steviedeluxe

No, it's not the fear of running out of petrol (that was last week's panic). It's Spain again.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/money/mar...s-concern.html

I particularly like this line
Would that be RBS, HBOS, Lloyds or Northern Rock, who feel capable of dealing with a crisis?

Will we see Spain leave the Euro this year? If they do, then the new devalued currency will surely mean most Brits are better off in Spain (the value of their UK pensions, savings etc would rise)? It's the local Spanish who would lose purchasing power of their currency, but theoretically have better chances of paid work.

Domino

Spain will not leave the Euro - they are in a far better position than Greece, Portugal and probably Italy. And don't forget Irelands problems.
I see this as scandal mongering by people wanting make a quick profit on currency and share movements, none of which effects the man and woman on the street.

Try looking at the indebtedness of France and even Germany which is not being talked about - they are not squeeky clean by a long shot.

Reduce the scandalmongering and get back to making all countries in the Eu the powerhouse they were a decade ago and should be now

Fred James

Well if it's in the Daily Mail it must be right.

I shall start packing right away.

amideislas

With all due respect.. powerhouse?

Well, one could argue that the good economy the Eurozone enjoyed a long time ago was also spent long ago. It's not hard to spend it all when you have a 35 hour work week, generous benfits and entitlements, business increasingly difficult and expensive due to an increasingly strict regulatory environment, and an extremely overpriced currency, making European goods increasingly expensive in the world market.

Sure, all those regulations and entitlements were very nice sentiment. Unfortunately, somebody has to pay for it, and nobody thought about what happens should the economy go bust. So now, the focus is on cutting back all those benefits and raising already high taxes, but little emphasis on growing the economy. It's no secret that growth isn't expected to return anytime in the foreseeable future, and quite possibly never again.

Powerhouse? Not really.

bobd22

Good points re the EU regulation they seem to be just pricing themselves by regulations out of the market and as you say strong Euro doesn't help. Germany and France level of debt surely that's what this is all about for the likes of Greece etc, making sure the German French banks don't go under irrespective of the cost to them. This is I suppose where the UK comes in with Spain due to loans etc to Spain mortgages etc be higher than that to Greece for the UK hence no doubt why UK was so willing to help out Ireland. One thing that probably is correct in article the problems with the Euro won't go away and I don't think so far anyone as the answer.

steviedeluxe

Another article, this time stating that Spain can survive the crisis.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisf...pain-recession

jackytoo

After reading it I am inclined to think that Spain cannot survive the crisis. He doesn't make a good case for the statement Written by
Luis Garicano is professor of economics and strategy, London School of Economics and editor of nadaesgratis.es, a popular blog on the Spanish

No bias there then.

steviedeluxe

Oh come on Jacky - we all know you here. There's barely a day goes by without your knocking Spain, telling us the people hate Brits, coffee costs 2Euros etc etc etc.

Please don't pretend you are suddenly edging to "inclining to think" based on a link. We all know your poor opinion of Spain, and your glee when you find an article finding something bad about the place.

Dick Dasterdly

I don't think Prof Luis Garicano has a really good grasp of the Spanish situation and most of his dubious attempts to compare it with other countries don't hold much water in my book.

Much of Spains success over the past half century has been based on good fortune rather than good management.
Wether or not they can now knuckle down and graft their way out of this long standing crisis with no end in sight is a totally different kettle of fish.

jackytoo

Stevie FFS don't get childish At least I am not the saddo stuck in a place i don't want to be running down my home country. There must have been about 50 articles this week about Spain needing a bailout and I haven't mentioned any.

It's your topic now get back on it!!

steviedeluxe

It's my opinion (and I accept it is limited and anecdotal) that the Spanish are capable of overcoming huge burdens. I 've worked with many hard-working and efficient Spanish people both in the UK and in Spain. Furthermore their successes in various fields eg retail (Zara, Mango) sport (best football teams in the world) catering (all those Michelin-starred restaurants) railways (now starting to sell over the world) show that the Spanish can compete on a world footing.
Having said all that I feel that under the right conditions all countries can progress and do well. I don't see the Spanish as being particularly superior or inferior in that respect.

Domino

so what happened to the Celtic Tiger that is known to everyone else as Ireland/Eire ??
from boom to bust without even hearing the sonic boom

Eu and it countries were alright whilst the debt was floating along with people like Lehmans, now the Ponzi scheme has come to the top of the pile and people have been found out.

Every country in the Eu, not just the Euro, has been led astray by its politicians, with Bliar and Blown telling us its alright, not problems, the same in all other, the same elsewhere. Now the man on the street is having to pay the price whilst seeing the fat cats getting more cream and getting fatter.

The politicians will never dig the Eu out of it, too much up each other's backsides, especially the Merkozy pair.
It once again will have to come from that man in the street to roll up his shirt sleeves and dig everyone else out. Whilst seeing his pension deteriorating -- because the pension fund managerss cannot do the job they are being paid for whilst the FTSE is rising like a hot air balloon

Domino

agree, the Spanish are doing exceedingly well in non agro fields at the moment, against some of the best in the world
I hope it continues

and isnt it about time they started telling these idiots in the money markets about these successes

rugbymatt

The old insomnia has been plaguing me lately, which is always a good combination with 12 and 14 hour days of work and I have been watching the various "world news" pieces on the Beeb that they run during the night, they tend to be better reported than the usual dross that UK news forces down our necks and only the other night/morning they had an hour long piece on Spain and the direction its heading. It was really quite fascinating, one of the interviewees was a youngish guy who had mobilised his small town into adopting a new currency, one based on a sort of barter system that was exclusive to that area, pretty much everyone had signed up to it and of the several people interviewed, none now saw the Euro as a viable currency, almost to a man (woman) they wanted the peseta back.

During the piece they interviewed no end of "experts" and again, not one of them saw a future in the Euro, most were so pissed at the cock up that was being blundered through in Madrid and the EU. They had a large group of people on there who had formed a co-operative that was fighting the banks attempts to repossess their homes, there were thousands of them, one Spanish economist claimed on the program that Spain had more homes set to be repossessed than any other country in Europe and they were winning, the European courts were actually beginning to rule in their favour. What was interesting were the Spanish commentators who were critical of the Spanish press and their lack of reporting in any honesty and depth and the fact that none felt there was any option but to pull out of the Euro.

Disclaimer: There views may or may not express my own opinion, I am simply relaying the information that was presented to me by the reporters of the program.

steviedeluxe

I think the problem is that, the international successes don't compensate for the downbeat local economy and the deficits. For example Zara opening up shops in China, or Gamesa investing in Scotland and creating jobs there ( http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotlan...iness-17489118 ) - this doesn't alleviate the situation at home where unemployment levels are high. I think Spain needs to encourage yet more foreign investment at home, and that's why I think the casino plan could be a welcome boost.