me to explain more clearly for you I will try my best as you really should understand the differences as if you come up against something that isnt your normal run of the mill EU type approved or owned for six months vehicle you could end up costing your 'clients' lots of money.
The *VAST* majority of people do NOT fall into Mitzyboys bracket of registration, but as I *CLEARLY* stated even he shouldn't have a problem unless the vehicle has nasty emissions outputs and as I *know* Mityzboys situation personaly I know his vehicle was NEVER sold to the European Market in the first place; so no MOT/ITV station has a set of figures for his specific vehicle so they have to use their generic levels in terms of Emissions.
I suggest you re-read my post and I would be grateful for an apology and as for official capacity, you just have to ask around we've been around the longest on the forums giving advice. We have over 60 years of combined experience with import/export of vehicles & boats worldwide and without trying to sound rude, we deal in much larger volumes than yourself as we sell to the trade also.
Also "will pass any imported car" this is simply not true, there are very specfic exclusions that will not gain registration or pass an ITV, but a person of your experience knows this right?! no?! why not?!
Infact my cousin just a few months ago Ferrari 355 got denied Spanish registration until its original exhaust was fitted, FACT not 'scaremongering' as you put it.
Last edited by zel; Sep 10th 2006 at 11:48 pm.
Sep 11th 2006, 7:54 am
#32
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 987
Re: mot a car
Originally Posted by maryg
We are taking our RHD Honda crv......long story but we don't have much choice at the moment. As far as I'm aware the only mods we've had done is tinted windows. Would this be a problem?
Mary
Mary
Well it depends on the level of Tint (ie the darker it is the more possibility of it having to be removed) and to what windows it's applied to (if it's applied to front driver/passenger side windows then probably yes)
Though you might get lucky and get an ITV station that is not on ball, but if you do have to take them off; if you have the professionaly installed tints then the best way to get them off is to heat them up with a heat gun or hairdryer until they start to peel. Some of the inferior tints will just peel off without the need for heat.
I certainly wouldn't remove them unless asked as you may find your level of tints are legal or the ITV tester just doesn't care (which is more likely)
Last month when I was in Alicante I registered a Mercedes CL55 for a client of ours and it had the deepest tint you can have on the rear and side windows. We were not told to have them removed as the ITV guy didn't care he was more interested in his upcoming break i'd imagine!
Good luck with your move and try not to worry about your vehicle registration as long as you have all the paperwork inplace and it's a proper UK or EU supplied vehicle (and the modifications needed for RHD->LHD driving) you can do it yourself for a minimal fee. It really isn't complex or rocket science like a lot of people say it is, most of it is purely overcoming the language barrier.
Infact it's more complex to register a vehicle in the UK than it is in Spain!
Last edited by zel; Sep 11th 2006 at 9:37 am.
Sep 11th 2006, 9:35 am
#33
Forum Regular
Joined: Jun 2005
Location: West Midlands/Murcia
Posts: 163
Re: mot a car
[QUOTE=zel]Hi Mary,
Well it depends on the level of Tint (ie the darker it is the more possibility of it having to be removed) and to what windows it's applied to (if it's applied to front driver/passenger side windows then probably yes)
QUOTE]
Many thanks for your reply......you've put my mind at rest about the tints. They were professionally done (darker at the back) and the front window was not touched. The ideal would be to buy a LHD, but in the mean time we will have to make do with the RHD, and get it re registered onto Spanish plates. Our insurance runs out about 2 weeks after we get to Spain, so we'll have to sort it out pretty damned quick!
Once again, many thanks,
Mary
Well it depends on the level of Tint (ie the darker it is the more possibility of it having to be removed) and to what windows it's applied to (if it's applied to front driver/passenger side windows then probably yes)
QUOTE]
Many thanks for your reply......you've put my mind at rest about the tints. They were professionally done (darker at the back) and the front window was not touched. The ideal would be to buy a LHD, but in the mean time we will have to make do with the RHD, and get it re registered onto Spanish plates. Our insurance runs out about 2 weeks after we get to Spain, so we'll have to sort it out pretty damned quick!
Once again, many thanks,
Mary
Sep 11th 2006, 12:22 pm
#34
Senior Moment
Joined: Jan 2006
Location: On the edge
Posts: 20,460
Re: mot a car
Originally Posted by zel
Firstly I was talking about vehicles that are EU sourced and sold, not grey imports, tho the regulations are similar, but not the same.
Secondly;
1> Your vehicle is pre '97 from what I remember so it has a basic 'does it have 4 wheels and an engine' SVA test
2> The SVA centre did something illegal by passing your vehicle with a KMH speedo (the odometre can still record in KMH tho)
3> Your vehicle does not come with an EU spec/approval, it's officialy classed as a grey import that has passed a very basic of basic SVA test to gain registration. So it has passed what the UK (not the EU) says it considers legal, this is NOT recongized throughout the EU.
The UK registration (and SVA) bears no meaning or relevance when registering a vehicle in another member state when registering the vehicle as an import (not a personal import)
The UK V5 is purely evidence that you've owned the vehicle for longer than six months, if you had not owned it for longer than six months in YOUR CASE only (or anyone else with a non EU import) would have to undergo an SVA type test in Spain (if there is indeed one available, some EU countries have stopped allowing non EU type approved vehicles period)
Your saving grace is you've owned it for six months so you are bringing it in under the personal import scheme, which has very relaxed rules/laws.
This in theory is the same for anyone who has owned an EU type approved vehicle that has owned it for six months, I assume the person who had to fork out 20,000 euros was bringing it in as an import (not a personal import, ie he/she hadn't owned it for six months)
Unless he has some crazy illegal modifications that anyone at an ITV would notice (like having it de-cat and have huge exhausts that have terrible emissions, changing the steering wheel for a non eu approvaed variety or without an airbag)
I believe your only issue will be if your vehicle does not pass a basic emissions test when it's ITV'd for its Spanish registration (as you have the headlamps situation sorted)
So to recap; unless you import a pre 97 vehicle from Japan then any modifications that go against the main factors of the car would need to be replace with original parts before an ESVA certificate would be issued, doesn't matter if a model report is available or not.
A model report is mearly a document which says for example the emissions and noise levels SHOULD be, so if the vehicle has a after market exhaust or has been de-cat then those figures would be wrong and thus could not legally pass an ESVA test as the figures wouldn't match up, this is not to say some don't fall thru the net.
It's basicly the same as if you take your car into an MOT and your vehicle does not pass the emissions test against their set figures. If it doesn't it fails until you sort it, but with an MOT there is a much large leway with the figures than an ESVA test has.
This is the LAW wether or not the SVA test centre obeys but it is another matter, but as all but 1 of the SVA test centres in the UK are government owned and run you'd hope they would.
Secondly;
1> Your vehicle is pre '97 from what I remember so it has a basic 'does it have 4 wheels and an engine' SVA test
2> The SVA centre did something illegal by passing your vehicle with a KMH speedo (the odometre can still record in KMH tho)
3> Your vehicle does not come with an EU spec/approval, it's officialy classed as a grey import that has passed a very basic of basic SVA test to gain registration. So it has passed what the UK (not the EU) says it considers legal, this is NOT recongized throughout the EU.
The UK registration (and SVA) bears no meaning or relevance when registering a vehicle in another member state when registering the vehicle as an import (not a personal import)
The UK V5 is purely evidence that you've owned the vehicle for longer than six months, if you had not owned it for longer than six months in YOUR CASE only (or anyone else with a non EU import) would have to undergo an SVA type test in Spain (if there is indeed one available, some EU countries have stopped allowing non EU type approved vehicles period)
Your saving grace is you've owned it for six months so you are bringing it in under the personal import scheme, which has very relaxed rules/laws.
This in theory is the same for anyone who has owned an EU type approved vehicle that has owned it for six months, I assume the person who had to fork out 20,000 euros was bringing it in as an import (not a personal import, ie he/she hadn't owned it for six months)
Unless he has some crazy illegal modifications that anyone at an ITV would notice (like having it de-cat and have huge exhausts that have terrible emissions, changing the steering wheel for a non eu approvaed variety or without an airbag)
I believe your only issue will be if your vehicle does not pass a basic emissions test when it's ITV'd for its Spanish registration (as you have the headlamps situation sorted)
So to recap; unless you import a pre 97 vehicle from Japan then any modifications that go against the main factors of the car would need to be replace with original parts before an ESVA certificate would be issued, doesn't matter if a model report is available or not.
A model report is mearly a document which says for example the emissions and noise levels SHOULD be, so if the vehicle has a after market exhaust or has been de-cat then those figures would be wrong and thus could not legally pass an ESVA test as the figures wouldn't match up, this is not to say some don't fall thru the net.
It's basicly the same as if you take your car into an MOT and your vehicle does not pass the emissions test against their set figures. If it doesn't it fails until you sort it, but with an MOT there is a much large leway with the figures than an ESVA test has.
This is the LAW wether or not the SVA test centre obeys but it is another matter, but as all but 1 of the SVA test centres in the UK are government owned and run you'd hope they would.
All FTO's arrive in the UK with km speedos and are never changed unless the owner decides to have them de restricted and changed to mph.
Yes, it is a grey import but it still complies with EU requiremnents. These cars are now in Holland, France, Spain, Malta, Greece, Cyprus, Germany, Sweden and mostly in extremely modified forms but still falling into legal emmissions.
My car is decat, but doesn't require one generally as its 1995.
There are thousands and thousands of these grey imports in the EU now and the UK manufacturers have always tried to scare people off by telling them of costly changes. Its never been the case.
Its a little wierd talking about car noise emissions relating to Spain isn't it
Still, we'll see soon what happens. If mine makes it through then any car should
Oh & by the way Dxf, its worth taking note of what Zel says, he knows his stuff
Sep 11th 2006, 12:43 pm
#35
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 987
Re: mot a car
Sorry mate, but I know for a 10000000000% fact that the SVA test SHOULD fail in the UK unless an MPH speedo or fascia is installed, as it should if you have an MOT with an KMH speedo (I say speedo as in how fast you're going, not how many miles/kms you've travelled)
I mean this is common sense, your car is in an MPH country, by law you should be able to tell how fast you're going in MPH to avoid speeding etc etc (this can be out +/- by 4%)
It should also fail if you've not had a fuel hole restrictor installed (for sva, not mot)
These are strict laws and with the quite litterly thousands of Japanese (and Asian) imports we've done in the past and still doing, we've absolutely 100% had to change the speedo to MPH and fuel tanks (we don't do the restrictor caps as it looks ametuerish) in every single car. Even the ones when the old SVA loophole was around needed it done, by law.
As for an SVA being accepted in foreign countries is simply not true. Now having a valid UK registration is. Say for example you got your vehicle through and SVA test had the certificate, did not register it in the UK, took the SVA cert with you to any other EU country, you would STILL have to have done their version of an SVA - now some EU countries (such as Germany) this just requires an extended TUV (mot) seeing that it's pre'97
Saying this there are SOME countries that accept SVA/ESVA standards, Hong Kong, Australia, New Zealand (soon), Cyprus are the countries off the top of my head.
But it's strictly not true that an SVA is accepted policy across the EU, a valid UK V5 is and so is ownership for six months or more.. but not an SVA certificate is not.
It gets TEN TIMES more complex across the EU if your vehicle is post '98 and even more complex post 2003 So thank your lucky stars!
I'm also pretty sure i mention in the previous post and if i didn't make it clear, you can bring modified japanese vehicles into the UK pre '97, you can bring modified post '98 cars into the UK only under the personal import scheme (ie 6 months of ownership) as this only needs the basic SVA (anything else needs an ESVA and model reports and to be original. That's why if you've ever been to the port or an SVA test cente have a look in the carparks and you will see cars there with replacement exhausts/etc sitting in the back or in the container.
On a personal note to your circumstances, I assume Spain follows other EU countries when it comes to grey imports and has much higher emissions levels for pre'97 imports, so even without a cat as you've said you SHOULD be ok, but this is Spain, they don't seem to tow the EU line when it comes to car registrations
You should also note (as something to back what im saying up that isn't from me) check the other site you're mod on under the portugese section, there are several people there who have grey import vehicles and having a complete nightmare to gain registration.
I mean this is common sense, your car is in an MPH country, by law you should be able to tell how fast you're going in MPH to avoid speeding etc etc (this can be out +/- by 4%)
It should also fail if you've not had a fuel hole restrictor installed (for sva, not mot)
These are strict laws and with the quite litterly thousands of Japanese (and Asian) imports we've done in the past and still doing, we've absolutely 100% had to change the speedo to MPH and fuel tanks (we don't do the restrictor caps as it looks ametuerish) in every single car. Even the ones when the old SVA loophole was around needed it done, by law.
As for an SVA being accepted in foreign countries is simply not true. Now having a valid UK registration is. Say for example you got your vehicle through and SVA test had the certificate, did not register it in the UK, took the SVA cert with you to any other EU country, you would STILL have to have done their version of an SVA - now some EU countries (such as Germany) this just requires an extended TUV (mot) seeing that it's pre'97
Saying this there are SOME countries that accept SVA/ESVA standards, Hong Kong, Australia, New Zealand (soon), Cyprus are the countries off the top of my head.
But it's strictly not true that an SVA is accepted policy across the EU, a valid UK V5 is and so is ownership for six months or more.. but not an SVA certificate is not.
It gets TEN TIMES more complex across the EU if your vehicle is post '98 and even more complex post 2003
So thank your lucky stars!I'm also pretty sure i mention in the previous post and if i didn't make it clear, you can bring modified japanese vehicles into the UK pre '97, you can bring modified post '98 cars into the UK only under the personal import scheme (ie 6 months of ownership) as this only needs the basic SVA (anything else needs an ESVA and model reports and to be original. That's why if you've ever been to the port or an SVA test cente have a look in the carparks and you will see cars there with replacement exhausts/etc sitting in the back or in the container.
On a personal note to your circumstances, I assume Spain follows other EU countries when it comes to grey imports and has much higher emissions levels for pre'97 imports, so even without a cat as you've said you SHOULD be ok, but this is Spain, they don't seem to tow the EU line when it comes to car registrations
You should also note (as something to back what im saying up that isn't from me) check the other site you're mod on under the portugese section, there are several people there who have grey import vehicles and having a complete nightmare to gain registration.
Last edited by zel; Sep 11th 2006 at 1:02 pm.
Sep 11th 2006, 3:49 pm
#36
Senior Moment
Joined: Jan 2006
Location: On the edge
Posts: 20,460
Re: mot a car
Originally Posted by zel
Sorry mate, but I know for a 10000000000% fact that the SVA test SHOULD fail in the UK unless an MPH speedo or fascia is installed, as it should if you have an MOT with an KMH speedo (I say speedo as in how fast you're going, not how many miles/kms you've travelled)
.
.
Yes, newer cars are a problem. Theres a guy in the UK with a 1998 car who cant get a SVA for two years!
Ahh ... we'll see what happens soon ... I'll keep you informed
Sep 11th 2006, 3:54 pm
#37
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 987
Re: mot a car
Originally Posted by Mitzyboy
Being silly, I am .... they are km speedos with mph on the inner ring!! That explains it
Yes, newer cars are a problem. Theres a guy in the UK with a 1998 car who cant get a SVA for two years!
Ahh ... we'll see what happens soon ... I'll keep you informed
Yes, newer cars are a problem. Theres a guy in the UK with a 1998 car who cant get a SVA for two years!
Ahh ... we'll see what happens soon ... I'll keep you informed
On the subject of your friend I can give you the number of the SVA specialists (also a test centre) to see if there's anything they can do for you friend?
This centre is the only one that is NOT governmently owned (just approved) so they tend to employ staff that know what they're doing and keep upto par with changes.
Lemme knoe and i'll PM it to ya.
Sep 11th 2006, 6:21 pm
#38
Senior Moment
Joined: Jan 2006
Location: On the edge
Posts: 20,460
Re: mot a car
Originally Posted by zel
Good one mate, I'm keeping everything crossed but i'm confident you'll be fine!!
On the subject of your friend I can give you the number of the SVA specialists (also a test centre) to see if there's anything they can do for you friend?
This centre is the only one that is NOT governmently owned (just approved) so they tend to employ staff that know what they're doing and keep upto par with changes.
Lemme knoe and i'll PM it to ya.
On the subject of your friend I can give you the number of the SVA specialists (also a test centre) to see if there's anything they can do for you friend?
This centre is the only one that is NOT governmently owned (just approved) so they tend to employ staff that know what they're doing and keep upto par with changes.
Lemme knoe and i'll PM it to ya.
Sep 14th 2006, 2:19 pm
#39
Forum Regular
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 69
Re: mot a car
Slightly off topic, but I am debating whether it will be more profitable to sell my car in the UK before moving, or to take it over and sell it in Spain as I believe second hand cars hold value well over there.
Would there be a market for an RHD prestige car I wonder?
Any advice much appreciated.
Would there be a market for an RHD prestige car I wonder?
Any advice much appreciated.
Sep 14th 2006, 2:20 pm
#40
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 987
Re: mot a car
Originally Posted by hrothgar
Slightly off topic, but I am debating whether it will be more profitable to sell my car in the UK before moving, or to take it over and sell it in Spain as I believe second hand cars hold value well over there.
Would there be a market for an RHD prestige car I wonder?
Any advice much appreciated.
Would there be a market for an RHD prestige car I wonder?
Any advice much appreciated.
In Spain there is no market for any RHD if that's what you mean?
Usealy a rule of thumb is only worth taking a RHD car to a LHD country if it makes sense finanicaly for you, as it really is a pain in the backside long term driving a RHD car in a LHD country.
You'll find that across europe pre-owned vehicles tend to hold their value more than the UK, as we're a society of must have new or can't have old, much like the Americans. So the value of pre-owned vehicles gets hit hard.
Last edited by zel; Sep 14th 2006 at 2:24 pm.
Sep 14th 2006, 2:58 pm
#41
Forum Regular
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 69
Re: mot a car
Originally Posted by zel
In Spain there is no market for any RHD if that's what you mean?
Sep 14th 2006, 3:12 pm
#42
Concierge
Joined: May 2006
Location: ex ex-pat, in Taunton
Posts: 27,216
Re: mot a car
Originally Posted by hrothgar
Slightly off topic, but I am debating whether it will be more profitable to sell my car in the UK before moving, or to take it over and sell it in Spain as I believe second hand cars hold value well over there.
Would there be a market for an RHD prestige car I wonder?
Any advice much appreciated.
Would there be a market for an RHD prestige car I wonder?
Any advice much appreciated.
Sep 14th 2006, 3:14 pm
#43
Concierge
Joined: May 2006
Location: ex ex-pat, in Taunton
Posts: 27,216
Re: mot a car
Originally Posted by zel
Depends on what the vehicle is and the age really..
In Spain there is no market for any RHD if that's what you mean?
Usealy a rule of thumb is only worth taking a RHD car to a LHD country if it makes sense finanicaly for you, as it really is a pain in the backside long term driving a RHD car in a LHD country.
You'll find that across europe pre-owned vehicles tend to hold their value more than the UK, as we're a society of must have new or can't have old, much like the Americans. So the value of pre-owned vehicles gets hit hard.
In Spain there is no market for any RHD if that's what you mean?
Usealy a rule of thumb is only worth taking a RHD car to a LHD country if it makes sense finanicaly for you, as it really is a pain in the backside long term driving a RHD car in a LHD country.
You'll find that across europe pre-owned vehicles tend to hold their value more than the UK, as we're a society of must have new or can't have old, much like the Americans. So the value of pre-owned vehicles gets hit hard.
Sep 14th 2006, 3:38 pm
#44
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 987
Re: mot a car
Originally Posted by mikelincs
Also here on the Costas, cars last a lot lnger, certainly as regards bodywork, as they don't have to salt the roads, the cause of the major body rot problems in the UK.
I suspect it's one of those myths people like to believe when they're moving to Sunnier pastures It used to be true for sure, but anything built since approx '97/98 which conforms to EU directives will not rot/rust for many a year.
One could say that Spanish cars actually hold more of a risk to premature rotting than cooler climate countries as the intense heat can crack paintwork and then the nature salts in the air (especially if you live in the costas / coastal areas can get in under that and cause havok)
But even that is somewhat rare, the only time you will see a 'newish' vehicle rot is if it's had bad repair work or is of the asian variety whom do not have such strict regulations.
I agree tho it's nice to think of that when you're shelling out more money in Spain for the same vehicle in the UK just to have the steering wheel on the other side
but in reality it's not true 
Spain (and Portugals for that matter) prices are basicly purely down to an under developed market compared to the rest of Western Europe.
Last edited by zel; Sep 14th 2006 at 3:55 pm.
Sep 14th 2006, 3:56 pm
#45
Forum Regular
Joined: Aug 2006
Location: locating to spain
Posts: 279
Re: mot a car
Hi Guys,
I have a Mitsubishi l200 on a 03 plate and i will be bringing it to Spain? the Windows are blacked out the back ones really blacked out and the two front are the the darkest you can have for the front in the uk? also i have three TVs two in the back head rest and one at the front that flips up with the stereo? will this be a problem? also to register this over in Spain what will i have to do? i am going to put a full years mot and 12 months tax before i come over and try and drive it for as long as i can before i have to change it over does any one know the cost involved all help will be appreciated?
Thanks All
Emma
I have a Mitsubishi l200 on a 03 plate and i will be bringing it to Spain? the Windows are blacked out the back ones really blacked out and the two front are the the darkest you can have for the front in the uk? also i have three TVs two in the back head rest and one at the front that flips up with the stereo? will this be a problem? also to register this over in Spain what will i have to do? i am going to put a full years mot and 12 months tax before i come over and try and drive it for as long as i can before i have to change it over does any one know the cost involved all help will be appreciated?
Thanks All
Emma