More Leaving Than Arriving?
 

Ive lived in Spain for nearly four years and from what Ive seen in the last six months Ive noticed there seems to be more foreigners leaving than arriving, guess its down to the lack of employment/state of the world wide economy,Anyone else seeing this?

Rgds Rotor

Re: More Leaving Than Arriving?
 

Maybe its the whinging moaning feckers that are already there that is making people think twice?

Re: More Leaving Than Arriving?
 

The people leaving are, I think, those that arrived seeing things through rose coloured glasses, or who have no job, and expect to get one knowing no Spanish at all. We have relatives coming out at the end of July, so we will see how it goes for them, they are retired, so no jobs problems, they know NO SPANISH at all.

Re: More Leaving Than Arriving?
 

Not learning Spanish is ususally the big issue, you may get away with it if your retired/pensioned living in an ex pat resort like Marbella but if you need an income its virtually impossible to get regular work without speaking Spanish (its bloody difficult if you do!!)

Rgds


Rotor

Re: More Leaving Than Arriving?
 

were just embarking on are spanish adventure ,have a place in daya nueva ,have begun spanish lessons here in uk ,wife retires in 3 years max ,we,ll be in are early 50,s so i need to keep working just for the social side of life ,reading some of the e mails ,i get a picture of some people expecting to walk into a job straight away.i think where ever you live in the world you have to blend in with the local community .good luck to everyone embarking on thir place in the sun .viva espania tommorrow in the footy .

ps . its pissing down in manchester at present .mid june .mind you ive never seen it piss up .happy days !!!!

Re: More Leaving Than Arriving?
 

I would think this is mainly due to work problems and it will of course affect all foreigners in Spain. I cannot really think that any Brits would want to return to the UK unless it was for lack of work in Spain. Obviously there will be a few who fail to settle or have family problems but for life style Spain wins hands down IMO.
We have just spent another 2 weeks over there in an apartment and tried to live as we would if we were residents.We did our shopping at the local shops and cooked some of our meals instead of eating out every night. Our limited ( but improving) Spanish got us by and we felt really comfortable with the life style. We are both retired though and although our pensions are not great they should cover our monthly costs comfortably. We are certainly looking forward to moving to Spain.

Re: More Leaving Than Arriving?
 

I found that going onto E-Bay and buying all the episodes of GIVE US A CLUE worked wonders for my interaction with my Catalan shop and Restaurant keepers
I always draw quiet a crowd as I wave and gesture to the assistant or waiter as I put in my order. I never have any problem and always get what I want, I notice they seem to understand the order right away but let me go on for about 20 minutes just to make sure. They may extract the urine a little behind my back but afterwards as I draw away from the venue in my DB9 I give a little smile back as they become little spots in my rear view mirror and for a moment think hmmmmm I owe a lot to that Lionel Blair. :o

Re: More Leaving Than Arriving?
 

LOL ,VERY CLEVER AMIGO

Re: More Leaving Than Arriving?
 

They probably extract a little urine into your dinner too. ;-))

Re: More Leaving Than Arriving?
 

Well, if those that can't be bothered to integrate are starting to go home, it's no great loss IMO.

Re: More Leaving Than Arriving?
 

Very true - we as a nation are quick to complain about everyone here who doesnt try to intergrate.

Re: More Leaving Than Arriving?
 

Oh yes. We don't like it when Muslims, for an example come here and are determined not to integrate, and then we think we can go to Spain and not bother to even learn the language.

Re: More Leaving Than Arriving?
 

STAYED IN ROTA NEAR CADIZ ,LAST AUGUST .VERY SPANISH ,HAD TO MAKE A GOOD EFFORT TO COMMUNICATE .GOOD EXPERIANCE ,AND NICE PEOPLE .COULD NEVER GET THE WINE ORDER CORRECT AT THE BAR .ALWAYS ENDED UP WITH SHERRY .GREAT LOCAL SEA FOOD AT TAPAS BAR .NEAR TAXI RANK IN SQUARE

Re: More Leaving Than Arriving?
 

Steve, sorry to ask but could you please stop writing in block caps. Internet etiquette says you should not do that, as it is considered shouting.

http://www.patsabin.com/etiquette.htm

Re: More Leaving Than Arriving?
 

noted amigo

Re: More Leaving Than Arriving?
 

Re: More Leaving Than Arriving?
 

Well, I don't agree it is necessarily those who can't/won't integrate or who can't get a job who return.

We have been here as permanent residents since 2004 and are enjoying it, but in 2010 we will be living about 6/6 or 7/5 in UK/Spain.

This is not because either of the above reasons; we live in a very Spanish village and get on well with our neighbours, our Spanish is improving, and we are early retired and live on my husband's Teachers' Pension so don't need jobs.

It's just because we like the UK as well. We like it for different reasons than we like Spain; our UK house is on the outskirts of a large Midlands city which is so different to our village life in the Granadino sticks and so our lifestyle in the UK is totally different. We would like eventually to sample both lifestyles and time it to get advantage of the best of the weather in both countries.

The reason why it's going to be 2010 is that I have to wait until then to get my UK State Pension, which, with my husband's Teachers' Pension, will enable us to be able to afford to live in the UK for 6/7 months a year. We can't afford to do this at the moment.

However, I have indeed see people leave due to lack of money; eitther younger people who can't get jobs or early retirees whose plan is to live on capital until their pensions kick in who then run out of money.

But it's far from the only reason.

I'm actually in the UK at the moment and it has been grey and raining all day and the temperature is 11. It's Midsummer's Day!

Re: More Leaving Than Arriving?
 

Love the irony (it was irony wasn't it :confused:) However, as you are in Catalonia it probably wouldn't make much difference if you were completely fluent in spanish anyway. I'm finding that some locals prefer speaking to me in english than that 'foreign' castellano. Can't decide whether to sign up for the free catalan lessons or press on with the spanish.

As for more people leaving than arriving, I used to live in a tourist area in the UK. People came on holiday, loved the place, moved there and then sometimes found that living there all year round was not what they expected and moved away again. Normal for tourist places I think.

Rose

Re: More Leaving Than Arriving?
 

I think people are leaving Spain as they can't get a job & being that the wages are lower than in the UK. I would say that Spain is a nicer place to retire as the climate is warmer while Uk is always cold in the winter & expensive to live too.

Re: More Leaving Than Arriving?
 

Many return because they miss their families and friends or have just had enough of the stresses and strains that living in another country brings. Also the effort of earning a living using a different language can be quite wearing so some return to lessen that burden.

People change constantly and what suits at one point in time may not at a later date so moving on may be evitable.

Rosemary

Re: More Leaving Than Arriving?
 

alot of people come out here and think it is going to be like being on holiday well it is not you get alot that come out think that they are going to job wise is run a bar/cafe airport transfers work in bars painting and decorating jobs well i am afraid to say it is not going to happen in many cases the long hours low wages soon make them disillusioned aided with many not been able to get a job or any work they soon head back to the uk alot of people before heading to spain to live need to do a massive amount of homework before taking the gamble and into many cases they need to take the best advice and stick to having holidays in spain

Re: More Leaving Than Arriving?
 

I'd say that the UK has crap weather all the year round, with just enough nice weather to rub in how bad it really is.

Re: More Leaving Than Arriving?
 

Phew!!! Need to get my breath back now.

Re: More Leaving Than Arriving?
 

PMSL! That sums it up beautifully! :D

My pov is that:
I’ve lived in England for ever and a day and from what I’ve seen in the last six years I’ve noticed there seems to be more Brits leaving than arriving, guess its down to the lack of employment/state of the world wide economy, Anyone else seeing this?
Rgds TB

It’s down to half a dozen individuals’ pov, and it’s not a good guide.

I can cope with capital letters – never have understood the sensitivity to that. But… the machine gun blast of text with no caps, and no punctuation… Aaarrrggh! :eek:

Re: More Leaving Than Arriving?
 

In the UK it just seems to be that you are running faster and faster just to stand still, while some of the taxes and costs just seem to be taking the p*ss.

Then, when you get some free time, the weather isn't good enough to enjoy it most of the time.

Re: More Leaving Than Arriving?
 

Having not enough income and no good job prospects are reasons for many going back. Although a lot of Spanish people returning to Spain after living abroad, also end up leaving. For them it has nothing to do with the language as they are fluent, and in many cases they have jobs waiting for them (in family business etc). It is just that it is not for them.

I have alway said that Spain is not for everyone, not even the Spanish. My husband is not as settled as I am in Spain, he misses "home", the UK, which is not his home really, as he is Spanish born in Spain. I know he would rather live in the UK (but I am working on him)

I dont know where we will end up living for good.(which part of Spain) or UK. Forever is a long time.

Life is like owning a car, sometimes a racy sporty model is what you want, then a family saloon, then a work van etc. None are wrong, but right for the moment.

If we wnt back tomorrow I would not feel like a failure.

There are British people who are desperate to leave the UK, there are also Spanish people desperate to leave Spain. Who knows where these people will end up. With the right attitude you can be happy anywhere.

Re: More Leaving Than Arriving?
 

Being a true, died in the wool cynic, I'd change that to "With the right money you can be happy anywhere."

Mind you, with the wrong attitude you can be miserable anywhere.

Re: More Leaving Than Arriving?
 

Nothing cynical about that,just a straightforward statement of a universal truth!:)
Moneys doesnt necc bring happiness,but it takes the sting out of being miserable!:)
I think that with regard to people leaving,that appears to be true of everywhere.We live in an age where people are better informed than ever before,with satelite tv,internet etc,and there will always be people who think the grass is greener elsewhere,for some it turns out it is,for some it doesnt!:)

Re: More Leaving Than Arriving?
 

Not true, if that were the case, Christina Onassis would have made old bones. She was not short of a bob or two, but was so unhappy that she killed herself.
I know very poor people who are really happy. They are a joy to be around, I remember 2 of my grandmothers cousins, both widows, dirt poor,(and I mean SPANISH POOR, WHICH IS NOTHING LIKE UK POOR) living in the a small village in Galicia.
We went to visit and I was shocked that the floor of the house was compacted soil, this was about 12 years age. They spent a lot of time looking for firewood to store for the winter, because they could not afford to buy it.
They were such happy people, they have a wonderful attitude and although their life is hard, they are thankful for every day.
By the same token some of hubbys family, live high on the hog, loaded, and are the most miserable shower I have ever met.

Re: More Leaving Than Arriving?
 

It seems that money, language and failure to integrate are always the scapegoats here!?!?

We have no issues with either of these, least of all financial and are able to have a very high standard of living in the UK and in Spain. But Spain is just not sophisticated enough for us, social attitudes are primative. It is not interesting enough. Not a good enough fit for us. IMHO Spain is not long behind Britain in the rip-off stakes. Sure we love the summer, swimming and the beach in June, July, August, Polo season is fab. However we find winters very very dull and shopping depressing.

For retirees who golf or day or windsport fanatics who want to surf 24/7 I can see the attraction, but we are neither.

We will return permanently to the UK when the timing is right because our lives year round are fuller and more interesting. Not because of any defficiency in us.

Re: More Leaving Than Arriving?
 

Sorry me me, but you just aren't reading what I wrote.

Money buys health and a whole lot more to boot. It won't help you if you have the wrong attitude tho.

Read what I said again.

Re: More Leaving Than Arriving?
 

Well said Pugsy, You have hit the nail on the head.

Re: More Leaving Than Arriving?
 

Money does not buy health, mental or physical- When the big C is out to get you, no amount of money will help.(Patrick Sways).

The health money can buy, is not usually lifesaving, it is to make life a lot more comfortable.

Any serious complaint is usually foisted onto the National Health service anyway.

Re: More Leaving Than Arriving?
 

My folks said exactly the same thing. My mum bought a trouser suit in the sixties, and said that if she wore that in Spain she would be classed as a prostitute. My mum especially hated the Spanish attitude.
My grandfather was a strict man (although with me he was wonderful) he thought education for women was a waste of time).

Mum visited Spain when she had no other choice, but she would NEVER have returned to live here of her own free will. My brother thinks I am mental for coming here, and would rather have his nuts cut off than return (his words) My Dad thought the same.

I seem to be the only one in the family who loves both countries, the others are divided into 2 camps, they hate one and love the other.

Spain is less sophisticated than UK, no doubt about it.
Of course in the sixties the differences were more marked. There is still a huge difference in attitude, though.

I have tons of cousins in their 30 and 40s, not one of them have ever gone topless on a beach and would never do so. Not one has lived with a partner before marriage, not one has been a single parent.

Of course, some will say that we are goody goodies, but that is not true, just normal rural Galician people.

Re: More Leaving Than Arriving?
 

Good post Pugsy:)

I think the main reason for people returning is economic. Jobs are rubbish (if you can find one). The only decent paid jobs were in the property sales area and now that had slumped. I don't know anyone who doesn't work in one way or another servicing the Brit community. Now they are leaving it is a downward spiral.

Second reason as Pugsy said, Spain is not everyones ideal place. Being able to speak the language fluently does not suddenly change the place. Infact, the more fluent one gets the more aware you are that there are a lot of things that are crap in Spain.

Re: More Leaving Than Arriving?
 

I think whats coming out here,is that there are as many reasons for people to stay/go as there are people,its not as simple as "work/language" :)

Contrast MeMe's parents opinions,with the opinions of my parents,who where pretty keen to return to Spain!:)
They couldnt stand the antisocial attitudes in London!:)

Stay or go,depends on a lot of things;money,work,where you finish up in Spain,missing/not missing family,have you got any friends?Lifestyle,standard of living,ability to intergrate/speak the language,and probably a lot more besides :)

The question is so subjective,that it would be impossible to boil it down to, two or three simple reasons!:)

Re: More Leaving Than Arriving?
 

There was a woman on the BBC site yesterday, who lives over there in Spain, moaning about the price of food and general cost of living. She said she doesnt, and never will, eat spanish food and her British butcher costs a lot more. Made me want to headbutt the computer. Surely there is some sort of Spanish tv programme taking the peeeese out of us?

Note to self... learn spanish - write sitcom.

Re: More Leaving Than Arriving?
 

Money DOES buy health. Poor people have on balance worse health, and a shorter lifespan.

Money buys you access to the best doctors and the best treatment, and it does so very quickly.

Money is the most wonderful substance on the planet. It is pure crystalline freedom. A small amount buys you freedom from thirst, freedom from hunger. A large amount can even buy you freedom from justice.

Re: More Leaving Than Arriving?
 

Im not sure I'd agree Bil.
Without going too far into the story, I used to own a shipping company, and I did very well out of it. But to do that I worked all hours God sent, and although I was very well off I had no time to spend to myself apart from the once a year two week holiday, and I spent years afterwards battling with minor stress related illnesses.

So to get that money in this day and age you have to work so bloody hard ... and that in itself can make you ill. Money isn't everything. :)

Re: More Leaving Than Arriving?
 

Money does not buy health, the unemployed in any big city in the UK have the worst health. It is not lack of money, it is lack of ambition, routine to get out and jo a job, lack of hope that is the cause of most health problems. Most smoke and drink, they are the laziest cooks, they live on frozen pizzas, burgers and such and do not tax their bodies in any way.
The healthiest people are the ones that have stuck to the Medeterranean Diet. This is based on cheap fresh ingredients, and usually eaten by working people.
As for you saying that a small amount buys you freedon from thirst and hunger, that is true, but we are discussing EXPATS from a wealthy country, and the very fact that we are on a forum using internet and computers, means that we are not in such dire straights. We are not starving or dying of thirst.
As for access to the best doctors, you do have a point that money could be a factor, but that is not buying health, that is paying money to right the wrongs that have been done to the body. It is like closing the stable door after the horse has bolted. It may get you into the most expensive rehab clinic, but is the most expensive always the best.
Look how many stars have paid a fortune to go to the Betty Ford Clinic, only to fall of the wagon again and again.
With a terminal complaint no money on earth can fix that, cancer of the pancreas for example. The ones that belive that money is the solution to all problems are sadly mistaken. Money is great, it helps, mega money is better and helps more, but it is not a magic wand. The rich mother who loses a child is just as devasted as a poorer one. The sorrow is still the same in a mansion as a two bedroomed council flat.